How Thor breaks down racial barriers in Asgard

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Works for me. Whether a "nordic god" should look like a northern European at all depends, of course, on whether you start with the premise that they created humans or that humans created them.

 

[Myasishchev]

Thor as a doctor,

That's not a retcon, that's a plot development.

alien Thors like the hammer was a Green Lantern ring, etc.).

You don't like Beta Ray Bill? (and that's also not a retcon; that's a story development perfectly in keeping with the ground rules established for who can lift Thor's hammer)

"Retcon" used in a very liberal sense, as retconned from the Norse myth. But I see your point, and yeah, I like Beta Ray Bill. It's just kinda, I dunno, off the point.

No, I believe Romeo did kill Paris - at least I remember "I am Fortune's fool!" was a big moment in the film and that comes after he knocks off Paris doesn't it?

He says that after killing Tybalt.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, that's bogus. To me, the death of the Prince's cousins is a hugely important part of the story. "All are punished" means more when he's speaking from a personal place, and not just in his role as the ruler of Verona. Hell, the line doesn't even make sense unless you're told earlier that Paris and Mercutio are the Prince's family:

Where be these enemies? Capulet! Montague!
See, what a scourge is laid upon your hate,
That heaven finds means to kill your joys with love!
And I, for winking at your discords too,
Have lost a brace of kinsmen. All are punish'd.

It's been a long time since I've seen the flick, but I know this part's got to be in there...

 

[Dusty Ayres]

Yeah, exactly. That's why I didn't mind it.

But let's take another modern Shakespearean production, where race didn't matter (but family was paramount)--Luhrman's Romeo and Juliet. It would have been a problem if the Prince and Mercutio weren't the same race, or at least plausibly related, and it sucked that Paris was this lily white, Paul Rudd-looking dork. Now, I'll grant that Luhrman didn't care that the three were all related, but it sort of bothered me. Paris should've been a black guy, and they should have been related, because the innocent family's body count from the idiocy of the feud should be the same as the Capulets and Montagues (2 for each).

Thinking on it, does Romeo actually even kill Paris in Luhrman's version? I remember something important being left out, and it might've been that.

No, I believe Romeo did kill Paris - at least I remember "I am Fortune's fool!" was a big moment in the film and that comes after he knocks off Paris doesn't it?

What is left out is any mention of family relations between the Prince, Paris and Mercutio. Not that that really matters in a Shakespeare production where it has become commonplace not to worry about matching related characters up racially in many productions.

Well, in full frankness, even though I've generally liked the character and his series(es), the Marvel Thor mythology nevertheless kinda bugs me with its retcons of the source material (Loki, adopted son of Odin? huh?, Thor as a blond, Thor as a doctor, alien Thors like the hammer was a Green Lantern ring, etc.). So I guess it probably is immaterial, given the other issues, if Heimdall's black.

Exactly. Their Thor is so far removed from anything actually Norse how could it possibly matter that not everyone looks Nordic? Though, I do find the blatant tokenism of a lot of this sort of casting to be fairly obnoxious. Then again, considering how difficult it is for anyone of color to pull a role, I'm sure they're happy just to be working.

I will be seeing the movie, but more because I want to see how Thor will be brought to the screen. I wonder how most of the northern Europeans will be taking this news?

 

[Christopher]

How did the Greeks react to Hercules and Xena? It's not like many people actually believe in these deities anymore, so who cares what liberties are taken?

 

[Kegg]

so who cares what liberties are taken?

It can simply come down to a fondness for the narrative. I don't like the idea of some comic book writers cleaning up the Norse mythos and doing their usual slapdash routine, and I didn't like using Greek mythology as a vehicle for Hollywood cheesecake; though of course neither are exactly new.

Though as far as casting goes there has been a suspicious and of course unremarkjed on tendency for Greek gods to be cast as northern European whites; which is never really seen as a big deal.

 

[CaptainCanada]

Though as far as casting goes there has been a suspicious and of course unremarkjed on tendency for Greek gods to be cast as northern European whites; which is never really seen as a big deal.

To most people's minds, Europeans are Europeans, all white to one degree or another (and, of course, there's centuries of art depicting them that way).

It can simply come down to a fondness for the narrative. I don't like the idea of some comic book writers cleaning up the Norse mythos and doing their usual slapdash routine, and I didn't like using Greek mythology as a vehicle for Hollywood cheesecake; though of course neither are exactly new.

Many of these stories have made quite innovative use of world mythology, and these mythologies were hardly watertight in their continuity anyway (Greek mythology puts the DCU to shame in terms of differing versions and retcons).

