How would other starship classes have fared in the Delta Quadrant?
- Thread starter Infern0
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As I mentioned the ship was no longer a threat. The new weapon wasn't going to work and after it was used Enterprise wasn't going anywhere for awhile.
The destruction of what is usually referred to as the Melbourne, was made after BOBW. It was retro conned. Picard's knowledge of Riker was being tested here. Riker proved himself to be an expert tactician, by altering the original plan long enough to capture Locutus. The stardrive section showed its mobility and dodged the Borg tractor beam. Then using Shelby's antimatter spread to temporarily confuse the Borg allowed a small away team to capture Locutus. Once captured the Borg, as Locutus put it, would continue on and Locutus would continue his "job" on board Enterprise. There was no need to destroy Enterprise since Locutus could continue from there.
Size is no indication of power. The way it reads in the article was that Tactical Cubes came after Scorpion, and that there were no Tactical Cubes pre-Scorpion.
No doubt Assimilation Cubes are a huge threat, but to dismiss Tactical Cubes as an equal threat would be folly. Looking at it from the prospective of of the Borg, Assimilation Cubes and Tactical Cubes can both be used. Tactical Cubes with their armor could provide added shielding to defend Assimilation Cubes, especially if the Species targeted for assimilation posses a real threat. Once the species is defenseless, or its weapons adapted to, both types of ships could begin assimilation.
BOBW and Emissary were written by the same guy, Mike Piller. So it was his choice to show the Borg destroying starships in a single shot (right through the shields) meaning that they should've been able to do it just the same to the ENT-D Battle section.
Also, after they fire the anti-matter spread they stopped trying to tractor beam the Enterprise sections entirely when they easily could've destroyed either of them. But instead they decided to try and tractor the shuttle for some reason like it was the bigger threat.
Fact stands, the Tactical Cube is smaller than an Assimilation Cube and too much in the script itself makes them out to be weaker than Assimilation Cubes. If they really wanted to make them out to be stronger they'd make it bigger and say it was a "Class 1" or something.
Hell, we only ever SEE the Tactical Cube once whereas we always see Assimilation Cubes when worlds are threatened.
It should go like this:
Probe Ship and Scout Spheres: No tougher than Jem'Hadar fighters. No adaptive powers, limited regeneration power.
Tactical Spheres and Cubes: Strong enough for one to handle a squadron of Fleet ships but their adaptive power needs several shots before it fully adapts, and the regeneration power takes time too.
Assimilation Cubes: Huge monsters capable of taking Capital Worlds on their own, can annihilate armadas on their own.
Also, assimilation itself should be a more difficult thing. It should work only on 10% of people they try to assimilate because usually the shock of the body alterations and having their minds forcibly graft into the Collective just kills them. And it should be only something a proper facility (An Assimilation Cube, space station or Borg world) can do. Drones can't do it on their own.
Also, after they fire the anti-matter spread they stopped trying to tractor beam the Enterprise sections entirely when they easily could've destroyed either of them. But instead they decided to try and tractor the shuttle for some reason like it was the bigger threat.
Fact stands, the Tactical Cube is smaller than an Assimilation Cube and too much in the script itself makes them out to be weaker than Assimilation Cubes. If they really wanted to make them out to be stronger they'd make it bigger and say it was a "Class 1" or something.
Hell, we only ever SEE the Tactical Cube once whereas we always see Assimilation Cubes when worlds are threatened.
It should go like this:
Probe Ship and Scout Spheres: No tougher than Jem'Hadar fighters. No adaptive powers, limited regeneration power.
Tactical Spheres and Cubes: Strong enough for one to handle a squadron of Fleet ships but their adaptive power needs several shots before it fully adapts, and the regeneration power takes time too.
Assimilation Cubes: Huge monsters capable of taking Capital Worlds on their own, can annihilate armadas on their own.
Also, assimilation itself should be a more difficult thing. It should work only on 10% of people they try to assimilate because usually the shock of the body alterations and having their minds forcibly graft into the Collective just kills them. And it should be only something a proper facility (An Assimilation Cube, space station or Borg world) can do. Drones can't do it on their own.
Enterprise was no match for it, they just had it confused with the antimatter spread, then a third ship entered the picture, one headed right at them. It became the more immediate threat. Also, although not shown, attacks continued on the Stardrive and Saucer. Riker did continue evasive maneuvers and Shelby did say the Saucer's impulse drive was out, directly implying an attack.
