How widespread do you think transporter technology is?

[JonnyQuest037]

Do you think transporter technology is something that only Starfleet & the various alien military forces have, or is it something that's feely available & used by the general public? I can't recall too many references to civilians using them planetside. What do you folks think?

 

[Finn]

^There aren't too many references to civilian life in general to begin with.

 

[Sector 7]

I seem to recall a few 24th century references to transporter travel on Earth. I tend to think the technology is equivalent to public transportation today, instead of a subway station one would go to a transporter station. I am sure someone else will correct me if I am wrong about that.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

^There aren't too many references to civilian life in general to begin with.

I know. Feel free to speculate. Maybe it was largely only used by Starfleet in the 23rd Century and had spread to the general public by the 24th?

 

[C.E. Evans]

I tend to think that there while there are some transporter stations that are specifically for Starfleet personnel--especially around Starfleet facilities--the majority of transporter stations are probably for both Starfleet and civilian use like most airports are today.

But I would imagine that transporters aren't used for everyday travel in civilian use, but mostly for travel to and from an orbiting starship or space station. Otherwise, people probably commute around a planet via airtrams (seen in TMP) or underground "turbotrains." Unless it's an emergency situation, it may be even considered wasteful for someone to spend transporter credits beaming around a planet (sorta like getting in an airplane just to travel twenty miles--yeah, it'd be faster than a car, but kind of extravagant)...

 

[Finn]

^this

 

[Timo]

Otherwise, people probably commute around a planet via airtrams (seen in TMP) or underground "turbotrains."

But Kirk didn't commute in an air tram - he flew aboard a VIP shuttle with Starfleet Command pennants and a pretty stewardess! No matter what the backstage sources called that shuttle, it didn't cater for mass transit at all, from what we saw.

Vehicular commuting would sound horribly inefficient and unecological when transporters exist as an alternative, consuming no space for their infrastructure and only utilizing energy (the type of which can be selected to be as ecological and economical as one wishes). I could easily see transporters completely replacing all forms of mass transit, except for surface-to-orbit where one would have to worry about things like shield activity, hitting a moving target and so forth. Civilian transporters could be landline-based closed-circuit systems, seldom operating without pads on both ends, while the military version would have much lower overall capacity but would have special features such as the ability to beam to arbitrary targets without needing two platforms.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[C.E. Evans]

Otherwise, people probably commute around a planet via airtrams (seen in TMP) or underground "turbotrains."

But Kirk didn't commute in an air tram - he flew aboard a VIP shuttle with Starfleet Command pennants and a pretty stewardess!

Actually, I believe that was indeed an airtram, albeit one reserved for Starfleet use within Starfleet HQ. And the "pretty stewardess" was a yeoman mostly likely there because the 'tram was ferrying the Chief of Starfleet Operations at the time (rank has its perks).

Vehicular commuting would sound horribly inefficient and unecological when transporters exist as an alternative...

I think that travel by transporter is akin to air travel today. Yes, it's has its virtues over travel by car (especially over long distances), but the majority of people still travel by car to get to everyday local destinations. Transporter stations are probably as commonplace as big-city airports and small-town airfields are today, IMO.

 

[SchwEnt]

There was a pretty good discussion on transporters and their general common use around here a while back...

It's a bit hard to make comparisons to current day transportation (air travel vs. trains vs. autos vs. etc.)
There are differences and appropriate uses for all those varied types of travel. A bicycle, a car, a ship, a bus, an aircraft are all appropriate for different reasons for different distances.

But with a transporter, beaming across the street can be as easy and quick as beaming across the planet.
So where would one draw the line?
Okay, sure you would beam over to get to another continent. But how about to your job across town? Or would conventional physical transport be more suitable?

In theory, everyone beaming everywhere all the time for any distance should be easier and quicker and all that. But that doesn't happen.

So who gets to transport? Everyone in the general population? And can you really just beam everywhere, even a few blocks across town? What distance would be too ridiculous to transport? Is beaming two miles the same as beaming two thousand miles?
When would conventional physical vehicle transport be more suitable for travel?

Tell me, cuz I wanna know...

 

[Timo]

When we've visited Earth, we have seen no provisions for automobile-sized rolling vehicles, and few provisions for automobile-sized flying vehicles. That is, there are few if any roads or streets that wouldn't be blocked by facilities designed for pedestrian comfort (benches, kiosks, floral decorations), and there aren't obvious "helipads" for aircars, at least not outside the SF HQ environment.

But we have seen conventional-looking trains in Paris, and various tubular installations that cross waterways on bridges (a minimally modified Golden Gate in San Francisco and a somewhat more extensively redone Pont d'léna in Paris) and might well be enclosed rails for conventional or near-conventional trains.

Actually, I believe that was indeed an airtram, albeit one reserved for Starfleet use within Starfleet HQ. And the "pretty stewardess" was a yeoman mostly likely there because the 'tram was ferrying the Chief of Starfleet Operations at the time (rank has its perks).

How often does the Army or the Navy today confiscate trams and paint them in military colors, then use them for rapidly delivering key officers to briefings?

