How to Fix Star Trek Generations [Article]
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Good point. Or if not that --
If the writers had done a little research and wanted to be really clever and even sentimental rather than just make something up, when Guinan sends Picard to Kirk, he would've found himself on a beach at sunset about fifty yards from a man and woman walking along the beach toward him, hand-in-hand. It's obvious to the audience and Picard even from that distance that the man is Kirk. The couple stop to kiss and then keep walking towards Picard. Her head is on his shoulder, and his arm is around her waste. Both look perfectly content and happy. When Picard finally gets close enough to greet them, it is apparent to all TOS fans that the woman with Kirk looks a lot like Janis Rand. Kirk finally found his beach to walk on.
The discussion between Kirk and Picard about the reality of the nexus and the gist of what was said in the Idaho scene in the movie can go on from there. As Kirk leaves the nexus, he could say one more time as he leaves Rand, "No beach to walk on."
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In the Nexus he could have had both. He could have a fine adventure on the Enterprise, then walk off the bridge straight into his perfect domestic life. Picard would've tried to convince him how unreal this situation was, but the Nexus has the power to cloud men's minds, making even an individualist like Kirk blind to the impossibility of his situation. In the end, Picard would have to remind Kirk that he had witnessed his son's death, and that tragedy would bring Kirk back to the need to do what must be done.
Yeah ... He could say, "Oh, for pity sake, Will - you passed your docking maneuver test with flying colors back at Farpoint, but you can't avoid crashing the thing into an entire planet! Lousy driving, Number One ... lousy driving."
Carol Marcus? Why her of all the lovers Kirk has had through the years? Kirk probably parted company with her for sound reasons, and finding out later that Gray Mitchell engineered the whole thing might have soured Kirk's feeling of Carol in general.
^ I agree T'Girl, this idea of Carol Marcus being "the one" has IMO been rather over-stated over the years.
(And for those who'd say "But but but DAVID MARCUS", who are we to believe that David Marcus was Kirk's only spawnling? He's simply the only one we saw, and there's nothing in TWOK, TSFS or TUC that suggests anywhere that he's Kirk only son... )
It's like I said earlier, I could possibly have believed in this previously-unmentioned Antonia as being Kirk's long lost "The Girl I Wish I'd Married", if only the script had spent some time actually introducing her to us (or even introducing her at all, instead of keeping her off-screen
). Instead, we just get told by Kirk that she was The One, without any evidence for why. We should've seen some evidence of their supposedly great relationship, instead of seeing Kirk and Picard making an omelette. But no, good storytelling is not what Generations was about. 
(And for those who'd say "But but but DAVID MARCUS", who are we to believe that David Marcus was Kirk's only spawnling? He's simply the only one we saw, and there's nothing in TWOK, TSFS or TUC that suggests anywhere that he's Kirk only son...
) It's like I said earlier, I could possibly have believed in this previously-unmentioned Antonia as being Kirk's long lost "The Girl I Wish I'd Married", if only the script had spent some time actually introducing her to us (or even introducing her at all, instead of keeping her off-screen
). Instead, we just get told by Kirk that she was The One, without any evidence for why. We should've seen some evidence of their supposedly great relationship, instead of seeing Kirk and Picard making an omelette. But no, good storytelling is not what Generations was about. 
I agree with Lance and particulary Praxius. Without bringing the quotes down with this post (you have read them, I am sure) I remember how I felt seeing the two (Generations) on-screen, and it was pretty darned good. the sound track helped things along nicely, and is there a better line in all of Scotty-dom then when Chekov asks if anyone was in there, and Scotty says "Aye."
I still tear up.
I still tear up.
^ I agree T'Girl, this idea of Carol Marcus being "the one" has IMO been rather over-stated over the years.
(And for those who'd say "But but but DAVID MARCUS", who are we to believe that David Marcus was Kirk's only spawnling? He's simply the only one we saw, and there's nothing in TWOK, TSFS or TUC that suggests anywhere that he's Kirk only son...
It's like I said earlier, I could possibly have believed in this previously-unmentioned Antonia as being Kirk's long lost "The Girl I Wish I'd Married", if only the script had spent some time actually introducing her to us (or even introducing her at all, instead of keeping her off-screen
Isn't the Nexus supposed to be about your deepest desire?Perhaps Kirk's deepest desire was to have a co-operative 'idealised' Carol Marcus who was a 'good' wife and they raised David together while he still scooted around the galaxy.
