How Thor breaks down racial barriers in Asgard

[Mr. Adventure]

So are we all good with the casting in The Last Airbender now?

 

[mswood]

Well it is odd that we would judge the material of a comic and expect the live action versions to match the material. Frankly they will never come close. Hell we have a wolverine who's height is 11 inches off, actors that are so far away from the body structure of the characters they are playing to be off by a huge, huge degree, and yet we as viewers have embraced them.

Oh and by the way their has been a black superman named Clark Kent, rocketed to earth from the planet Krypton so clearly they could do it. Wonders of DC and its millions of alternate universes that are often very similar with just some small differences.

I mean hell Perez's Wonder women is way the hell different then the original artist interpretation, yet Perez's wonder women has been considered the true frame work for the character for the last 3o years.

Even in comics they feel free to change and update their characters, not only in backstory but in appearance as well.

Now personally should they have? I honestly would prefer a more nordic look asgard, but even the comics don't try to do that, at all. Nor do I think teh warriors three will look any where near what the body structure and appearance they have inteh comics. So if I can accept that why should another visual element bother me?

 

[Aragorn]

In LOTR, they could have easily cast actors of color, but they didn't. In fact, the white people are essentially the good guys and everybody else are the bad guys. Nobody questioned the filmmakers' motivations. Nobody thought it was a big deal. They were just following the book.

Not true. There were plenty of people crying racism over it, even going back to calling the novels racist.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

What bothers me is why people want to see Will Smith as Superman.

This isn't complicated at all:

A lot of people really, really like Will Smith. It's not as if casting a guy who looks like the comic book drawings of Superman has ever guaranteed a good movie, so why get more wrapped up in that than in casting actors we like to watch?

One thing that putting Smith in any one of these movies would virtually guarantee is that more than enough people would enjoy the movie to make it a success.

As for "disrespecting the artist," Superman is one case where nothing the studios could come up with would disrespect the creators any more than the corporation that owns him already has.

On the other note, white kids in America are in no danger of running short on popular culture fictional heroes that look just like them - if "of the same ethnic background" is what's meant by "looking like them."

I'd like the idea of Zoe Saldana as Wonder Woman for the same reason as Smith/Superman, BTW - because I'd rather watch Saldana in a movie than any of the other actors that Internet comic fans throw around as possible casting for the character based on no better reasons than ethnicity and big tits.

 

[darkwing_duck1]

It's one thing to not pay attention to race if the story is explicitly about race, and another to not pay attention to race when it's entirely immaterial to the story.

Right. For a character like the Black Panther, say, it's a significant part of the character concept that he's an African prince; a white actor would be very dissonant. But for a lot of white comic book characters, their race is not really significant; the comic book writers just tended to make everyone white by default. So using black actors for some of them would not be a big dissonance.

Like hell it isn't. Keep your PC off my superheroes!

If you want an ethnic hero to show "diversity", do the hard work of developing an original character and putting it out there for public inspection. Stop trying to co-opt existing characters for your political agenda.

 

[Skywalker]

It's one thing to not pay attention to race if the story is explicitly about race, and another to not pay attention to race when it's entirely immaterial to the story.

Right. For a character like the Black Panther, say, it's a significant part of the character concept that he's an African prince; a white actor would be very dissonant. But for a lot of white comic book characters, their race is not really significant; the comic book writers just tended to make everyone white by default. So using black actors for some of them would not be a big dissonance.

Like hell it isn't. Keep your PC off my superheroes!

But they're not your superheroes, they're Marvel's (well, just for example), and Marvel can do whatever they want with them.

 

[darkwing_duck1]

One wonders now what he thinks of that William Shatner/Nichelle Nichols kiss.

Have no problem with it whatsoever. This isn't about race. This is about inappropriate stunt casting for the purpose of "representing diversity".

Tell you what...I'll agree that this casting is ok if YOU'LL agree (and MEAN it) that it would be ok for a white actor to play Booker Washington, or Kunta Kinte, or any other black character.

 

[Hermiod]

So, see, the solution is to simply make black heroes and female heroes deny anything about authentic black or female experience and fit into the dominant white male cultural norm for what a hero is and all the white males who have no ability to understand or appreciate the unique experience of people different from them won't be put off and everything will be great. Don't you get it? It's so simple!

Or, you could just carry on moaning and complaining, blaming everyone else for the rest of your life. You know how much progress you make doing that ? None. Zero.

It will always be a matter of us and them with people like you.

If you think patronising people does anything to help them then you go ahead. See if it's made a difference in a hundred year's time.

 

[Hermiod]

This isn't complicated at all:

A lot of people really, really like Will Smith. It's not as if casting a guy who looks like the comic book drawings of Superman has ever guaranteed a good movie, so why get more wrapped up in that than in casting actors we like to watch?

First, because Superman should be played by an unknown. Not Will Smith playing Will Smith playing Superman.

Second, because Will Smith does not look like Superman, even if he spent hours in the make up trailer every day. He's too old too.

Third, because it's patronising stunt casting done for no reason other than to make a few Hollywood types feel like they're being progressive.