 

[darkwing_duck1]

"Diversity" casting is the most egregious sort of stunt casting. Any producer or director who would cast on that basis is more concerned with "making a statement" than producing a good movie.

Still interested in the film, but this definitely counts against it.

 

[Kegg]

Though as far as casting goes there has been a suspicious and of course unremarkjed on tendency for Greek gods to be cast as northern European whites; which is never really seen as a big deal.

To most people's minds, Europeans are Europeans, all white to one degree or another (and, of course, there's centuries of art depicting them that way).

Oh, come now. That there are differences between Europeans of many Meditterreanean countries including Greece and northern European countries isn't something all that remarkable; but casting has often favoured northern European actors (Star Trek's Apollo, for example).

Many of these stories have made quite innovative use of world mythology, and these mythologies were hardly watertight in their continuity anyway (Greek mythology puts the DCU to shame in terms of differing versions and retcons).

It's not a matter of continuity and more one of tone, which is why I said I don't like. It's an appropriation and transmogrification of the mythos into a cheeseburger; a pop culture commodity. Inevitable, perhaps, but not something I'm keen on.

 

[CaptainCanada]

Oh, come now. That there are differences between Europeans of many Meditterreanean countries including Greece and northern European countries isn't something all that remarkable; but casting has often favoured northern European actors (Star Trek's Apollo, for example).

Well, of course, particularly in productions by northern Europeans (just like Britons are usually called on to play French characters in English-language versions of The Three Musketeers). It's not nearly the same thing in terms of difference; I don't particularly mind this guy being cast, personally, though I'd have gone a different way.

 

[cardinal biggles]

"Diversity" casting is the most egregious sort of stunt casting. Any producer or director who would cast on that basis is more concerned with "making a statement" than producing a good movie.

Still interested in the film, but this definitely counts against it.

I have a lot more confidence in Kenneth Branagh's abilities as a film director than I do in your opinions of his casting choices.

Thor is going to be awesome.

 

[cylkoth]

Hey, they should've cast me, damn it!

 

[darkwing_duck1]

"Diversity" casting is the most egregious sort of stunt casting. Any producer or director who would cast on that basis is more concerned with "making a statement" than producing a good movie.

Still interested in the film, but this definitely counts against it.

I have a lot more confidence in Kenneth Branagh's abilities as a film director than I do in your opinions of his casting choices.

Thor is going to be awesome.

Then perhaps, oh sage, you might enlighten me as to what this casting choice actually BRINGS to the project other than a few press releases touting a "diverse" cast?

A filmmaker's first priority and duty is to the FILM, not to making political/social statements.

 

[Skywalker]

"Diversity" casting is the most egregious sort of stunt casting. Any producer or director who would cast on that basis is more concerned with "making a statement" than producing a good movie.

Still interested in the film, but this definitely counts against it.

I have a lot more confidence in Kenneth Branagh's abilities as a film director than I do in your opinions of his casting choices.

Thor is going to be awesome.

Then perhaps, oh sage, you might enlighten me as to what this casting choice actually BRINGS to the project other than a few press releases touting a "diverse" cast?

An excellent actor.

 

[darkwing_duck1]

I have a lot more confidence in Kenneth Branagh's abilities as a film director than I do in your opinions of his casting choices.

Thor is going to be awesome.

Then perhaps, oh sage, you might enlighten me as to what this casting choice actually BRINGS to the project other than a few press releases touting a "diverse" cast?

An excellent actor.

There are plenty of skilled actors out there. What does this particular actor bring to the table that demands that HE be given in this role, given the nature of the character (to wit: a Norse god) that argues against the casting. You would not hire a black actor to play Abe Lincoln, or Robert E Lee, regardless of how skilled they were, because those people were not black.

 

[Greg Cox]

There are plenty of skilled actors out there. What does this particular actor bring to the table that demands that HE be given in this role, given the nature of the character (to wit: a Norse god) that argues against the casting. You would not hire a black actor to play Abe Lincoln, or Robert E Lee, regardless of how skilled they were, because those people were not black.

Oh, don't be silly. We're not talking about a serious historical drama here. Hell, we're not even talking about a serious adaptation of classic Norse mythology. We're talking about THE MIGHTY THOR, which stopped being a faithful adaption of the Norse myths about the time Thor fought the "Stone Men from Saturn" in the very first issue of the comic book.

