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How to save the CW Arrowverse?

valkyrie013

Rear Admiral
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So according to this article. The cw shows are taking a crap in the ratings this season with new lows for all, including Flash apparently.
https://cosmicbook.news/flash-supergirl-batwoman-ratings-low?amp
So I guess my question would be, what would you do? What other hero shows would you add or produce?
Apparently Superman And Lois is doing pretty good in the ratings department.
For me id start fresh. Cancel all the currently going after this season and start again.
Start with a The Question series, followed by a booster gold and blue beetle series. Keep martian manhunter for that series. Keep Constantine around maybe a limited series a year.
Maybe a Static series.
And as Always, a batman beyond series.
What might work is to cut down on series length from 22 to 13. To many filler episodes.
Anyways.. I've watched them all, but I agree there getting stale. Thoughts.?
 
Well, cosmicbooknews being a crap source aside, I think the arrowverse has had a good run and should probably call it quits sooner rather than later at any rate.

Speaking for myself, I lost interest after Crisis on Infinite Earths.
 
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I find it just all played out in terms of is there really any 'fear' of anything? Barry will just give some positivity 'love conquers all' type speech and then the Flash wins.

The only problem is something I found funny watching Superman & Lois. You had people complaining "WELL THIS happened in crisis, and that happened in crisis. Why isn't it being reflected in the show?"

The more you require people to have watched a bunch of other stuff just to 'get' the backstory the less it makes them want to watch. The less 'connected' Superman & Lois is to the Arrowverse *THE BETTER* and that's reflected in the ratings imo. (Obviously SUPERMAN being a significant factor as well)

This is what happens with comic books. You gotta go through marvel or dc pedia's to understand stuff some of the time and it just puts off possible new readers.

The MCU will wind up at this point.
 
So according to this article. The cw shows are taking a crap in the ratings this season with new lows for all, including Flash apparently.
https://cosmicbook.news/flash-supergirl-batwoman-ratings-low?amp
So I guess my question would be, what would you do? What other hero shows would you add or produce?
Apparently Superman And Lois is doing pretty good in the ratings department.
For me id start fresh. Cancel all the currently going after this season and start again.
Start with a The Question series, followed by a booster gold and blue beetle series. Keep martian manhunter for that series. Keep Constantine around maybe a limited series a year.
Maybe a Static series.
And as Always, a batman beyond series.
What might work is to cut down on series length from 22 to 13. To many filler episodes.
Anyways.. I've watched them all, but I agree there getting stale. Thoughts.?
While I myself haven't really been keeping up with the CW DC series (I have been watching Superman and Lois and will probably at least complete this first season of it); I have to wonder how many viewers are just going to the CW website and streaming the new episodes at their convenience. It's completely free (with built-in advertising of course); But if people are used to streaming, once they know that the series are available online the morning after they're aired on the CW, there may be a number of people who are just going to the website and watching it there.

I'm sure the CW brass has to figure that in because if they didn't, or somehow felt putting it up on the website was detrimental to their bottom line; they would discontinue the practice but they haven't.

But as many have said, I enjoyed the first seasons of most of the DC CW shows; But yeah for every single series, things started to go downhill starting with their second seasons. Supergirl actually started out strong in its second season but that for me was because they did decide to bring in Superman (and in my opinion did a better job with the character at the start of that than any of the Snyder DCEU films); But after that things went South quick.

I didn't enjoy the yearly crossover team ups, and overall I did enjoy their Crisis on Infinite Earths; But after what, 30 or so seasons across 5 series with pretty much the exact same formulaic execution... Personally I'm amazed they've kept it going as long as they have.
 
Supergirl and Black Lightning are already ending after this season, Arrow's done and Superman& Lois and Stargirl are having/had good first outings. Flash is on its last legs, but Legends of Tomorrow is still fun. Batwoman's not a favourite of mine, but I think they handled the casting change well. I'm still on board with whatever they come out with next, and hope with vaccines rolling out they'll be able to do annual crossovers again. I'm a comic book geek and I just love a big bunch of super heroes getting together: I can't help myself.
 