The two episodes were written years apart. Despite the fact that they were both written by the same person doesn't mean they weren't retro conned. Also Emissary was seen from the eyes of Sisko. All we see of what the Borg did to the Melbourne before it was destroyed was that it was hit by both a tractor beam and another weapon. Possibly the cutting beam but much more powerful. We don't even see it hit the Cube, even though its was headed on a collision course.
Again size is no indication of power.
New ship for the Borg, we don't know how long Assimilation Cubes were being made. I would think that until species 8472 few other ships were needed, or that maybe the idea for multiple types of ships was recently assimilated from another species. It would then stand to reason that Assimilation Cubes out number all other types of ships the Borg use.
Again conjecture, no dialogue to back it up. 7 could have easily told Voyager what ships it could attack and which it can't.
That I can see as a possibility, but with all the technology assimilated, assimilation has become routine to the Borg, with Unimatrix Zero being the only flaw.
Just for the fun of it I'm including the battle as shown in Emissary. You can see that both a tractor beam and another weapon were used to destroy the Melbourne. Maybe this was something gained from the mind of Picard?
[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YOX9ke4aRY[/yt]
It's the cutting beam, same color and effect. Somehow the Borg can destroy those ships in single shots but they can't do the same to the Enterprise. And somehow the Enterprise can dodge the Borg or take more shots than the rest of those ships.
So it's plot armor then, main character ship can handle more than cannon fodder (DS9 did the same thing). Same as Voyager, but more people complain because they don't like VOY.
For the Borg ships, like I said all writers of the Borg were lazy and SHOULD have included that hierarchy. Having all Borg ships be equal in power was a dumb idea.
And what I'm saying is that those limitations (assimilation being something that rarely works) SHOULD have been used.
The writers just kept overpowering the Borg, and it was a BIG mistake.
So it's plot armor then, main character ship can handle more than cannon fodder (DS9 did the same thing). Same as Voyager, but more people complain because they don't like VOY.
For the Borg ships, like I said all writers of the Borg were lazy and SHOULD have included that hierarchy. Having all Borg ships be equal in power was a dumb idea.
And what I'm saying is that those limitations (assimilation being something that rarely works) SHOULD have been used.
The writers just kept overpowering the Borg, and it was a BIG mistake.
my 2c after reading most posts here
Only Intrepid class would have a chance due to being able to land on a planet to do maintenance... however, its lack of offence and defences is an issue... voyager is a LIGHT cruiser... any race with even close to fed tech will have more powerful ships
also... as if you would attempt to take ANY lone fed ship through Borg space
however, on the topic of other ships n stuff...
-most ships travel at warp 5-6 in star trek cauz high warp damages sub-space (read it in thoes magazines from years ago)... the intrepid class does not due to its wonkey nacelle lifting thingey...
-population is important... a Galaxy class simply had far to large crew and civs... wehnever they get low on supplies, they would need to find enough food for their 1000+ crew n for the civs on top
-Warp speed - most Fed ships lack the necessary warp tech to do extreme distance... the only ships with decent warp tech is the intrepid, soverign, prometheus and possiably the lokota class. The defiant class is FAR too slow... unless they perhaps do what the equinox did... Galaxy class may have power issues (even with bigger storage) cauz of higher power requirments at high warp due to its mass
Cruise speeds:
Galaxy / Defiant - 6
Intrepid / soverign / Prometheus - 8
warp 6 vs 8 is a MASSIVE difference for cruise speeds
Furthermore... i have no idea how the defiant can easily travel to earth... its a 17day journey at warp 8.7 (defiants max cruise)... so therefor its a month couped up for a trip to earth n back... worst example is on "paradice lost"... my only explination is a warp corridor.
-a bigger more powerful ship would not be such a tempting target for early seasons races... i doubt the kazon or the Vidiians would have been as keen on attacking a ship with type 9/10 phasers and quantom torpedos... federation tech is pretty good... i reckon a defiant class could have belted up a kazon predator class
-all ships designed post intrepid (soverign / prometheus) would have bio-nural gel packs... just like all new computers use DDR3 RAM... why use out-dated iso-linear tech. they would prob only bother putting them in to older ships during a refit (my opninion)
-As for the borg spheres discussion... i reckon the FC one was not it... that could be the borg equilivent of a shuttle. However... i just had a look through some episodes and every shpere seems to be a different size compared to voyager
My vote is for the Prometheus class... It has speed + excellent defences... as for boarding parties... there are holograpic emmiters on all deck.. if a holographic bullet can kill, a holographic anvil squish!