I think Kirk's ideal fantasy (G rated) would be to live out his life with Edith while still saving the future. Joan Collins is still pretty good looking. So she could have resurrected her role as Edith so to speak.
The Antonia stuff and horse riding just seems a Shatner fantasy. Written by people who had little knowledge or care about TOS.
Interesting you say that, because by some accounts (I think it might even have been in Shatner's own "Movie Memories" book) those aspects were enhanced after Shatner complained about the original draft that 'Kirk isn't integral to the script'. So they were very much a Shatner-pleasing measure.
(I'd argue that Kirk still isn't integral to the script in the finished version, though.
)
Interesting you say that, because by some accounts (I think it might even have been in Shatner's own "Movie Memories" book) those aspects were enhanced after Shatner complained about the original draft that 'Kirk isn't integral to the script'. So they were very much a Shatner-pleasing measure.
(I'd argue that Kirk still isn't integral to the script in the finished version, though.
He wasn't.
The nexus scene is so flawed, even with the "Shatner enhancements." IMO, the woman could have been Marcus, or it could've been Rand as I suggested above (if it had been her, that would've been most likely the fulfillment of a real Kirk fantasy). Heck, it could've been Miramanee or Edith Keeler, and it would've probably created a more poignant scene than than what we got. (Though Shatner was able to get them to let him show us his horsemanship. So he at least got a certain amount of ego fulfillment.)
The problem is the movie is meant to be all about Picard's journey so they were never going to spend extra creative thought and time with Kirk's story.
Interesting you say that, because by some accounts (I think it might even have been in Shatner's own "Movie Memories" book) those aspects were enhanced after Shatner complained about the original draft that 'Kirk isn't integral to the script'. So they were very much a Shatner-pleasing measure.
(I'd argue that Kirk still isn't integral to the script in the finished version, though.
He wasn't.
The nexus scene is so flawed, even with the "Shatner enhancements." IMO, the woman could have been Marcus, or it could've been Rand as I suggested above (if it had been her, that would've been most likely the fulfillment of a real Kirk fantasy). Heck, it could've been Miramanee or Edith Keeler, and it would've probably created a more poignant scene than than what we got. (Though Shatner was able to get them to let him show us his horsemanship. So he at least got a certain amount of ego fulfillment.)
If they were going to have the 'Nexus' I would just exchange Picard and Kirk with Data and Picard and have Data convincing Picard to give up the Nexus. That would have made a little more sense. Don't have Berman involve the TOS characters who he didn't care for (and frankly didn't need) in his first major screen TNG movie.
The problem is the movie is meant to be all about Picard's journey so they were never going to spend extra creative thought and time with Kirk's story.Interesting you say that, because by some accounts (I think it might even have been in Shatner's own "Movie Memories" book) those aspects were enhanced after Shatner complained about the original draft that 'Kirk isn't integral to the script'. So they were very much a Shatner-pleasing measure.
(I'd argue that Kirk still isn't integral to the script in the finished version, though.
He wasn't.
The nexus scene is so flawed, even with the "Shatner enhancements." IMO, the woman could have been Marcus, or it could've been Rand as I suggested above (if it had been her, that would've been most likely the fulfillment of a real Kirk fantasy). Heck, it could've been Miramanee or Edith Keeler, and it would've probably created a more poignant scene than than what we got. (Though Shatner was able to get them to let him show us his horsemanship. So he at least got a certain amount of ego fulfillment.)
If they were going to have the 'Nexus' I would just exchange Picard and Kirk with Data and Picard and have Data convincing Picard to give up the Nexus. That would have made a little more sense. Don't have Berman involve the TOS characters who he didn't care for (and frankly didn't need) in his first major screen TNG movie.
I tend to agree with all that when I think about it. Kirk seemed shoe-horned into the movie without a lot of care or even thought.
It would've been very interesting for Data (especially with his new emotion chip) to have to be the one to talk Picard out of the nexus. Data would have to explain to Picard how his current emotional state is altered and he's not really in control. It would've linked the parts of the movie where Data dealing with his emotion chip (mostly comic relief) to actually being experiences that gave Date some ability to relate to Picard's state at a crucial time.