It's a comic book action movie, filmed in 2010. Who cares what race Heimdall is? He's a modern interpretation of an old Stan Lee/Jack Kirby character. And the days when all comic book characters had to be white are, thankfully, long past. Welcome to 2010.

Won't hurt the movie one bit.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

I have a lot more confidence in Kenneth Branagh's abilities as a film director than I do in your opinions of his casting choices.

Thor is going to be awesome.

Then perhaps, oh sage, you might enlighten me as to what this casting choice actually BRINGS to the project other than a few press releases touting a "diverse" cast?

An excellent actor.

Yep. Why isn't that the first thing that occurs to people when they ask that question?

 

[cardinal biggles]

"Diversity" casting is the most egregious sort of stunt casting. Any producer or director who would cast on that basis is more concerned with "making a statement" than producing a good movie.

Still interested in the film, but this definitely counts against it.

I have a lot more confidence in Kenneth Branagh's abilities as a film director than I do in your opinions of his casting choices.

Thor is going to be awesome.

Then perhaps, oh sage, you might enlighten me as to what this casting choice actually BRINGS to the project other than a few press releases touting a "diverse" cast?

A filmmaker's first priority and duty is to the FILM, not to making political/social statements.

You're assuming Branagh is attempting to make a political/social statement, when in fact this is simply him following an established pattern of casting actors he thinks will be a good fit for the role and a good fit for the overall film, regardless of their skin color. (e.g., his casting of Denzel Washington in Much Ado About Nothing, Adrian Lester in Love's Labours Lost, Lester and David Oyelowo in As You Like It, along with the liberties he took in terms of time and place with Hamlet, Love's Labours Lost, and As You Like It).

As Greg pointed out, this is not a straight-up faithful retelling of Norse mythology; it's a movie based on a comic book that has long played fast and loose with that mythology, so I don't see any problem with Branagh being allowed to tweak it as he sees fit. Certainly the other Marvel-based films of the past decade have felt free to discard or rewrite various characters as it served the story. If this ruins Thor for you, that's your problem, not anyone else's.

 

[StarTrek1701]

It's a comic book action movie, filmed in 2010. Who cares what race Heimdall is? He's a modern interpretation of an old Stan Lee/Jack Kirby character. And the days when all comic book characters had to be white are, thankfully, long past. Welcome to 2010.

Won't hurt the movie one bit.

I am pretty sure nobody would be up in arms if Blade, John Stewart, Black Lightning, Storm or Vixen are cast as White People right?

 

[darkwing_duck1]

Oh, don't be silly. We're not talking about a serious historical drama here. Hell, we're not even talking about a serious adaptation of classic Norse mythology. We're talking about THE MIGHTY THOR, which stopped being a faithful adaption of the Norse myths about the time Thor fought the "Stone Men from Saturn" in the very first issue of the comic book.

It's a comic book action movie, filmed in 2010.

And that's an excuse that justifies making any and all changes to whatever character the makers want?

Ok, then Thor (in his god form) can be a 90 year old bald Chineese guy...it's just a "comic book movie", right?

Fans would utterly reject that, and they SHOULD.

Who cares what race Heimdall is? He's a modern interpretation of an old Stan Lee/Jack Kirby character. And the days when all comic book characters had to be white are, thankfully, long past. Welcome to 2010.

Won't hurt the movie one bit.

More "representational" bullcrap. Let's have a latino Superman, and a Batman who becomes BatWOMAN after a trip to Sweden and Will Smith in drag playing Wonder Woman...it's all just a "comic book movie"...right?

It's a comic book action movie, filmed in 2010. Who cares what race Heimdall is? He's a modern interpretation of an old Stan Lee/Jack Kirby character. And the days when all comic book characters had to be white are, thankfully, long past. Welcome to 2010.

Won't hurt the movie one bit.

I am pretty sure nobody would be up in arms if Blade, John Stewart, Black Lightning, Storm or Vixen are cast as White People right?

Of COURSE they would...because it's all about "Ya gotta 'represent'..." and riding on the coattails of popular characters to make a social point...

 

[Skywalker]

Who cares what race Heimdall is? He's a modern interpretation of an old Stan Lee/Jack Kirby character. And the days when all comic book characters had to be white are, thankfully, long past. Welcome to 2010.

Won't hurt the movie one bit.

More "representational" bullcrap. Let's have a latino Superman, and a Batman who becomes BatWOMAN after a trip to Sweden and Will Smith in drag playing Wonder Woman...it's all just a "comic book movie"...right?

Hey, why not? We've already had a Superman who was of partial Asian descent.