-plot hole - anytime theres a boarding party, just suck out all the air (or enough to disable them) or increase gravity in that section to kill them and steal their weps
-BEST SHIP: the refit Galaxy from the alternate time line in "All good things"... warp 13 and a huge phase cannon FTW
Only Intrepid class would have a chance due to being able to land on a planet to do maintenance... however, its lack of offence and defences is an issue... voyager is a LIGHT cruiser... any race with even close to fed tech will have more powerful ships
also... as if you would attempt to take ANY lone fed ship through Borg space
however, on the topic of other ships n stuff...
-most ships travel at warp 5-6 in star trek cauz high warp damages sub-space (read it in thoes magazines from years ago)... the intrepid class does not due to its wonkey nacelle lifting thingey...
-population is important... a Galaxy class simply had far to large crew and civs... wehnever they get low on supplies, they would need to find enough food for their 1000+ crew n for the civs on top
-Warp speed - most Fed ships lack the necessary warp tech to do extreme distance... the only ships with decent warp tech is the intrepid, soverign, prometheus and possiably the lokota class. The defiant class is FAR too slow... unless they perhaps do what the equinox did... Galaxy class may have power issues (even with bigger storage) cauz of higher power requirments at high warp due to its mass
Cruise speeds:
Galaxy / Defiant - 6
Intrepid / soverign / Prometheus - 8
warp 6 vs 8 is a MASSIVE difference for cruise speeds
Furthermore... i have no idea how the defiant can easily travel to earth... its a 17day journey at warp 8.7 (defiants max cruise)... so therefor its a month couped up for a trip to earth n back... worst example is on "paradice lost"... my only explination is a warp corridor.
-a bigger more powerful ship would not be such a tempting target for early seasons races... i doubt the kazon or the Vidiians would have been as keen on attacking a ship with type 9/10 phasers and quantom torpedos... federation tech is pretty good... i reckon a defiant class could have belted up a kazon predator class
-all ships designed post intrepid (soverign / prometheus) would have bio-nural gel packs... just like all new computers use DDR3 RAM... why use out-dated iso-linear tech. they would prob only bother putting them in to older ships during a refit (my opninion)
-As for the borg spheres discussion... i reckon the FC one was not it... that could be the borg equilivent of a shuttle. However... i just had a look through some episodes and every shpere seems to be a different size compared to voyager
My vote is for the Prometheus class... It has speed + excellent defences... as for boarding parties... there are holograpic emmiters on all deck.. if a holographic bullet can kill, a holographic anvil squish!
-plot hole - anytime theres a boarding party, just suck out all the air (or enough to disable them) or increase gravity in that section to kill them and steal their weps
-BEST SHIP: the refit Galaxy from the alternate time line in "All good things"... warp 13 and a huge phase cannon FTW
To the OP... why the assumption the Defiant is more powerful than the Intrepid?
The Intrepid is essentially a downsized Galaxy class tech wise with equal weapons and shields (though a smaller torpedo count - still 36 would NOT be the max capacity due to free space involved - especially since the Defiant was left with more than 40 torpedoes after a fleet combat - my guess is that the Intrepid's actual torpedo storage capability is roughly 150).
Anyway... I don't think a Galaxy class would have necessarily fared any better (except in certain combats which would demand it was launched with full torpedo compliment - in which case, the Galaxy would be able to waste more than Voyager and make quick work out of some enemies - the Kazon carrier ships for example - simply because they had more warheads to spare).
A Sovereign class would probably have the advantage due to likely more powerful shields, phasers and quantum torpedoes.
Remember that food and most issues that Voyager faced should have been trivial in the first place because of their level of tech and capabilities.
A star-ship would only need to make 'pit stops' in solar systems for example where they could use transporters to convert raw matter from asteroids into spare parts and whatever else they needed (use the stars for gathering/using energy while doing the said tasks).
Create small scale refinery in which you could synthesize antimatter that would be deployed on a needed basis.
