At the risk of pitchforks and torches being broken out, allow me to make the heretical suggestion that the Terran Empire might go back much further than that, and be the descendant of a certain Evil Galactic Empire...?
Hypothetic Timeline of the Mirror Universe
- Thread starter EJA
- Start date
At the risk of pitchforks and torches being broken out, allow me to make the heretical suggestion that the Terran Empire might go back much further than that, and be the descendant of a certain Evil Galactic Empire...?
^ Not even the Terran Empire was as bad as the Galactic Empire. At least aliens were given *some* measure of ability to serve in the Terran fleet, and Vulcans ended up the near equals of humanity.
The Galactic Empire, on the other hand, was radically anti-alien to the point of utter xenophobia. Aliens were less than slaves to them. The GE didn't even consider aliens to be intelligent, let alone useful.
The Galactic Empire, on the other hand, was radically anti-alien to the point of utter xenophobia. Aliens were less than slaves to them. The GE didn't even consider aliens to be intelligent, let alone useful.
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In my view, I don't think there is any divergent point that separated the prime universe and the mirror universe. I think the MU is simply a brutal version of the Prime Universe. It is just the way that universe evolved.
On a related point, I wish The Next Generation had done the mirror episodes rather than Deep Space Nine. I would have loved to have seen an I.S.S. Enterprise D and the mirror versions of that crew. I think the Deep Space Nine mirror episodes were good, but over time they became cartoonish.
On a related point, I wish The Next Generation had done the mirror episodes rather than Deep Space Nine. I would have loved to have seen an I.S.S. Enterprise D and the mirror versions of that crew. I think the Deep Space Nine mirror episodes were good, but over time they became cartoonish.
IMO the Terran Empire had its origins in neither a) the Roman Empire, or b) Nazi Germany. The former is too far off in the past, and the latter just doesn't seem like the kind of thing to evolve into the Terran Empire somehow. That's why I like the idea that it grew out of a more militaristic, totalitarian USA.
I always liked DC's take for the Mirror Universe Saga personally: the mirror Earth had a similar history to the main Earth in the prime universe until the pre-Federation Romulan War, which the mirror Earth lost. The Romulans annexed it as a border world for about a decade until an armed resistance forced them off and freed Earth, but the resistance didn't simply disappear overnight. Some of its more vocal members laid the basis for what became a political movement, declaring that Earth would never suffer from alien tyranny again. Instead, humans would be the conquerors and the ones making their mark on the galaxy. Thus the Terran Empire arose.
I've been thinking maybe it was something like what happens in Harry Turtledove's Alternate History novel series, where the USA fought on the side of the German and Austro-Hungarian empires in World War 1, leading to a victory over Britain, France, etc. Maybe in the MU, as the years went by, the US and the empires grew more and more unified.
Shakespeare was almost identical, I believe. 
Anyway, I agree that the MU didn't branch off - it was always there, linked in some inexplicable fashion with our own, similarities always reappearing in some twisted way.
Kirk's intervention split the MU in two... one universe where the differences are expanding (fall of the Empire, rise of the Alliance, no Jake, somehow Vic is there...) and one universe where the similarities continue and the Terran Empire still dominates the quadrant.
Anyway, I agree that the MU didn't branch off - it was always there, linked in some inexplicable fashion with our own, similarities always reappearing in some twisted way.
Kirk's intervention split the MU in two... one universe where the differences are expanding (fall of the Empire, rise of the Alliance, no Jake, somehow Vic is there...) and one universe where the similarities continue and the Terran Empire still dominates the quadrant.
Shakespeare was almost identical, I believe.
Shakespeare is exactly identical between the two universes according to MU Dr. Phlox.
^ MU Phlox says that Shakespeare is "equally grim" in both universes, but he doesn't say it's exactly the *same*.
My theory is the mirror universe doesn't really exist in any meaningful way.
It is a temporary tear in the reality of space like the anti-matter universe or meeting other quantum realities. It appears to have a consistent timeline only because the characters remember or record the events from the perspective of the "good" universe and then these memories and expectations go into creating the layout during the next cross over.
I mean no technological advancement or conqueroring all other local space fairing races after having a working Constitution class starship and full computer core for over a century?
Amazing that the I.S.S. Enterprise saved the mirror universe from dozens of existential threats that presumably still would have occured as in the prime universe. That with a murderous and disfunctional crew, I don't buy it.
It is a temporary tear in the reality of space like the anti-matter universe or meeting other quantum realities. It appears to have a consistent timeline only because the characters remember or record the events from the perspective of the "good" universe and then these memories and expectations go into creating the layout during the next cross over.
