How would you renovate that Dyson Sphere?

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Nearly everybody knows of the Dyson Sphere that the USS Enterprise-D encountered and managed to rescue Scotty of the original USS Enterprise from. That story is of legends.

But assuming that the UFP now decides to "Take Over" & "Colonize It", what changes would you make to it?

I'm assuming that stabilizing the Star and making sure that it burns bright and steady for billions of years on end is going to be done and happen by one team of scientists and engineers.

One caveat, Neutronium can't be replicated in mass like other replicated goods, it has to be made the old fashioned way that you make other metals, basically laborious and takes lots of factories, lots of energy (plenty of that from the local Star), even with automation and robots doing the work. So whatever you do with Neutronium, please treat it like the special, rare, and valuable resource that it should be.

Now, how would you go about renovating the Dyson Sphere in your image?

Building a new Dyson Sphere, even with massive automation, would take Thousands of years. So it's past the span of your life time. A few thousand years is miniscule for Geological Time, but for us mortal humans, we want things done ASAP.

So what would you do to renovate the Dyson Sphere? What is your end goal, what is the greater purpose when you renovate it. How would you use it, what would you use the Dyson Sphere for?

 

[Dumbbell]

I think the major problem is its gravity well.

We could assume that all energy and matter sources within the original solar system, perhaps even some of the star itself, were used to make the sphere.

Leaving celestial objects of the former solar system, even dust, out there would invite disaster after having altered the gravity well of the solar system by generating a Dyson sphere with an enormous gravity well. We could not afford massive impacts of solar bodies, nor could we afford the gradual accumulation of mass, such as a solar system’s total amount of dust, over an extended period of time.

In view of the crashed Jenolan on the sphere’s surface, it would seem that the sphere has no countermeasure to accumulating mass over time, and no repair system. The crashed ship remained on the damaged outer hull of the sphere for about 75 years, with no rescue or repair of either the ship or the sphere.

Problematically, without retaining orbiting celestial objects of the original solar system, the protection these would have offered by means of their own gravitational fields to deflect and absorb foreign matter and energies out there that could pose a threat to the sphere would be gone.

So, it seems we have a mass that generates a huge gravity well and that will continue to accumulate mass, which will increase its gravity allowing it to accumulate more mass, which will… until it loses balance and can no longer sustain itself. Not to mention the threat of a neighboring star that caused its creators to abandon it.

I think I would have done just what Star Fleet did: send a couple science ships to investigate it, and leave it at that.

Now, if it were truly abandoned, we could begin salvage operations, maybe even restore the solar system to a model of its original self with a habitable planet that could be colonized.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

In view of the crashed Jenolan on the sphere’s surface, it would seem that the sphere has no countermeasure to accumulating mass over time, and no repair system. The crashed ship remained on the damaged outer hull of the sphere for about 75 years, with no rescue or repair of either the ship or the sphere.

The original species that built the Dyson Sphere is long extinct, so whatever automation system they had for cleanup and repair, is probably turned off by that point, broken, or inactive for whatever reason.

So, it seems we have a mass that generates a huge gravity well and that will continue to accumulate mass, which will increase its gravity allowing it to accumulate more mass, which will… until it loses balance and can no longer sustain itself. Not to mention the threat of a neighboring star that caused its creators to abandon it.

It wasn't a neighboring star that threatened the lives of the creators of said Dyson Sphere, otherwise the Dyson Sphere would've been busted up instead of a solid intact piece.

Now, if it were truly abandoned, we could begin salvage operations, maybe even restore the solar system to a model of its original self with a habitable planet that could be colonized.

We would have to figure out how far back in time they built the Dyson Sphere, and then figure out what the Star System looked like. Figuring that out might not be worth the resources to do so.

Restoration of the Star System would be spending more energy and resources on a massive scale, why not just renovate the existing Dyson Sphere and start colonizing it?

 

[Dumbbell]

I think it was an unsustainable system, especially since its star became unstable. Apparently, its creators also believed as much and abandoned their creation.

If they could not stabilize the star, it would be doubtful that the Federation could. So, renovation and colonization would seem shortsighted.

But it would make for a much better story.