EVERY Federation ship with transporters and replicators (or heck, 'taken for granted' technologies) has the means to be self-sustaining and come up with creative ways of extending their reserves and whatnot.
Most problems we saw were downright idiotic due to the necessity of the writers to dumb down the tech in order to increase the drama (instead of working with existing aspects and make a workaround that fits the stage).
Speed... we don't know how fast a galaxy class is after upgrades... but since the Intrepid and Sovereign class are both effectively vessels launched within the same time-frame, and the Galaxy class received new refits before their launch (as evident in TNG), I'd say that speed between these 3 ships is not that much of an issue.
If anything, Voyager's top CRUISING speed was rated to be 9.975.
Meaning the ship can safely travel at those velocities without stopping for a 'rest'.
I would surmise that higher warp factors, such as 9.976 and above would significantly reduce the Intrepid's ability to maintain it's speed (the hull would likely start to shake at higher than cruising speed factors).
I would only give tactical advantage to the Sovereign and the Prometheus (maybe), the rest would fare just as well, or even worse than the Intrepid.
The Intrepid is essentially a downsized Galaxy class tech wise with equal weapons and shields (though a smaller torpedo count - still 36 would NOT be the max capacity due to free space involved - especially since the Defiant was left with more than 40 torpedoes after a fleet combat - my guess is that the Intrepid's actual torpedo storage capability is roughly 150).
Anyway... I don't think a Galaxy class would have necessarily fared any better (except in certain combats which would demand it was launched with full torpedo compliment - in which case, the Galaxy would be able to waste more than Voyager and make quick work out of some enemies - the Kazon carrier ships for example - simply because they had more warheads to spare).
A Sovereign class would probably have the advantage due to likely more powerful shields, phasers and quantum torpedoes.
Remember that food and most issues that Voyager faced should have been trivial in the first place because of their level of tech and capabilities.
A star-ship would only need to make 'pit stops' in solar systems for example where they could use transporters to convert raw matter from asteroids into spare parts and whatever else they needed (use the stars for gathering/using energy while doing the said tasks).
Create small scale refinery in which you could synthesize antimatter that would be deployed on a needed basis.
EVERY Federation ship with transporters and replicators (or heck, 'taken for granted' technologies) has the means to be self-sustaining and come up with creative ways of extending their reserves and whatnot.
Most problems we saw were downright idiotic due to the necessity of the writers to dumb down the tech in order to increase the drama (instead of working with existing aspects and make a workaround that fits the stage).
Speed... we don't know how fast a galaxy class is after upgrades... but since the Intrepid and Sovereign class are both effectively vessels launched within the same time-frame, and the Galaxy class received new refits before their launch (as evident in TNG), I'd say that speed between these 3 ships is not that much of an issue.
If anything, Voyager's top CRUISING speed was rated to be 9.975.
Meaning the ship can safely travel at those velocities without stopping for a 'rest'.
I would surmise that higher warp factors, such as 9.976 and above would significantly reduce the Intrepid's ability to maintain it's speed (the hull would likely start to shake at higher than cruising speed factors).
I would only give tactical advantage to the Sovereign and the Prometheus (maybe), the rest would fare just as well, or even worse than the Intrepid.
The Intrepid class is weak... it is not a "scaled down" version of the galaxy class and its tech is more advanced (but not weps)... It uses Type 8 phasers (same as an Excelsior class) where Galaxy uses Type 10 phasers and soverign/prometheus use type 12 phasers (the same as what is used on spacedock) as for the defiant class... it is a combat ship... easliy more powerful in combat than a galaxy class (however extreemly un-versatile for anything else).
Replicator tech allows food supplies to by multiplird approx 13 times origonal product but has large power requirments. there is a big difference between finding supplies for 150ppl and more than 1000ppl
Replicator tech allows food supplies to by multiplird approx 13 times origonal product but has large power requirments. there is a big difference between finding supplies for 150ppl and more than 1000ppl
The Galaxy was designed to be off alone without Federation support and with its full crew complement for decades - I think it'd be fine. They could set up dozens of different labs, workshops, and refineries to get them going indefinitely in that thing. A mini-Starfleet Academy too if they had to go on for generations. And with its ability to separate, it'd have twice the chance. If anything, Voyager had it proportionately harder because it wasn't meant to be alone like that, just like the Equinox.