Granted, the US military uses what are essentially fancily painted school buses for transporting grunts around in non-battlefield conditions. But Kirk's VIP shuttle bore no resemblance to a mass transportation vehicle: it didn't have rows of seats or rows of windows, a prime requirement if you ask me... It didn't even have easy means of rapid ingress/egress, just that single door next to a single scenic window - with Kirk's epaulet insignia painted on the door!

http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/tmphd/tmphd0221.jpg
http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/tmphd/tmphd0226.jpg
http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/tmphd/tmphd0223.jpg

Timo Saloniemi

 

[TheLobes]

Im pretty sure civilians have it because in 'Homefront' Sisko mentions to Nog that he used to beam home every day for dinner his first week or so at the academy. Presumably he would have had to beam back as well. Obviously he was Starfleet at the time, but if it was restricted to them I doubt you'd be able to use it to beam home everyday as a cadet.

I always imagined it was just a more expensive way to travel, when time was an important factor. Sort of like a 24th century Concorde.

 

[JarodRussell]

As widespread as airplanes (for public transport) today. The military has lots of them, the public needs to book a transport. And go through security checks. What if some lunatic brings a transport inhibitor to make a political and/or religious statement? And nobody has a private transporter platform at home.


One thing people forget about is security. Only trained personnel may use transporters. Otherwise there would be stupids being beamed into brick walls, into the core of the Earth, or into other people. I'd say that only beaming between two transporter platforms is allowed. Everything else is forbidden. Just like you can't just land with your plane on a freeway. You need a runway, and the authorization to land, and someone needs to check that you don't crash into others. What if two people decide to beam onto the same platform at the same time?

 

[C.E. Evans]

When we've visited Earth, we have seen no provisions for automobile-sized rolling vehicles, and few provisions for automobile-sized flying vehicles.

Actually, we have seen vehicles--perhaps trams of a different kind--rolling through transparent tunnels outside of Starfleet Headquarters and there were still streets big enough for vehicles in New Orleans (ironically, we saw a horse and buggy rolling down the streets outside of Sisko's). And we also know that a subway system exists in San Francisco.

As far as air vehicles, there was the abovementioned airtram station within Starfleet Headquarters. It's not implausible to think that there are similar stations for civilian vehicles.

But we have seen conventional-looking trains in Paris, and various tubular installations that cross waterways on bridges (a minimally modified Golden Gate in San Francisco and a somewhat more extensively redone Pont d'léna in Paris) and might well be enclosed rails for conventional or near-conventional trains.

Exactly, so we know that vehicles still exist and that transporters aren't the only way to get around.

Actually, I believe that was indeed an airtram, albeit one reserved for Starfleet use within Starfleet HQ. And the "pretty stewardess" was a yeoman mostly likely there because the 'tram was ferrying the Chief of Starfleet Operations at the time (rank has its perks).

How often does the Army or the Navy today confiscate trams and paint them in military colors, then use them for rapidly delivering key officers to briefings?

It wouldn't matter if the vehicle was made for Starfleet.

 

[TheLobes]

I'd say that only beaming between two transporter platforms is allowed.

Not sure about that. Im pretty sure Sisko said he used to appear in the dining room each night, and that place certainly didnt seem to have a transporter. Surely the guy doing the transport would just make sure it was in a place that was free of other objects, just like when they beam down to planets.

 

[T'Girl]

Going pad to pad would be easier, use less power, less resources and be cheaper. Most transporting would be through a public station. Your matter stream travels through a underground wave guide conduit (like a cable) to your destination. High traffic destinations (sporting events, concerts, shopping, restaurant districts) would have a large number of pads. You set your destination into terminal or into your personal padd (everyone has one, like a cellphone) you touch it to a pedestal, are assigned a pad and you're gone.

I kind of imagine it being something like getting on and off a ski-lift.

Beaming from place to place without using a pad might be in some ways be like making a cellphone call today. If you're out in the open you are dematerialized and your pattern/matter stream goes to a near-by transporter tower, from there your matter stream travels through the underground wave guide conduit to your destination, up into a different transporter tower and finally rematerialized at the spot of your choosing.

If either your dematerialize or rematerialize point was really in the middle of nowhere, your matter stream could be routed through a satellite in orbit, very expensive.

Beaming into a private home would (hopefully) require the owners permission, they have a pad in their home or you're employing a nearby tower, without the owner's express permission the control system won't even dematerialize you. Emergency personnel could over ride the permission provision. You would possess a security code key to beam into your own home. I imagine most people wouldn't have a pad in their homes, but there would be a station in larger residential buildings, there would also in the same building be access to "lesser" forms of mass transit.

If you lived in a low density residential area, you might possess a personal vehicle.

 

[JarodRussell]

I'd say that only beaming between two transporter platforms is allowed.

Not sure about that. Im pretty sure Sisko said he used to appear in the dining room each night, and that place certainly didnt seem to have a transporter. Surely the guy doing the transport would just make sure it was in a place that was free of other objects, just like when they beam down to planets.