Let’s say the Federation decided to renovate and colonized the sphere. It would be a race to find a way to stabilize the star and restore the sphere’s automated maintenance functions, assuming it had any.

There would be a whole universe to explore within the sphere. The land area would be the equivalent of 1.7 million United Federation of Planets worth of habitable planets to explore and discover, more than Federation, Klingon, Romulan, Cardassian, Dominion, and Borg planets put together and more!

Surely, others have found their way into the sphere and already colonized it since it was abandoned by its creators. No doubt they would exercise squatters’ rights.

And now that the Federation fixed the sphere and its star, what if the creators came back to claim what was theirs?

 

[valkyrie013]

Honestly, id like to see the sphere appear in discovery in the 32nd and a half century.
See if they colonized it after the burn. That would be interesting.

 

[Leathco]

Fire a Genesis device at it.

 

[Timo]

Do nothing? The place seemed fine despite the "extreme" radiation bursts. If those kill settlers, there's basically nothing to be done: if folks capable of building solid Dysons can't stop those (or were in fact responsible for creating those!), the UFP doesn't stand a prayer. If the bursts turn out to be irrelevant and/or the surface environment somehow protected from them, then UFP settlers could pitch tents or megapolises at will, choosing a location a few million kilometers from the nearest preexisting squatter village of the same sort.

For all we know, mechanisms to keep the place pristine still work perfectly, only not particularly fast; the Jenolan might have been dealt with in the next 3,000 years or so, or then the scrapes left by her will be gone in a mere additional century.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[publiusr]

Poor Bob Vila…yeah…spackle THAT.

 

[matthunter]

Star Trek Online deals with the sphere in more detail, as the Alliance discovers they are Iconian in origin. They also generate massive amount of Omega particles as fuel for instantaneous jumps across vast regions (in one instance, from Andromeda to the Milky Way!).

The Alliance uses two of the abandoned spheres as staging posts - the first is found through a fixed Iconian space gateway and is ~30,000 light-years into the Delta Quadrant. They have to fight a turf war over it with the Voth (who want Omega) and later Species 8472 (who want it for easy access to the Alpha Quadrant).

In shutting down the sphere's jump capability, they unwittingly open a space gate to another sphere deeper in the Delta Quadrant, which turns out to be the Jenolan sphere (having jumped there recently together with the Starfleet ship that was studying it at the time). This sphere becomes HQ for renewed contacts with the Delta Quadrant.

In both cases, it's made explicit that the Alliance has been able to map and repurpose only a tiny fraction of the spheres. Full investigation would take a lifetime or more.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Star Trek Online deals with the sphere in more detail, as the Alliance discovers they are Iconian in origin. They also generate massive amount of Omega particles as fuel for instantaneous jumps across vast regions (in one instance, from Andromeda to the Milky Way!).

The Alliance uses two of the abandoned spheres as staging posts - the first is found through a fixed Iconian space gateway and is ~30,000 light-years into the Delta Quadrant. They have to fight a turf war over it with the Voth (who want Omega) and later Species 8472 (who want it for easy access to the Alpha Quadrant).

In shutting down the sphere's jump capability, they unwittingly open a space gate to another sphere deeper in the Delta Quadrant, which turns out to be the Jenolan sphere (having jumped there recently together with the Starfleet ship that was studying it at the time). This sphere becomes HQ for renewed contacts with the Delta Quadrant.

In both cases, it's made explicit that the Alliance has been able to map and repurpose only a tiny fraction of the spheres. Full investigation would take a lifetime or more.

That's great that STO chooses that route, but assuming it doesn't have all that STO storyline behind it.

And assuming that the UFP/StarFleet will be able to stabilize the Star inside and make sure that the Dyson Sphere doesn't fall into the Star by going off axis, what would YOU do in terms of renovation?

And the builders of the Dyson Sphere didn't die-off because of the Star, but because of Non-Star related reasons?

 

[saddestmoon]

I’d bathe the sphere in Red Matter! Muhahaha!

 

[Stoo]

Star Trek Online deals with the sphere in more detail, as the Alliance discovers they are Iconian in origin. They also generate massive amount of Omega particles as fuel for instantaneous jumps across vast regions (in one instance, from Andromeda to the Milky Way!).