The Defiant would too have had it very hard, but where there's a will there's a way. Still, I think Niner's would enjoy the tragic prospect of having to settle far from home and make a go of it there - it's basically what "Children of Time"'s about. And "Paradise" too, come to thing of it.
One of my least favorite ships, the Sovereign, would have had it easiest. Autonomous and both defensively and scientifically formidable. ...Still wouldn't have made it past the Borg if it wasn't a hero ship though. Or a dozen other VOY predicaments.
The Defiant would too have had it very hard, but where there's a will there's a way. Still, I think Niner's would enjoy the tragic prospect of having to settle far from home and make a go of it there - it's basically what "Children of Time"'s about. And "Paradise" too, come to thing of it.
One of my least favorite ships, the Sovereign, would have had it easiest. Autonomous and both defensively and scientifically formidable. ...Still wouldn't have made it past the Borg if it wasn't a hero ship though. Or a dozen other VOY predicaments.
I agree with most of you, that the Defiant class ships wouldnt last very long, with no holosuits etc. The other class ships apart from the Intrepid wouldnt last long in the Delta Quadrant. They just wernt powerfull enough. Btw, Kes transported Voyager 10 yrs closer to home (some 9.500 light years).
The Intrepid class was prob the all around best for the Delta Quadrant. It's firepower was on par with an Excelsior but had the added advantage to land on a planet to conduct repairs. Space docs weren't readily available in the delta quadrant, bear in mind this was suppose to be the wild west of the galaxy. It didn't need the power requirements of say a Galaxy or a Sovereign class, it also didn't have the crew compliment so there is less of a need for supplies.
When the caretaker array pulled the Voyager to the delta quadrant, the voyager sustained some heavy damage. I'm not sure if a galaxy or sovereign would have fared better (being that they're larger and can take more of a pounding) or worse (because of there size more can be damaged). If the latter there would be a more pressing need for repairs. Which would you rather repair a Harley or a Cadillac?
1st pick intrepid for it's versatility
2nd pick sovereign for its speed and battle capability
Galaxy is just too big and dosen't have the speed. Also Voyager lost crew when the array pulled them into the delta quadrant. How would a galaxy crew have reacted when those casualties were their own family members.
An excelsior would have faired ok but i would wonder about its older space frame.
The Defiant was a battleship, nothing more nothing less. While it had the firepower it wouldn't have the long term ability to survive. As was said many times before the crew would go nuts.
Oberth and miranda...no chance. Again there age to me is a factor, they don't have the weapons. Even if they went the way of the Equinox ( and lets keep in mind the equinox was pratically destroyed when voyager found it).
Prometheus was just a prototype after voyager had been stranded so it's likely hood of being there is nill at best. However its size, weapons, and technological advances would possible make it a good 3rd choice.
As for the Unimatrix Zero episode and the tactical cube. Any federation ship can take a few hits from a borg ship. Even the saratoga took quite a few hits before it was destroyed and it was preborg technology. The intrepid class was designed in part with the thought it may be in battle with the borg. In the episode the voyager hit and ran, then hit again with the help of a freed borg sphere. Then the queen initiated the self destruct on the cube. Voyager never destroyed the cube, it held its own thats all.
When the caretaker array pulled the Voyager to the delta quadrant, the voyager sustained some heavy damage. I'm not sure if a galaxy or sovereign would have fared better (being that they're larger and can take more of a pounding) or worse (because of there size more can be damaged). If the latter there would be a more pressing need for repairs. Which would you rather repair a Harley or a Cadillac?
1st pick intrepid for it's versatility
2nd pick sovereign for its speed and battle capability
Galaxy is just too big and dosen't have the speed. Also Voyager lost crew when the array pulled them into the delta quadrant. How would a galaxy crew have reacted when those casualties were their own family members.
An excelsior would have faired ok but i would wonder about its older space frame.
The Defiant was a battleship, nothing more nothing less. While it had the firepower it wouldn't have the long term ability to survive. As was said many times before the crew would go nuts.
Oberth and miranda...no chance. Again there age to me is a factor, they don't have the weapons. Even if they went the way of the Equinox ( and lets keep in mind the equinox was pratically destroyed when voyager found it).
Prometheus was just a prototype after voyager had been stranded so it's likely hood of being there is nill at best. However its size, weapons, and technological advances would possible make it a good 3rd choice.