I mean no technological advancement or conqueroring all other local space fairing races after having a working Constitution class starship and full computer core for over a century?
Amazing that the I.S.S. Enterprise saved the mirror universe from dozens of existential threats that presumably still would have occured as in the prime universe. That with a murderous and disfunctional crew, I don't buy it.
This is just a theory of mine, but I suspect the Terran Empire is descended from a version of Oliver Cromwell's Commonwealth of England that became more and more authoritarian. The reason the Terran Empire has a distinctly American flair is because Napoleon conquered Great Britain, forcing the commonwealth government to relocate to its American colonies that had somehow lost its bid for independence. In any event, the "American Commonwealth" took up a policy of manifest destiny to the extreme and ended up controlling half the world. The other half was dominated by Napoleon's Empire (I'll call it the European Coalition of Nations, ECON for short.) Fast forward to the 21st century, the American Commonwealth and the ECON nearly wipe each other out with nukes. After First Contact, the Commonwealth recovers first and conquers the remnants of the ECON. The Lord Protector declares himself the first Emperor of the Terran Empire and the rest is history...
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Shakespeare was almost identical, I believe.
Shakespeare is exactly identical between the two universes according to MU Dr. Phlox.
Ah, thanks. I'd forgotten that.
Our Picard, when visiting the MU, found Shakespeare almost identical.
I'd go to Phlox for medical advice but I think I'll go with Picard regarding Shakespeare, until I get a chance to read Mirror Shakespeare for myself.
Shakespeare was almost identical, I believe.
Shakespeare is exactly identical between the two universes according to MU Dr. Phlox.
Ah, thanks. I'd forgotten that.
Our Picard, when visiting the MU, found Shakespeare almost identical.
I'd go to Phlox for medical advice but I think I'll go with Picard regarding Shakespeare, until I get a chance to read Mirror Shakespeare for myself.
Assuming you're referring to the novel Dark Mirror, I thought they depicted MU Shakespeare as being very obviously different.
^ They did. The Mirror version of "Merchant of Venice" is directly quoted, and it's completely different.
And as I said, Phlox did NOT say (in IAMD) that Shakespeare was the same in both universes. He said "equally grim". Not the same thing.
Rojixus, in ST:FC, the ECON was originally supposed to be China. But all references to China were changed at the last minute, apparently because they didn't want to piss off the real China.
In any case, judging from the "Farpoint" courtroom scenes, it seems clear that the E in ECON was meant to be Eastern, not European.
And as I said, Phlox did NOT say (in IAMD) that Shakespeare was the same in both universes. He said "equally grim". Not the same thing.
Rojixus, in ST:FC, the ECON was originally supposed to be China. But all references to China were changed at the last minute, apparently because they didn't want to piss off the real China.
In any case, judging from the "Farpoint" courtroom scenes, it seems clear that the E in ECON was meant to be Eastern, not European.
There's also a line in First Contact where Picard tells Lily he isn't with the "Eastern Coalition," which many believe is what ECON is supposed to mean.
I also think there is no branching off point. The two universes have always been two sides of the same coin.
Branching of doesnt work anyway, because events isolated to earth like the rise or fall of a roman empire or nazi Germany shouldnt affect other species.
Vulcans, Denobulans, Ferengi and esspecially Bajorans behave differently, too. And I don't buy, that they are all evil just because Earth developed as a totalitarian empire.
Branching of doesnt work anyway, because events isolated to earth like the rise or fall of a roman empire or nazi Germany shouldnt affect other species.
Vulcans, Denobulans, Ferengi and esspecially Bajorans behave differently, too. And I don't buy, that they are all evil just because Earth developed as a totalitarian empire.
^ They did. The Mirror version of "Merchant of Venice" is directly quoted, and it's completely different.
And as I said, Phlox did NOT say (in IAMD) that Shakespeare was the same in both universes. He said "equally grim". Not the same thing.
Rojixus, in ST:FC, the ECON was originally supposed to be China. But all references to China were changed at the last minute, apparently because they didn't want to piss off the real China.
I'm well aware of that, that was supposed to be a tongue-in-cheek reference to the Eastern Coalition from the prime universe.
I used to think that the Terran Empire stretched back to the Roman Empire and simply had several periods of "quiet time" as I call it where nothing really happened. Basically it has epochs of historical transformation that eventually resulted in the version we see in "Mirror, Mirror". I like the idea that perhaps the modern part branched off from Edith Keeler's being alive and successful in her endeavors.
This is one possible explanation for the divergence cause.
[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kuav3mU9Jrk[/yt]
[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kuav3mU9Jrk[/yt]
I just read the first bit of the timeline that EJA referenced in his first post. I have to say that I like what I have read so far.
