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Hypothetical Situation - Could you be in my crew?

I think the OP was unprepared for the veracity of our disapproval for his intentions and now he's back-pedaling
Not sure where you think I'm "back-pedaling". Seems to me that you should go back and reread my posts in this thread, because I've been entirely consistent.
:rolleyes:

This thread has offically turned stupid.
No, it did that when I first posted it. It's a hypothetical scenario about a situation that can't happen. :p

But the responses have been enlightening, and somewhat disappointing, even though they mostly confirm what I already thought. People want a bright future like that shown in Starfleet, but we're sooooo cynical about everyone. How are we ever supposed to get there if we can never trust? Not me specifically. Anyone, really. :(

And I'm about as guilty of that as anyone. I'd want to be trusted, but I certainly wouldn't trust much of anyone else in the situation described. So I can't really blame those of you who wouldn't trust me, either.
I sure as hell don't want anything like the Fed or SF running everything as it does in the Trek'verse.
 
:rolleyes:

This thread has offically turned stupid.

I think it's gotten pretty interesting, actually, and evolved from a simple fun question into a rather complex philosophical issue.

As for myself... given the power granted by this scenario... my cellphone rings, as originally suggested, and I beam up to my own personal starship. What do I do with it? What would you do with it?

The power to obliterate all life on Earth.

The power to threaten to obliterate all life on Earth.

The power to transport materials from any point on Earth to any other point on Earth.

The power to replicate material goods for needy peoples.

And so on.

What to do? You might go with the most humanitarian of pursuits and try to fulfill the needs of the needy. Problem is, as with virtually any other decision made, there are unintended consequences. Charity has depressed third-world economies in many ways; people in the most remote parts of Africa wear old Hilfiger shirts because countless well-meaning charitable drives have taken our first-world cast-offs and donated them to the worse-off. The result? Local clothiers that eked out a living fabricating the native pre-charitable garb are now out of business.

To lend a hand to American farmers growing crops in an increasingly post-agrarian society, our government has decided to subsidize the farming industry with tax dollars in order to keep prices low and competitive on the global market. The result? Kenya, whose major export was cotton, has found it impossible to sell their cotton on the global market at a price competitive with our own, even given their extremely favorable exchange rate - they can't beat the price we sell it at, because much of the cost of our cotton is hidden in tax dollars.

So, you donate an industrial replicator to poor African countries. They may be able to replicate food and clothing, but what unintended harmful effects could this have on their economy/society/etc? Will they ever improve their standing now that they can simply materialize the fruits of their labor, minus the labor? You may say, 'nobody need labor any more! we can replicate whatever we want!' Okay, then who, for example, will keep the peace? Who could possibly want to work in the dangerous world of police work or firefighting when they can just sit around and have all their needs replicated for them? Etc, etc.

To quote Alan Moore's 'Watchmen' - 'We have labored long to build a Heaven, only to find it populated with horrors.'

Okay, you say, so charity is not as easy a pursuit as I might have imagined. What about enforcing peace on Earth by show of force?

The answer to this one is shorter and simpler: no power, real or imagined, will EVER hold dominion over a people indefinitely. You will find that there are those so deep in their convictions who will, even if those convictions only differ slighty from yours, fight until their dying breath to resist you, which means you'd better be willing to back up your show of force and be willing to kill. Kill millions. To serve as an example. This will ensure their obedience - for a generation or two. Then, they will find a way to swat your starship out of the sky. We humans are very clever, and very good at killing things.

I read a wonderful short story once by Robert Sheckley called 'Diplomatic Immunity', written in the 1960s. In the story, an alien ambassador appears on Earth in human form, at the White Hourse of course, to deliver a message of peace and prosperity, and to invite Earth to join a galactic union of peaceful planets.

As you would expect, the government will have nothing to do with this. Then they start trying to kill him, as he represents a threat to their power. Seems he's rather Q-like - he can change form at will. When they try tricking him into entering a room and then shooting flame-throwers into the room, he'll briefly turn into flame. When they try sending a man-eating tiger into the room, he turns into a tiger, and they play, as tigers do. Et cetera. No matter what threat they throw at him, he patiently puts up with it, and transforms himself INTO that threat to avoid harm.

Well, humanity won't accept this, of course. They bring the best and brightest minds together in order to find a way to stop the menace of galactic peace. Eventually, a scientist reasons that some sort of pattern must remain consistent in the alien's makeup no matter what he transforms himself into.

So here's what they do: They rig a chair to charged electrodes. When he sits down in it, he is electrocuted. Wires run from the chair to a specially designed box that is designed to add noise to, and scramble, the electrical signal that contains the Ambassador's 'form'.