The Alliance uses two of the abandoned spheres as staging posts - the first is found through a fixed Iconian space gateway and is ~30,000 light-years into the Delta Quadrant. They have to fight a turf war over it with the Voth (who want Omega) and later Species 8472 (who want it for easy access to the Alpha Quadrant).

In shutting down the sphere's jump capability, they unwittingly open a space gate to another sphere deeper in the Delta Quadrant, which turns out to be the Jenolan sphere (having jumped there recently together with the Starfleet ship that was studying it at the time). This sphere becomes HQ for renewed contacts with the Delta Quadrant.

In both cases, it's made explicit that the Alliance has been able to map and repurpose only a tiny fraction of the spheres. Full investigation would take a lifetime or more.

ugh, that's just a list of fanservice references. Let me guess, then Kevin Uxbridge blows one up and the False God from Final frontier takes up residence in the other?

 

[matthunter]

ugh, that's just a list of fanservice references. Let me guess, then Kevin Uxbridge blows one up and the False God from Final frontier takes up residence in the other?

Nope. The Solanae (subspace aliens from TNG Schisms), Elachi (from ENT Silent Enemy) and the bluegill parasites (from TNG Conspiracy) do all show up as proxy races of the Iconians though.

Oh and the Vaudwaar from VOY Dragon's Teeth.

It's quite coherent though in terms of WHY the Iconians are using them, and how the Iconian arc is eventually resolved (since clearly you can't actually beat them militarily).

Other than Xmas events, Q doesn't show up - nor any other godlike beings. He USED to, but only to play games seeing how you fair against challenges.

 

[Mark_Nguyen]

As noted, the inside surface of the sphere is insane - possibly many times more than that of all M-class worlds in Federation space COMBINED. And big enough such that if you wanted to maintain different environments for different species, or even other planetary classes just for fun, it wouldn't be a problem at all.

But the whole surface would be susceptible to solar outbursts, so THAT would have to be contained too. Dialogue from the episode suggested vaguely that the star's activity could be related to why the sphere was abandoned, so in practice if you needed to keep the star under control AND the planets, the resources needed to do it (assuming the sphere had the technology but no longer the ability) could be so ridiculously staggering as to make the project untenable.

Better to call the Vogons to remove it as a navigational hazard, they're good at that.

Mark

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

But the whole surface would be susceptible to solar outbursts, so THAT would have to be contained too. Dialogue from the episode suggested vaguely that the star's activity could be related to why the sphere was abandoned, so in practice if you needed to keep the star under control AND the planets, the resources needed to do it (assuming the sphere had the technology but no longer the ability) could be so ridiculously staggering as to make the project untenable.

Let's assume that the UFP are able to keep the star under control and the Dyson Sphere in check so that it stays at a stable orbit/rotation/equilibrium position around the Star.

Then what do you do?

 

[dupersuper]

Let's assume that the UFP are able to keep the star under control and the Dyson Sphere in check so that it stays at a stable orbit/rotation/equilibrium position around the Star.

Then what do you do?

Colonize and study? That is the UFP way...

 

[Deks]

Let's assume that the UFP are able to keep the star under control and the Dyson Sphere in check so that it stays at a stable orbit/rotation/equilibrium position around the Star.

Then what do you do?

The UFP DID demonstrate the ability to be able to reignite a star (happened on DS9). Apart from that, there was also an attempt to stabilize a dying star in TNG with a torpedo... which unfortunately didn't work at the time (it seems to me the UFP may have learned from that practical attempt until it culminated in the ability for them to re-ignite a star - which seems more difficult compared to an ability to stabilize one).

All in all, considering UFP encounters with stellar phenomena leading up to the late 24th century, I wouldn't put it past them to be good at it.

Also, the star in the Dyson Sphere seemed more or less stable apart from occasional 'hiccups'... so its possible that the problem is not 'extreme enough' to be beyond UFP ability to repair/stabilize.