As for "disrespecting the artist," Superman is one case where nothing the studios could come up with would disrespect the creators any more than the corporation that owns him already has.

It's a cliché but two wrongs do not make a right.

I'd like the idea of Zoe Saldana as Wonder Woman for the same reason as Smith/Superman, BTW - because I'd rather watch Saldana in a movie than any of the other actors that Internet comic fans throw around as possible casting for the character based on no better reasons than ethnicity and big tits.

Sure, Saldana is better for the job than a lot of the "actors" suggested. Wonder Woman is a problem. You can't cast her full stop.

From a purely personal point of view, women playing comic book characters should look the part and fit the damned costume - male actors playing superheroes have to spend their lives in the gym, after all. Some tiny, skinny blonde girl with a wig on and a baggy costume isn't Wonder Woman and Halle Berry sure as hell ain't Storm.

That's why ScarJo is such a good choice for Black Widow.

 

[Thespeckledkiwi]

One wonders now what he thinks of that William Shatner/Nichelle Nichols kiss.

Have no problem with it whatsoever. This isn't about race. This is about inappropriate stunt casting for the purpose of "representing diversity".

Tell you what...I'll agree that this casting is ok if YOU'LL agree (and MEAN it) that it would be ok for a white actor to play Booker Washington, or Kunta Kinte, or any other black character.

So says the poster with a Dixie flag in their avatar.

I applaud Marvel for looking beyond color and just casting the best actors they can find for each role.

I mean hell, Kingpin was white in the comics and black in the movie.

 

[GodThingFormerly]

The fact that Zorro is Spanish didnt stop generations of white kids from worshipping him.

Not really surprising, considering that Spaniards are by any definition "white" Europeans.

SLR

 

[Thespeckledkiwi]

I want Hippie Thor! HIPPIE!

 

[Nerys Myk]

The fact that Zorro is Spanish didnt stop generations of white kids from worshipping him.

Not really surprising, considering that Spaniards are by any definition "white" Europeans.

SLR

Depends on who and when you ask. I'm sure there were time The Spanish were thought of as not quite "white" by someone somewhere. Dehumanizing the enemy and making them "the other" is a old propaganda technique.

 

[Hermiod]

^Yeah, I'm with Eddie Olmos on that one.

 

[Rincewiend]

With the majority of ethnic superheroes/villains their background is part of who they are to a much larger degree then with the white ones...
But still, with the constant retcons to keep the ages etc. current i don't see how any of them, whatever the skincolour/background, could be from a very different origin...

 

[Agenda]

Isn't Wonder Woman supposed to be a Greek amazon?

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Isn't Wonder Woman supposed to be a Greek amazon?

Hmm, and if we're going to be true to the mythic tradition then doesn't the actor playing her need to be missing her right tit? That's part of the classical Greek legend, after all - supposedly made it easier for them to use bows and spears.

Oh - we're only playing the "true to myth" card when it keeps white actors employed? Sorry.

 

[Greg Cox]

Isn't Wonder Woman supposed to be a Greek amazon?

Hmm, and if we're going to be true to the mythic tradition then doesn't the actor playing her need to be missing her right tit? That's part of the classical Greek legend, after all - supposedly made it easier for them to use bows and spears.

Oh - we're only playing the "true to myth" card when it keeps white actors employed? Sorry.

Exactly. Last time I checked, the classical Amazons didn't have magic lassos, purple healing rays, bullet-proof bracelets, or invisible airplanes. So why worry about making sure their skin color is historically authentic?

We're talking fantasy Amazons, not reality.

I'm reminded of a discussion of DAREDEVIL years ago, in which an indignant poster insisted that a black Mafia kingpin was unbelievable and an insult to his intelligence.

As opposed to a blind vigilante and a sexy Greek ninja?

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

I'm reminded of a discussion of DAREDEVIL years ago, in which an indignant poster insisted that a black Mafia kingpin was unbelievable and an insult to his intelligence.

As opposed to a blind vigilante and a sexy Greek ninja?

Reverend Jim (Taxi): "I loved Star Trek because it was so true to life. Except for the Romulan Commander - he did things no Romulan would ever do."

 

[Kegg]

How often did Wonder Woman look Greek, anyway? More often than not her actress is a little whiter than that, if one gets my drift... and isn't she an Amazon? They're a Greek myth but they're a Greek myth about non-Greeks.

Tell you what...I'll agree that this casting is ok if YOU'LL agree (and MEAN it) that it would be ok for a white actor to play Booker Washington, or Kunta Kinte, or any other black character.

I'm not sure why my agreement would be all that relevant (what would I as a white guy be conceding here?); but others have addressed this elsewhere: Context does inform casting decisions. Booker Washington was a real person and the fact he was black is important; while Colonel Tigh was not a real person and the fact he was black is irrelvant. And the Kunta Kinte of Alex Haley's Roots is of course defined by his African origins.

Heimdall is a Marvel 'reinvention' of a Norse god, and this simply is following the conventions of such Americanization, many of which are accepted without question, such as the characters all speaking English.

Basically, casting him black isn't playing more fast and loose with the source material than the comic already is, nor is he being white as essential for the character as the examples listed.