It works. The Ambassador considers himself immune to harm, having a special sort of 'diplomatic immunity' (hence the story name), but is destroyed in the end by human ingenuity - because if anything is true about we humans, it is that we know how to kill and destroy and are very good at it. Their 'success' in the end promises that Earth will remain in isolation from the Galactic paradise that was offered them.

I imagine holding the world random by phaser bank would yield a similar result.
 
i had an awesome post, but i lost it. i doubt i can copy it word for word. but i`ll try. i too, have no prior military experience. & sadly, "we" would need security for this venture
 
I think it's gotten pretty interesting, actually, and evolved from a simple fun question into a rather complex philosophical issue.
Believe it or not, this was one of several things I intended when starting this thread. And, if it goes on, I've got another direction I'm going to throw it in eventually, too.

As to your post, while I agree that no power will ever hold sway forever, and therefore no single ruler or ruling body can bring an everlasting utopia, another question remains that I feel is more important: will we ever figure out a way to trust one another - even if that trust is because we have one another at the business ends of our weapons - to a point where we can really move past the wasted, conflicted, counterproductive things we are doing now, and really get to working on the really cool stuff that I think most of us really want? Bearing in mind that I don't mean "want enough to give up taking care of more essential things first", just that we want them, and wish we could free up the resources to do them. Which maybe we could, if we didn't have to worry about people wanting to do stupid stuff to people in addition to all of the natural adversaries (famine, plague, random asteroid strikes, etc) that we have to deal with anyway.

I think almost all of us would, for example, like a space elevator. Completely aside from utility, just taking a ride up and down once, and seeing everything you would see, would be quite an awesome experience. But, as it stands, people will kvetch about putting money into such when people are hungry and banks are failing and so forth. And even if we could get around that, terrorists would blow it up and create a huge, nasty, whipping cable that would leave devastation wherever it would strike.

I may, or may not, be on cold medication. :techman:
i had an awesome post, but i lost it. i doubt i can copy it word for word.
Man, I HATE it when that happens. I've had it happen often enough that sometimes, if I know I'm going to write a longer post, I'll open Word or Wordpad and compose it there and then paste it here.

BTW: while riding down the road the other day, I decided that I would use the ship's cargo replicators to build all the stuff necessary to just take the Earth along with us. So now you're ALL in my crew. Bwah ha ha ha ha!

;)
 
You'd essentially be Dr Manhattan - and in Watchmen that does not end well. Sadly superpowers (either supernatural or technological) will not solve mankind's fundamental problem that we are not terribly nice to each other.

If you remove people's weapons they will fight with their bare hands, if you feed the world they will forget how to feed themselves and die instaqntly when you leave, if you turn Africa into a temperate paradise the tribes would still fight for more of it.

I honestly think you would do a lot more harm than good - even meaning well.
 
thanks for the tip, mate. i was a lt com on here, but don`t get on enough to keep my rating. & i think i`ve changed names a couple times
 
firstly, i`d think "we`d" wanna keep her relatively close to earth. this, just in case something happens. there no doubt can be accidents associated with warp, & losing her would be desired. on the otherhand i`d certainly think some activity in outerspace would be quite necessary.
in my opinion, Earth-Moon Lagrange point 1 would be best place for her. something tells me a ship like this can`t land on a planetary surface. so, "parking" her closeby would seem to work. also, she would be "seen" from as i`ve been told an artifact there can be, actually i learned that on here. having her visible would dispel most notions of her being a hoax. also, she could be more easily reached by current tech. now course it`s possible some complain that she would obstruct our natural view of The Moon. though, i`d think the benefits would outweigh that. we`d certainly have all the views we`d ever want through subspace. & certainly i`d think an observatory would be setup on the lunar farside. though i`mn`t entirely sure if it would make difference whether or not subspace astronomy works that way. more later.
 
It goes against the entire morality statement that ST makes. Even if you best intentions are to elevate a culture, or improve a world, it interferes with its natural course of development... and your ship's too big for me, I like something cozy like a Miranda Class...
 
I would hide the ship before it can be spotted by anyone on earth, to avoid cultural contamination of just the existence of it. After that I would go behind the scenes to help the planet. "Natural" phenomena that just happen to improve conditions. Seed companies with bits of technology through planted employees. Things like fusion power technology, battery technology, materials technology.

The point is to accelerate advance without it being an apparent outside influence. This will minimize chances of societal collapse. It also preserves the planet's sense of selfworth.

If you just showed up with a starship and started handing out gifts the entire planet would grind to a standstill. Markets would crash, religions would fall, etc. What motivation is there if the shiney starship in the sky can do things better and faster than we can?
 
stationary platform in orbit that continuously uses transporters and sensors to confiscate any weapons more advanced than knives from the Middle East,

Why not from everywhere?

could I trust YOU to be a member of my crew, and actually follow a chain of command?

Absolutely NOT!

Or would you mutiny and try to take control of the ship?

Guess:
measbarbossa.jpg
 
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