I think the first order of business would need to be getting a handle of the Sphere's operations... means SF would need to find a command center (if the sphere has one), or create an interface with which to interact with the Sphere. Since there's a door there and tractor beams, presumably, there is also a computer interface (or the computers could be scattered all throughout the sphere's infrastructure networked together (this is kinda what I was hinting at when describing the construction of UFP's Dyson Swarm - aka, since each solar collector is 10km big, the inner side of it would contain say 10-20 Intrepid class computer cores, same amount of transporters, industrial grade replicators, tractor beams, antigravity controls, thrusters, field/shield generators, and impulse engines [starship type], pattern buffers, sensors/communication systems, subspace technology (you can also throw in fusion reactors across the collector as a backup - but no real need for M/AM generators since solar would be more than enough)... all of those would be interconnected/networked to share resources and effectively enhance overall replication/materialization capabilities (so in a sense you get the technology of a starship, just scaled multiple times over and networked across 10km inner surface area which wouldn't need be more than 1 deck high either).

The outer section of the collector (which faces the sun) can easily house habitats etc... all made from the composite material which accumulates solar energy, so it would never run out - also, we already designed solar panels capable of working at night (harvesting the infrared), so the same would (probably) be accurate for UFP solar technology (which would be hundreds of years more hyper advanced to the point where even a small surface area would be able to power a building - now imagine lining your hull in the material in question - woof, the harvested energy would likely range in many times over compared to what a single solar collector/habitat would ever need).

Also, a Swarm or a Sphere DOESN'T have to be made of Neutronium... and UFP has several materials of choice (even dating back to the 22nd century) which they can blend into a new composite and used as a baseline for the swarm or an actual sphere if Neutronium is out of the equation in terms of production (for the time being).

So, UFP DOES in fact have the ability to make their own Swarm or a Sphere... either one would do the trick... its just a Swarm would be far easier to construct (and less susceptible to impacts from asteroids, etc... but that's easily remedied with a simple integration of a deflector array). For us (in real life) it would take us maybe 20 years to make the swarm if we used automated self-replicated bots which house 3d printing, molecular manufacturing (since 2015) and atomic scale manufacturing (since 2018) technologies (and simple extrusion technology existed for decades - it predates 3d printing).

For UFP in the 24th century, replicators convert energy into matter... that way, they SKIP the process of accumulating raw material and just replicate the Swarm or a sphere in sections per each materialization cycle depending on how long it takes to recharge the capacitors (since its being gotten from the star) on the spot - this would be a huge time saver (along with the fact you just materialize matter - as opposed to fabricate it on the spot).

The existing Dyson Sphere (from TNG) however might be defunct in some parts... and because its made of Neutronium, it could demonstrate difficult to interact with and repurpose as a result (at least for the time being).
But, to me this never made much sense since the UFP DID encounter a Planet Killer which they disabled about 70 years earlier and was made of solid Neutronium. I would postulate the UFP would be able to adjust their technology to be able to penetrate and interact with the hull which would give them more info on how it was made, and the other 50 years would be more than enough time to start making their own Neutronium... and because UFP is comprised of dozens of species in the 23rd century (and technology and science evolve exponentially), the UFP would have been able to crack this in far less time... but since the writers decided to ignore this completely... its a bit moot.
In my head canon (or at least, alternate reality, UFP was much more advanced than the Prime Timeline thanks to all of that).

UFP would likely use the Dyson Sphere for study... possible colonization, and it could be used for scientific experimentation (given how much energy that thing has at its disposal), and starship construction.
They could literally replicate whole fleets of ships into existence... hundreds of thousands to millions... if not billions.

Obviously, replicating that much ships in a single go (while possible), wouldn't be of much use if the UFP cannot crew them... but automated ships would present a different option in that case.
So, my guess is that they would use the Sphere to supplement starship construction over time (replicating how many ships is needed), but they could still replicate a ridiculous number of FTL multispatial probes (like the one VOY designed) to send into far reaches of the Galaxy ahead of starships.