As for the Unimatrix Zero episode and the tactical cube. Any federation ship can take a few hits from a borg ship. Even the saratoga took quite a few hits before it was destroyed and it was preborg technology. The intrepid class was designed in part with the thought it may be in battle with the borg. In the episode the voyager hit and ran, then hit again with the help of a freed borg sphere. Then the queen initiated the self destruct on the cube. Voyager never destroyed the cube, it held its own thats all.
The Defiant Class ship was design to fight the Borg but even they would last 2 minutes in Borg space. I'm surprised Voy made it out of Borg space in one piece. Are the Borg really that stupid? They could have overwhelmed the ships defense and taken over the ships withing minutes. IF they transported several hundreds drowns onto Voy, do you think they could offer sufficient resistance? They outnumbered Voy in both man power and ships. The Borg had more drones and ships in their space. The odds were in their favor not Voyager's and yet they somehow manage. 
Yes but the borg had just taken some heavy losses from species 8472. I'm sure they needed some time to regroup after the ordeal. Salvaging their destroyed ships, rescuing any borg still alive and cannibalizing their dead. Voyager wasn't going anywhere so their was no importance to go after them at the time. Going after 1 starship with a crew of 150 hardly seems to be worth the extra resources.
The ability to land on a planet is vastly over rated. Kirk's Enterprise was able to repair a great deal of battle damage between ST II and III.
Those big heavy landing struts are useless 99.99% of the time. They could have used that mass for more weapons or fuel. Also how can it be claimed the hull shape is the most warp efficient in space when the ship has to make design considerations such as not tipping or rolling over when grounded?
How many times was Voyager landed? I remember only a Kazon exile and that Y-class demon planet non-sense.
Ships are built in space so why they not be repaired in space? Voyager herself is shown to have originated at Utopia Planitia above Mars not a JJ style terrestial launch.
Those big heavy landing struts are useless 99.99% of the time. They could have used that mass for more weapons or fuel. Also how can it be claimed the hull shape is the most warp efficient in space when the ship has to make design considerations such as not tipping or rolling over when grounded?
How many times was Voyager landed? I remember only a Kazon exile and that Y-class demon planet non-sense.
Ships are built in space so why they not be repaired in space? Voyager herself is shown to have originated at Utopia Planitia above Mars not a JJ style terrestial launch.
I was really hoping to not get drawn back into this.
For whatever reason the Borg Queen, the personification of the Collective, had a fascination with 7. It was either because 7 was able to be removed from the Collective even though she had been in it for years (Picard's removal from the Collective can easily be explained by his short time in it, 6 days.) that would be something the Queen/Collective would want to know about; or because 7 was in line to become the next Queen. In any event the Queen's fascination with 7 prevented the Borg from just taking Voyager. They just couldn't risk losing 7 in a battle with Voyager and her crew.
Just enough to get it back into warp and back to spacedock to complete repairs. Remember Scotty was not happy to be reassigned to Excelsior, even though Enterprise 1701 was going to be mothballed. Voyager and Enterprise D were both able to accomplish similar feats.
Landing on a planet allows for the crew to do the more extensive, getting your hands dirty work, and reaching into tight spaces that could only be done in spacedock type of repairs. Even today's warships can conduct repairs allowing them to return to port where more extensive and permanent repairs and/or upgrades can be done in drydock.
What? Aples and oranges. Warp occurs in space. Landing occurs on a planet. Her hull can be designed for faster warp speeds and the placement of her nacelles, the most dense and heavies part of the ship could balance her on ground. You can't compare the two the way you just did. So landing on a planet allowing the crew do major work on the ship and explore the planet they've landed on using shuttles or the old fashioned way, on foot, to look for raw materials and possible mining (if they could). Trade was mentioned a few times in Voyager and as long as the species was comparable to Federation technology, the Prime Directive wouldn't be broken so major repairs could be undertaken from time to time as well as resupply of fuel and material for weapons.
At least 4. There are the two you mentioned. Then the time when Voyager landed to overhaul her nacelles, and when she hid from the species that chased her through the transwarp corridors. I seem to recall a 5th, but Anwar may be best able to answer that.
Landing to repair allows more room for larger ships to use spacedock, that also gives Starfleet more facilities to use to repair and maintain the Intrepid's. Using drydock, instead of spacedock.