Then there is no privacy in the Federation. If someone in San Francisco can just scan a room in New Orleans. He has to make sure that no person, no dog, nor furniture is in the way, for instance. Imagine the uproar in public "Starfleet can scan our homes!"

Of course, when they wrote that episode, they meant that Sisko was indeed beamed into the living room. But I say that would be horse shit realistically.

 

[Timo]

It wouldn't matter if the vehicle was made for Starfleet.

So we have a flying vehicle in Starfleet colors, transporting a single top officer in comfort (with a pilot plus at least two personnel who make no effort to depart the vehicle after landing and Kirk's egress), operating out of Starfleet Headquarters - and we want to insist that it is evidence for some sort of public transportation? Makes no sense to me.

Sure, there might exist a public transport system based on flying vehicles in San Francisco, and perhaps in other cities as well. But Kirk's shuttle is hardly pointing in that direction - and if the system of which that shuttle is part extends outside SF HQ, then apparently the evidence we want is stretches of "rail" elsewhere in the city, since apparently those shuttles require such landing aids for some weird reason. We have several rails in view at SF HQ, and three vehicles, two of them larger than Kirk's and with at least two and possibly four doors; now all we need is more rails somewhere else!

One thing people forget about is security. Only trained personnel may use transporters.

I rather doubt that, actually. Only trained people can drive a tank, or a train. But any fool can drive a car, or travel by train. If civilian transporters exist, they are probably well and truly idiotproofed, and locked to only operate on a specific library of destination coordinates.

A civilian transporter might consist of an industrial-strength installation somewhere safe, plus a thousand home "pads" that are really just circles painted on the floor plus a call button on the wall (all stylishly designed, of course). Or/and there could be large terminals where people emerging from an arriving spacecraft or a public event or the like can all rush into and press their wrist selectors to choose an individual destination (much like Tom Paris did in "Non Sequitur"), and the machinery of the terminal sorts out the calls. For those without the wrist units, there'd be rows of booths... Doubling as suicide booths if need be, of course.

Since such systems would have all the hardware in locations the camera doesn't visit, they would support the observed lifestyle where people generally walk, sometimes ride an elevator, and once in a rare while take a flying vehicle. Those trains in Paris might be for sightseeing only...

Then there is no privacy in the Federation.

That's a well-established fact already: our heroes are always scanning various dwellings for lifesigns and their exact coordinates, without any indication that there'd be issues of consent involved.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[C.E. Evans]

It wouldn't matter if the vehicle was made for Starfleet.

So we have a flying vehicle in Starfleet colors, transporting a single top officer in comfort (with a pilot plus at least two personnel who make no effort to depart the vehicle after landing and Kirk's egress), operating out of Starfleet Headquarters - and we want to insist that it is evidence for some sort of public transportation? Makes no sense to me.

Makes perfect sense to me.

Sure, there might exist a public transport system based on flying vehicles in San Francisco, and perhaps in other cities as well.

I think that's the case, but even that probably isn't the most common form of public transportation. It may be high-speed subways. Both DS9 and VOY had Earth-based episodes that featured tunnel entrances around San Francisco with "Trans Francisco" transit system signs. I could see similar setups elsewhere across Earth, where people can travel anywhere in a city in a just a few minutes perhaps. Other modes of transportation--such as airtrams and even transporters--may be reserved for longer commutes (such as across an entire country or across the planet), IMO.

 

[TheLobes]

Then there is no privacy in the Federation. If someone in San Francisco can just scan a room in New Orleans. He has to make sure that no person, no dog, nor furniture is in the way, for instance. Imagine the uproar in public "Starfleet can scan our homes!".

I think it would do more along the lines of having some type of 'key', like if you belong to a certain household you have some kind of keycode or something that you input or give to the transporter guy in order to let you beam to certain locations. Remember 24th century earth is supposed to be like Ned Flanders land or something, where everyone trusts everyone else, so I dont think security and such would be a huge issue, and it would be Starfleet, it would be 'Beamco' or some such. Its not like scanning a house would show every nook and crany and secret, it would just be scanning an area to make sure there isnt anything there. People love convenience so much, im sure beaming home would be possible, someone would have had to have invented a way to make it work. I think Timo's suggestion sounds the most likely.

In terms of San Fran having a bunch of other ways to get around, I guess some people dont like transporters. We've already seen that Bones, that doctor from 2nd season tng and Barclay dont like them, and those guys are Starfleet. Im guessing the percentages go up in a civilian population. Its quicker for me to fly from London to Edinburgh, or London to Paris, maybe even a shade cheaper, but I usually take the train because thats the mode of transport I prefer.

By the by, this is probably a trek fact that everyone knows already, but the reason transporters were actually put into trek was because they couldnt afford the effects shot of a shuttle going down to a planet!

 

[T'Girl]

Starfleet has buildings across the golden gate strait from San Fransisco, on the southern tip of the Marin peninsula, we've seen them on a few occasions. That might have been where Kirk way coming from. It is possible that Kirk was just crossing the strait the fastest way possible in his excitement to see Admiral Nogura and get back aboard the Enterprise.

The 23rd century could have lacked the elaborate point to point transporter system of the 24th.