The less 'connected' Superman & Lois is to the Arrowverse *THE BETTER*
:techman:
This is what happens with comic books. You gotta go through marvel or dc pedia's to understand stuff some of the time and it just puts off possible new readers.
It puts off this not-new reader. When I buy a Superman comic, I buy it to read about Superman and his supporting cast. Period. I don't want guest characters from other comics I don't read, crossover "event" storylines, etc., cluttering up the book.

As for the Arrowverse, I did a purge this season, and the only shows I still watch are Black Lightning, Supergirl, and Superman & Lois. With the former two ending, S&L will be Last Show Standing (though if Painkiller and/or Naomi go to series, that might change).
 
We found It too much the same, the cast is too big and they (almost) all have superpowers. My wife and I quit Supergirl and I don't know if I will continue Flash and legends. So we watch only Superman and Lois.
 
There's no real saving it at this point but that doesn't change that fact that it had a good run.

But even leaving aside the Marvel shows on Disney+ Titans and Doom Patrol have so much more money spent on them, and the upcoming Green Lantern show will have even more. The first season of Stargirl was great but I shudder to think what it's going to look like on a CW budget.
 
I think it may be time to let the "Arrowverse" go. I think future shows would benefit more from having a clear direction and style of their own than they would connecting to a bigger continuity. That seems to be the direction they're going anyway. You'd be hard-pressed to see the connection in later shows like Batwoman, Black Lightning and Superman & Lois where it's a name check at best.

If they want to have a shared world I think they should put more effort into that and make it meaningful.
 
There's no real saving it at this point but that doesn't change that fact that it had a good run.

can't think of anything in recent time that's had as much content as the arrowverse/Berlanti productions.
Arrow was - 170 eps
Flash is currently 142 eps
Supergirl is currently at 130
Legends is currently at 84
Black Lightning will finish with 58
Stargirl has 13
Batwoman is at 33

That's currently 630 hours of broadcast tv which is quite an achievement.
 
Cancel or retire everything except Superman an Stargirl. Return to the Smallville universe and do a show about President Lex Luthor. A Catwoman show. A Supergirl tv movie.
 
I said this in other threads...but they messed up by having ALL their shows AT THE SAME TIME. They should have limited it to 2 or 3 per season (fall, springish, summerish). One serious (Arrow, Black Lightning, Batwoman), 1 "traditional"/team (Flash, Supergirl, StarGirl), the last miscellaneous (like the goofy Legends).

Oversaturation has killed it.

Marvel has been smart to space things out. That way if like a couple of things they are good, but it also makes room for Ubercart who want to follow it all.
 
I said this in other threads...but they messed up by having ALL their shows AT THE SAME TIME. They should have limited it to 2 or 3 per season (fall, springish, summerish). One serious (Arrow, Black Lightning, Batwoman), 1 "traditional"/team (Flash, Supergirl, StarGirl), the last miscellaneous (like the goofy Legends).

Oversaturation has killed it.

Marvel has been smart to space things out. That way if like a couple of things they are good, but it also makes room for Ubercart who want to follow it all.

Marvel has the advantage of being on platform where they aren't having to fill as many time slots and people will come and gone with subscriptions.

The CW being broadcast are probably stuck in and hamstrung by the traditions of broadcast tv.
 
Well, cosmicbooknews being a crap source aside, I think the arrowverse has had a good run and should probably call it quits sooner rather than later at any rate.
Indeed. By volume if nothing else, it's been an incredible success, unprecedented in the realm of live-action superhero TV, but, All Good Things...

That's currently 630 hours of broadcast tv which is quite an achievement.
Quite. Although, the combined Law & Order/Chicago franchise currently totals a whopping 1,675 episodes! ;)
 
Eh, if it dies it dies.

Indeed, since most of the series have been underwhelming to just plain awful. This TV franchise had only one great series--Black Lightning--but that ends this month.

Regarding the Arrowverse episode count, it is not that uncommon when you think about the numbers of other interconnected series. For example writer/producer Paul Henning (creator of The Beverly Hillbillies), had two connected series--Petticoat Junction and Green Acres with a combined episode count of 392. Garry Marshall's linked series Happy Days, Laverne and Shirley, Mork and Mindy, Joanie Loves Chachi, Blanksy's Beauties and Out of the Blue totaling 566. There are others, of course, but racking up episode numbers within a TV franchise is common. The bigger issue is--in consideration of the OP's question--quality, and cultural longevity.
 