Can you point to an episode or even a Voyager novel or comic where any of this technobabble meant anything? Because the Voyager we saw could and did do everything the Enterprise-D did (except seperate) just as well as the Enterprise-D did.
Maybe a good way to revitalize TNG would have been to have them transported out to the Delta quadrant instead of making Voyager. 
I don't know though. The same Voyager producers and writers would have been involved with that TNG extension, I imagine. So it probably would have just slipped into the same mediocrity. Trek badly needed some new creative minds.
edit - sorry about the necro thread revival! I found the thread via Google and didn't notice the date until now!
I don't know though. The same Voyager producers and writers would have been involved with that TNG extension, I imagine. So it probably would have just slipped into the same mediocrity. Trek badly needed some new creative minds.
edit - sorry about the necro thread revival! I found the thread via Google and didn't notice the date until now!
I know it's not canon, but Voyager's show creators stated that she ship uses Type X phasers.
NOT type 8 as many fans seemed to think. And if we are going to go by those statements, then the statements of those who created the show have more credibility than fans.
Aside from that, we have no on-screen statements that further indicate the ship's abilities, aside from Warp speed, which for Voyager is stated to be 9.975 as 'top cruising speed'.
However, if the statement that Voyager has Type X phasers is accurate, then I see no reason why the same shouldn't go for shields.
You say the Defiant can easily surpass a Galaxy class ship in combat?
Lol... ok, then why not Voyager?
Voyager and the Defiant were both constructed 7 years after the Galaxy class.
It stands to reason both ships would be able to AT LEAST match the Galaxy class in offensive/defensive systems.
If I'm also not mistaken, it was mentioned by shows creators (which again is not canon) that Voyager uses a much more advanced version of the Warp core (specifically made for the Intrepids) which effectively produces same energy as a Galaxy class core, despite being smaller (a similar thing was mentioned for the Defiant - which is why it was able to match capital ships in firepower but is limited in all other areas - Voyager being large can match a Galaxy class ship but as a result has lower amount of amenities by comparison, and a very small crew count).
The Excelsior class ships hopefully received all of the upgrades that the USS Lakota got per on-screen evidence.
Both the Lakota and the Defiant ended up evenly matched, and it could have gone either way if they decided to use Quantum torpedoes as well (which they didn't).
I fail to see why would a ship such as Voyager, which was stated to be 'state of the art' btw, would be 'weak' compared to other capital ships?
Granted, the Sovereign and Prometheus are in a different ballpark (with the latter constructed 4 years after Voyager was lost in the DQ).
And the Prometheus being just slightly larger than the Intrepid (but having also 15 decks) can be a 'downsized Sovereign class' just as the Intrepid is a 'downsized Galaxy class'.
I don't see the problem.
Start quoting that 'bigger = better' and I would refer you to the miniscule Defiant that according to you is able to match capital ships (but no other ship of larger/medium size can - which seems stupid because Voyager by it's size alone can house some amenities obviously for recreation whereas the Defiant can't - and as I said, life support requirements for both the Defiant and Voyager are much smaller due to smaller crew counts).
As for replicators... their capabilities were underrated in the show to say the least.
Some fans speculate that they operate on the principles of rearranging raw matter into more complex forms of matter using transporters as a basis while on-screen dialogue clearly establishes that they convert energy into matter (although, one can also argue that particles that make up energy are 'matter' as well, just rearranged in a different manner than solid matter - they are then being arranged by replicators on a subatomic scale to effectively create a desired solid object of the persons choosing).
I'm inclined to go with the energy into matter statement seeing how that's what's said on-screen and is being meant in a literal capacity (also keep in mind the technology in use probably goes around laws of conservation or entirely nullifies them because they have a more superior understanding than we do).
Having said that, any ship would only need to stop at any system of choice and replenish their stocks (such as food, spare parts, parts of shuttles for assembly, parts of torpedoes for assembly) by replicating the heck out of everything they need, and replenish their energy reserves via the stars or converting it into another form of energy that they find usable (but they can use solar power as well per ST:IV).
The only thing that wouldn't be replicable (most likely) are: deuterium, dylithium crystals (which they can recrystalize large amounts of time) and antimatter.
Antimatter they can probably manufacture on their own if they set up pit stops in various star systems that are uninhabited, and the rest can be more or less easily found.
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