Hulk comics: With or without Banner?

[Heeroyuy]

In the Hulk comics, on a few ocassions the persona of Bruce Banner has been written out with the Hulk able to stay 'transformed' for quite a while. Some examples:

-In the old Tales to Astonish serial sometimes Banner wouldn't show up for months. However the short nature of these stories might have had something to do with it.

-In the Crossroads saga, Banner 'died' in the Hulk's mind, causing the Hulk to go entirely mute and savage. It took more than a year for Banner to reemerge, in the classic issue which explored Banner's past.

-Although not quite as long, part of the Las Vegas saga had the Grey Hulk ("Joe Fixit") in full control, even during the daytime.

-Perhaps longest was in the majority of the 90s, where the Hulk was "merged" into the "professor" persona and didn't feel the need to turn back into Banner. Eventually he did turn back into Banner, but into a 'savage' form of Banner (Banner with the savage Hulk's mind)

-Banner also didn't really show up during the whole post-Onslaught verse as he was stuck in Heroes Reborn world and had become a second Hulk while the Hulk lived on as the Grayvage version in 'our' world. It's confusing, I know.

-Lately, Banner was absent during a good chunk of Planet Hulk and World War Hulk, although he still appeared mainly in the Hulk's mind.

The opposite was true mainly during Bruce Jones's run-in those comics, it was mainly Banner who was the hero and the Hulk appeared less often (and was often mute)-an attempt of sorts to do an update of the Bixby/Ferrigno show.

So is Hulk a more interesting character without changing back into Banner (As "Planet Hulk" was definetly well-received) or is Banner needed to sort of give the whole Jekkyl/Hyde feel to the series?

 

[Trent Roman]

Banner without Hulk is lame, Hulk without Banner is blind. Frankly, I think that if you take away one or the other persona too much, you lose the underlying pathos of the character, the self-loathing, or at least the sense that you can't trust yourself.

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman

 

[Davros]

The grey Hulk period was my favorite time in the title. Banner was rarely if ever seen.

 

[LaxScrutiny]

Focusing on Banner gives a comic about a guy who desperately is trying to stop being the title character. It's like if Detective Comics was about Bruce Wayne going to a psychiatrist every issue to cure him of these nocturnal urges...

I got bored of the 80's Hulk which was "Hulk like bunny rabbit! Stupid train scare bunny rabbit!! Hulk smash train!!!"

I liked Joe Fixit, I like a Hulk that can string a sentence together, and if he isn't a nuclear scientist, he at least can have a cunning plan that isn't clear until the last page of the comic. Planet Hulk, yes. World War Hulk, not bad but also maybe as a character too little hope, just "Fuck it, let's destroy everything."

 

[Davros]

The Hulk was pretty crafty in his early years. In the first issue of the Avengers, he was outwitting Pym and Stark.

 

[Mr Light]

My introduction to Hulk was the intelligent 90s Peter David version so that's what I always think is the proper version. Hulk as a mindless beast isn't interesting in a starring role, only as a supporting character to come along and smash **** up occasionally.

 

[Red Ranger]

Growing up, the Hulk was my favorite comic book. I grew up with the Hulk as the occasionally guileless creature with a heart of gold and a serious anger management problem. But I have to admit, I really liked the gray Hulk a hell of a lot, because he used his cunning as well as his strength to outwit his opponents -- and he was funny, too! Much more interesting than "Hulk smash." I'd like to see that Hulk return on a permanent basis, only with the green Hulk's full power. The Professor/"merged" Hulk was pretty interesting, too. And definitely, Banner should always be prominently featured, as he's the everyman touchstone for the book. -- RR

 

[Mr Light]

How did the Peter David version go back to being a mindless savage, anyway? And I was always confused about his World War Hulk version as well, this one was completely intelligent but also blood thirsty and violent.

 

[Heeroyuy]

Real world wise,Marvel has a tendency to reset things back to the status quo, witness the One More Day/Brand New Day Spider-Man thing.

Comic-wise, the explanation is that Banner has a multiple personality disorder, and the Hulks represent his repressed emotions. At this point in the comics (and this also happened in the Paul Jenkins run) he can 'rotate' the Hulks, as seen in the recent Vegas arc where he was once again Joe Fixit.


The Planet Hulk/World War Hulk persona is what fans have coined the "Greyvage" Hulk. Basically, it's when the Hulk is kind of intelligent, but with green skin and a savage streak. This Hulk pops up from time to time-he was pretty much the way Stan Lee originally wrote the Hulk (Before reverting to
"Hulk smash")

 

[Captain Craig]

The first Hulk I was introduced to was the 80's cartoon and he was the savage, low grammer green skinned version.
The first Hulk in the comics I was introduced to was in Web of Spiderman #44. I had really gotten into Spidey and he was the only character I get on my allowance so imagine my shock as an 11yr old to see the Gray Hulk calling himself Mr.Fixit. My allowance was increased soon and I started getting Hulk, this Gray Hulk who was more calculating, sinister and interesting than "Hulk Smash".

I followed Hulk through the 'Professor' years and then when Marvel cancelled it for a new #1 I left Hulk in disgust at the renumbering as much as anything. I've read over half the Bruce Jones stuff and Banner with little Hulk was actually interesting for awhile.

The Planet Hulk/WWH material is some of the best stuff in recent Hulk history.

Concluding WWH we have a new dillema. A Savage Green Hulk(still waiting to know how smart WWH became Savage Hulk) that still needs some explaining. Plus this Red Hulk that I am still hoping has a Banner psyche tie. Otherwise it will be a let down. I see Red Hulk as having a Venom-esque possibility to the character. The worst parts of Banner merged with something to create Red Hulk. I think tying Red Hulk into that battle with WWH Hulk vs Sentry is the door to be taken.

Real world wise,Marvel has a tendency to reset things back to the status quo, witness the One More Day/Brand New Day Spider-Man thing.

Also witness the marked decline in readership of the book. Way sharper than any normal bleeding books have taken. Its clear that this "status quo" isn't a status being widely accepted. In March ASM hit its lowest single issue sale at 58K. Last March '08 it was selling 85K and in March '07 137K. Spidey can't even be considered the flag ship title at this time on a per issue basis. They have to sell 3 issues a month to inflate the ASM bottom line.

 

[coolghoul]

How did the Peter David version go back to being a mindless savage, anyway? And I was always confused about his World War Hulk version as well, this one was completely intelligent but also blood thirsty and violent.

I think some otherworldly encounter was involved. I remember reading the Peter David Hulk Visionary trade and the grey hulk fights this magical demon-like entity (trying to recall if Doc Strange was also present or not) and then it ends with a green Hulk coming out of the gray hulk with a green scar (literally) on his back. I always wondered whether the Planet Hulk title of "The Green Scar" was referring to this period.

Edit: Just wanted to state that I'm a big fan of Planet Hulk. I think the Hulk is interesting in all his guises. Tho' reading back-to-back of the "boohoo" Hulk can become a little tiring (it happens when you're reading the Marvel Essentials line of Hulk reprints).

 

[Mr Light]

I've only read the first trade of the new Hulk series, but I'm convinced that Rulk is General Ross. He's had long term exposure to gamma radiation, he uses SHIELD guns, he's not afraid to kill villains, his eye-ID was recognized by the SHIELD gate, and he really hates the Hulk. Also when Rulk attacks the SHIELD Helicarrier, one second Iron Man has his back turned to Ross and some SHIELD agent... the next second Rulk punches him in the back, and that agent is later found dead! Now at the end of the trade we "see" Ross and Samson standing over Rulk but I think that's a hallucination. Interestingly you can see Samson's feet but NOT Ross'!