The first question that came to mind when I saw this thread was does the Arrowverse need to survive? Maybe it's simply ran it's course, and if that's the case it's had a pretty good run. I mean, the shared universe is heading toward a decade now, and it's not the hot new thing anymore. I think what it was able to do, mostly impressively early, has become a bit old hat now, especially now that Marvel is back in the game with WandaVision and Falcon & The Winter Soldier, with Loki and all the others coming up. And even within their own corporate house HBO Max now has Titans, Doom Patrol, and soon will have Peacemaker and a Green Lantern series, and HBO Max can push boundaries that the Arrowverse can't, and that might be enough to get some eyeballs who have become bored by the Arrowverse.

My love for it as waned over time. Loved the first couple seasons of Arrow and was impressed by The Flash as well. Also really enjoyed the first seasons of Black Lightning and Supergirl. I was iffy on Legends and let Batwoman go after the pilot episode, though I did see the first season finale in preparation for season two, and I've looked at it off and on. Black Lightning started losing me in the second season, though I do come back to it from time to time, and have looked at most of the final season. And Supergirl started losing me in the second season, but Lex brought me back for a while, but I can't recall if I've looked at even one episode this season. Superman & Lois started off better than I thought it would, but do I have high hopes for sustained success? Not for me, because I've generally liked the first season of each Arrowverse show so S&L so far isn't out of the ordinary there.

One of the issues is that these series go on so long that everyone becomes superpowered or a superhero and that crowds or takes away from the central character. Another is that the shared universe doesn't have anywhere to go after "Crisis on Infinite Earths". They could do the other "Crisis" books but it won't be as special as the first time, and I felt they flubbed the first time. I don't down them too much because I think they really wanted to give the fans what they wanted, and I loved some of the cameos, but their reach exceeded their grasp.

I don't think the Arrowverse can be saved, but the question is an intriguing one, so I'll attempt to rescue it. I like the idea of starting from zero, but I would not cancel all the existing series. While they have declining viewership, there are still viewers out there and fans of each series.

Instead I would try to usher them into where I was going with them by doing some retooling and soft, or not so soft rebooting, and Arrowverse 2.0.
-Saying all that, I would bring Flash to a close next season. And I would start looking toward the end of Legends as well.
-If Superman & Lois are the hot ticket right now, revolve the Arrowverse around them, like how it revolved around Oliver in the past.
-Batwoman: I would turn Batwoman into the gritty, dark, vigilante series that's been missing since Arrow's first two seasons. I also would look to Black Lightning and get some of their writers because they know how to craft better written black characters and mix in discussions of race and black history/culture than I've seen with the Batwoman writers thus far. Basically Superman/Lois and Batwoman become what Flash and Arrow were for Arrowverse 1.0. For those who might be put off by the exploration of race, gender, and sexuality, they might stick around because of stunning, brutal action, and some vicious takes on Gotham's criminals. If that doesn't work for Batwoman, I would do a Kate Spencer Manhunter series (ignoring the Arrowverse version of Spencer that's already there). I also wished we had gotten an Emiko Green Arrow sequel series. The proposed Painkiller series might already fit this bill, however, I feel Batwoman needs more of an edge.
-Swamp Thing: I would bring Swamp Thing back. They don't really have a dedicated magic/horror series, and Swamp Thing could fit the bill.
-The Atom: Can't have magic without science, and I wouldn't mind seeing a Ryan Choi series that also fills the gap left by Flash when it comes to a more science/science fiction based series.
-Amazon: I thought this was an idea they should've gone with. Not sure who was supposed to be the main character, but I would've gone with Cassie Sandsmark.
-Justice League crossover: If there are no plans for a League movie anytime soon this could be the next crossover, and it could bring back Flash, Black Lightning, Supergirl, Martian Manhunter, and other legacy Arrowverse characters.
-Not sure what I would do about Painkiller, Naomi, and Stargirl in my imagined Arrowverse 2.0 I'm inclined to keep them to see how they fare, because having younger skewing characters is a good idea. I think a Young Justice live-action crossover or series could be neat, and also a chance to bring back Thunder & Lightning, Kid Flash, and others.
-Loved the ideas about a Static and Question series, though I think Hardware could work as well for bringing in a Milestone character to lead a series.
 
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