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How to save the CW Arrowverse?

There kinda heading for a 2.0 in that it seems S&L isn't connected to the Arrowverse so far. Naomi and stargirl seem to be the same .. Unconnected.
So if the connected series slowly die off then have only there own thing for abit might be a good change.
 
I don't really see where it needs to be saved, the older shows are coming to an end, but they've all had good runs, and they're still bringing in new shows.
 
Nothing lasts forever (one day even Star Trek will be gone). And new shows in new continuities can always hop universes to visit.
 
I suspect that threads like this will still pop up 10 years from now...

Seriously people will watch the shows they like and ignore the ones they do not. That has been going on since the Flash spun off from Arrow. Outside of the specific crossovers the Arrowverse is largely a marketing angle. A form of branding. Not very different from the actual comic books. The same applies to the Multiverse across film and tv. They only acknowledge it when it suits specific stories.

Not too secret spoiler.....

John Diggle played by David Ramsey will be appearing on multiple Arrowverse shows. Including Superman and Lois. Also the pandemic and production shutdowns delayed plans for all these shows. Specifically exploring what the post Crisis Arrowverse, Multiverse is like now
 
I think it may be time to let the "Arrowverse" go. I think future shows would benefit more from having a clear direction and style of their own than they would connecting to a bigger continuity. That seems to be the direction they're going anyway. You'd be hard-pressed to see the connection in later shows like Batwoman, Black Lightning and Superman & Lois where it's a name check at best.

Agreed, and with some shows, they operate in such a different universe of content and approach, that trying to even suggest a linked world seemed forced at best.

If they want to have a shared world I think they should put more effort into that and make it meaningful.

This.
 
They don't need to let it go. They have a solid formula that they could keep selling indefinably, or at least until pop culture trends change. The problem is absolutely the quality. And, non, S&L really isn't any better. It has a gray filter on the lens and people are more serious. But all the underlying foundation issues these shows have had the past few years still persist.

If they improved the quality of the product, there's no reason it can't continue. What they really need is to clean house with the creative team and install some new people at the top. But it seems Berlanti has handcuffed himself to the CW people much like Rhimes once did with ABC. (Though the difference being there was a time where Rhimes was at leas a damn good writer. So it was al little justified.)
 
(Though the difference being there was a time where Rhimes was at leas a damn good writer. So it was al little justified.)

looking at his IMDB credits, Bertlanti doesn't seem to have written much for the Arrowverse maybe 15 story ideas by and less then 5 written by's.

Most of his work/involvement has been creator/development/executive producer.
 
So a Berman effect? Producer wants it way X and even the most gifted writer withers at not having much freedom to try new things.
Not to mention studio interferance.. Telling the who they can use and not use. And it being a moving target.
Young minds , fresh ideas?
 
I will say, too, that I think, despite any perceived greater "success" the Arrowverse has had over the DCEU, I think a lot of the current issues do ultimately trace back to WB not just out righting emulating Marvel.

I know the big reason they didn't do it was because they were afraid of being called copycats. But a lot of that pushback could have been quelled by putting Dini or Timm in some sort of (ceremonial) executive position - if not out right making them the Feige counterpart. And I think the entirety of the cinematic DC brand would now be better for it.

*I know some have suggested Johns in the Feige role, but Timm and Dini have actually already done a multi-tiered universe to great success.
 
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I don't know if the Arrowverse "needs" saving or not, but I for one would like to see a movement away from its emphasis on costumed vigilantes. More fantasy/sandals and sorcery stuff might be nice, albeit tricky to produce in the cool Vancouver area...
 
I don't see why Vancouver would be a problem, a lot of that kind stuff films in places like England and Ireland, which aren't that far off in terms of scenery. Or are you are you talking more about desert stuff like Conan?
I don't think DC really has anything like that, most of their fantasy stuff is either modern, like Hellblazer and Justice League Dark, or European style fantasy like Demon Knights or Gemworld.
 
I am going to repost what I just posted in the Superman and Lois thread. COVID really messed up a lot of plans for the Arrowverse and a new interview confirms that.

http://www.kryptonsite.com/kryptonsite-interview-superman-lois-showrunner-ep-todd-helbing/?amp=1
Here is a new interview with Executive Producer and Show Runner Todd Helbing. Very revealing. It’s confirms what I have suspected for a long time. COVID changed everything. There was going to be a full crossover with Batwoman that had to be cancelled. (He does not mention it but I wonder if changing leads on Batwoman was an extra complication that this was bad time for it) Diggle’s 5 episodes across different series was going to be a specific arc. COVID stopped that too. He is still appearing on all those shows but less connected plot wise - I assume.