The Sphere (or a UFP made Swarm/SPhere)could also be used to integrate Hypersubspace and Astrometric sensors together... they could massively amplify range, communications, real time sensor data (I mean, if regular Astrometric sensors already can scan 2500 Ly's away on an Intrepid class ship, just picture how far out a system the size of a Dyson Swarm or a Sphere could scan in real time... probably throughout the entire galaxy - or most of it... it could also be used to maintain real-time comms with species throughout the entire galaxy in real time - and it could probably be combined with subspace transporters or Tranwarp beaming (which is ever elusive in the Prime Timeline even though it was supposed to have occured by now) for transfer of objects to distant locations in the Milky Way (which could be one way of maintaining contact with species across the Galaxy - and heck, even humanoids can survive supspace beaming process if its treated on the spot - at least until UFP finds a way to protect live tissue - beaming of automation, tools, whatever... which could effectively start terraforming of other planets, or even remote construction of starbases and other Dyson Swarms or Spheres - just beam self-replicating technology near a star and instruct it to start building).

The sphere could be used to further research into Soliton Wave technology, Quantum Slipstram (and the power source it used since it was non antimater based) and Tetryon Reactors. Even if at this juncture the Soliton Wave is still not viable to be used for Warp travel without warp engines... aspects of the technology could be used to increase efficiency of existing Warp drives by quite a lot (it was mentioned during the initial test that there was less than 2% power loss between the ship and wave - increasing efficiency by at least 400%).

If this could be adapted on standard warp technology, then that means, SF would be able to access higher Warp velocities with minimal power drain.
It's also possible that the USS Prometheus (the 4 nacelle ship with multivector assault mode) already used a version of this technique (along with far better SIF technology) seeing how it was able to maintain a speed of Warp 9.9 without any bumps or problems (unlike VOY which was only able to maintain 9.75 for 12 hours) - which means it was travelling at 21 473 times speed of light towards Romulan Space. That actually opens up massive exploration capabilities of the Milky Way using regular Warp speeds already after VOY's return, and even dwarf galaxies in the immediate vicinity of the Milky Way are accessible to UFP with just Warp 9.9 (but I think Warp 9.91 would have been possible to sustain for long periods of time, which would be double the speed of 9.9).

At any rate, UFP making its own Dyson Swarm or a Sphere, or repurposing the existing Dyson Sphere can be used for numerous things... from scientific/technological R&D to exploration, making its own Quantum Slipstream drives, developing new power sources... real time scanning of the Milky Way and establishing intra-galactic communication (possibly even extra galactic)... anything really.
The possibilities are quite large when you have at least 384.6 Yottawatts to work with (and that's just our own star). This easily trumps M/AM and dlithium in terms of energy output of a Warp core by orders of magnitude... or tens of thousands of Warp cores (I think).

Making your own antimatter, mining dilithium for regulation of reactions, etc... is a bit pointless on a stationary superstructure like the Dyson Swarm or Sphere.
Why bother when the energy being emitted is already there? You just need to harness it... and making enough photovoltaic surfaces for the Dyson Swarm habitats or an actual sphere (when powered by the star itself) is probably a lot easier than to make independent M/AM cores and mine dilithium - which can still be done for ship... but otherwise, not needed for a Swarm or a Sphere.

 

[Arpy]

If they could stabilize the star, they’d then spend decades studying the hull for dangers (surface cracks, radiation leaks, dormant weapons, automated Zamboni, etc) before trying to dismantle it for parts or, if possible, colonize it. One wonders if it is replete with “natural resources” deposited by its builders. If the oceans are filled with life as the green forests suggest for the surface. Are these ecosystems and the lifeforms therein to be studied, evacuated, eaten?

If it’s salvageable, it’s a major find for the Federation and an open new frontier for trillions (or more) of new colonists for millennia (or longer) ahead. They could set up defense platforms to thwart surface collisions from comets and whatnot…Romulan invasion too…and buoys along safe approach trajectories for colonists and merchants and so on.

Question is though, when and why was it abandoned? Was it the star, or was it so long ago that the star only more recently (in the past few million years or so) started acting up, and there were other reasons it was abandoned. Positive reasons (its advanced builders ascended to another plane of existence?) or negative reasons (evil alien threat in nearby space…or perhaps one trapped within the sphere’s neutronium shell until newly freed by unsuspecting colonists!).

 

[Omega-Trekker]

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[publiusr]

The best parts. A whole series could be set there. All those crazy on planet TOS episodes in different zones…