I disagree that not seeing Kirk's perfect wife in the Nexus is a problem. Whoever they chose for the part, the chances of us being convinced that she is indeed Kirk's perfect woman are remote. Also, when Kirk agrees to leave the Nexus, he would either not return to the house to say goodbye (prompting fan-angst), or there would be a long, involved and superfluous-to-the-plot breakup scene. As it is, her absence contributes to the dreaminess of the Nexus setting.
I can't believe I am defending this stuff. A better choice would have been to totally omit Kirk's fantasy home life, but if it had to be done this was the better way.
ALTHOUGH - they could have done a thing where the instant Kirk stops believing in the reality of something it disappears, so first his horse, then his wife, then his house vanish, until finally they are just suspended in a void.
How DID they get out of the Nexus, anyway?
I can't believe I am defending this stuff. A better choice would have been to totally omit Kirk's fantasy home life, but if it had to be done this was the better way.
ALTHOUGH - they could have done a thing where the instant Kirk stops believing in the reality of something it disappears, so first his horse, then his wife, then his house vanish, until finally they are just suspended in a void.
How DID they get out of the Nexus, anyway?
The trouble with brining in anyone like Rand of Marcus or Keeler is that it only makes sense to serious fans and not to general movie audiences. Sure, you could have the appropriate actresses there in place of "Antonia" and the fans would get it automatically but there'd be no foul for the rest of the audience, but it's a fine line to walk and make it work for both audiences without making a big deal out of it.
I think a few lines about a dead 'only' child could have bought the general audience in for say Carol Marcus.
But I'm certain that Berman et.al, were unwilling to devote extra screen time on something that's not their creation. Better they thought to pull this Antonia out of the bag.
But I don't think the unseen Antonia or the population of Veridian 2 or 3 caught the sympathies of the general or fan-base audience either.
For me, the best thing about Generations was the appearance of Kirk, Scotty and Chekov. My favorite scene was the opening scene, with the TOS trio aboard the Enterprise B on her maiden flight. And I enjoyed the other scenes that Kirk was in.
And therein lies the problem with Generations.
The presence of the TOS characters in the movie reminded me of what was so lacking about TNG. The TOS characters put the TNG characters to shame. Kirk, Scotty, Chekov and the rest of the TOS crew had colorful, dynamic and memorable personalities, whereas the TNG crew (with the exception of Picard) were bland, dull and rather forgettable characters.
The movie could have overcome that, though, with a better story and a more inspired acting effort by the TNG cast. But that didn't happen. GEN came across more like a glorified 2 hour TNG episode with guest appearances by Shatner, Doohan and Koenig. As a saving grace, it would have made a decent 2 part episode.
The appearance of Kirk and crew in a TNG movie was a double edged sword imo. It could have enhanced a good movie, or it could have stolen the show from a relatively weaker cast. For me, it did the latter.
I don't quite agree with that, but it really doesn't matter anyway, because it was never Kirk who wanted to settle down. The movie itself builds the idea that it was Picard who regretted not settling down once he realized that the family name would stop with his dead brother and nephew. All Kirk wanted to do was get back in the center seat of the Enterprise. He never wanted to retire and settle down in some stupid log cabin with Carol, Antonia, or anyone!
Now with that said, one could speculate that Kirk isn't actually in the Nexus at all, and that he is just an illusion created by the Nexus for Picard's benefit (as was Guinan, who pointed Kirk out to Picard). That would explain why Kirk's fantasy makes no sense in the context of what we see at the start of the film, but in fact is analogous to Picard's similar fantasy about settling down and having a family. Which would mean that Picard never actually left the Nexus and is living in blissful ignorance in Nexus-land, and that Kirk really did die on the Enterprise-B.
I agree that I doubt it was Kirks fantasy to settle down because if it was then he was retired and had every opportunity to do it out of the Nexus.
Kirk and Picard weren't some poor saps like you and me. They had a choice of the ladies. But we all know that Shatner's fantasy would probably be to go back to his heyday in TOS-land. Picard could have had Beverly and probably a few other ladies too if he wanted to.
GEN's version of Kirk's and Picard's fantasy only makes sense if the Nexus made it happen based on your thoughts as you were entering the Nexus or just fulfilled random fantasies.
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