This show still is and always was part of the world of the other shows. The real world made it hard to spell that out as clearly as they planned.
 
Some more thoughts on this...

On the Marvel side (which is i think a reasonable comparison/standard), they have built a momentum that will keep it going for probably the next decade. Even if for some reason every single thing Marvel does from now until 2024 fails, there is still some juice to to keep going another 3 years, minimum. But realisitically, even if Phase 5 with Fantastic 4 and a revised X-Mne, completely fails worse than any other attempt the past 20 years, they

Marvel kinda over did it with the connections, in my opinion, with the Infinifty Stones in practically every movie... but it worked, not just for Endgame, but just bringing the universe together. SO we can get Dora Milajae in Falcon and WInter Soldier with zero problems, and it all makes sense. Again, they built the momentum so they could A) take risks with crazy stuff like Guardians of the Galaxy and WandaVision ... and they worked (as a whole), and set it up such that while some may want to stick with a particular creation (such as Black Panther), MANY people are excited to follow the next thing.... and have enough willing to even follow it through perhaps a rough start (my wife and oldest dropped WandaVision after the 1st episode, but me and my youngest held on, and felt rewarded).

And in both DC and Marvel comics, the heroes we have been seeing onscreen have been on the same planet (not just Earth, but that specific one), so it isn't unreasonable for many of us to want to have that...and it works for MCU.

It COULD work for DC, but DC feels to me like Sony was with Amazing SPiderman -- it seemed obvious that what they put out was more for getting money through the film rather than the joy of the IP itself. (i know it needs both, but the joy helps propel the success).

In regards to the Arrowverse, if they actually pace themselves, and market better, they might be able to keep it going.

I really with the movie side had worked WITH the TV side.... way back when Flash premiered, it really COULD have been integrated into a movie Justice League, and keep the big 3 on screen, and use the TV for the "2nd & 3rd tier", and the momentum could have fed each other.

One thing the Arrowverse seems to have that the DCFU does not is that even offscreen, it seems like the actors really like each other, and like to have fun with each other as well as with their Universe. They DCFU cast seems to kinda just be there for business, and then go their separate ways after the panel. The Arrowverse characters seem to have more fun (such as seen with the infamous Barry peace out meme at Oliver QUeen's grave), despite some hiccups (Andrew Kreisberg a couple years back, but now on a different vibe, with the way Brandon Routh and Domic Purcell have/are leaving)

The lack of planning, pacing and coordination over all of the live action stuff really is dividing a small fanbase, and not really growing a new one (the way Marvel has done).

They need to go back to what made Flash the number one show on the network when it first arrived --- it CLEARLY respected past work, in different genres. That made fans give it an exciting buzz, which created momentum to make it successful. It was its own thing that fans of previous work would totally respect and promote. That LOVE of the DC Universe is what's needed to make it work.
 
The problem is absolutely the quality. And, non, S&L really isn't any better. It has a gray filter on the lens and people are more serious. But all the underlying foundation issues these shows have had the past few years still persist.

Those are fightin' words to at least two board members.

But all the underlying foundation issues these shows have had the past few years still persist.

Personally, I will always view Black Lightning as the outlier--in the extreme--to the rest of the Arrowverse where the root motives the producers had for the series, the language it speaks and so much more are as dissimilar from the rest of the Arrowverse as anyone could imagine. The Akils and Oz Scott not sharing the same creative sensibilities of Berlanti, and others in that production house is one of the core reasons Black Lightning stands far above the rest of that franchise.
 
can't think of anything in recent time that's had as much content as the arrowverse/Berlanti productions.
Arrow was - 170 eps
Flash is currently 142 eps
Supergirl is currently at 130
Legends is currently at 84
Black Lightning will finish with 58
Stargirl has 13
Batwoman is at 33

That's currently 630 hours of broadcast tv which is quite an achievement.

When you put the numbers to it, it reminds me of the attitudes as Enterprise was ending. I think it's time to let go of this "Arrow verse" and make these shows their own thing. That's a lot of hours in a shared universe and right now it's just too repetitive.
 
One thing the Arrowverse seems to have that the DCFU does not is that even offscreen, it seems like the actors really like each other
Have you not seen the photo of Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman all in bed together? The team that lays together, stays together:p
 
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