It WAS a Borg ship though, just not a Cube.
Not to mention it was the TNG crew, not the ENT crew.
How the Ferengi got into space is a mystery to me
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Not to mention it was the TNG crew, not the ENT crew.
Nobody seems to have pointed out that although not of a scientific or engineering mind, Quark was easily one of the most perceptive people on DS9.
Another point, that in the early seasons of TNG it was stressed that the Ferengi Marauder was nearly on par with a Galaxy-class starship.
A species doesn't just buy that kind of technology.
A species doesn't just buy that kind of technology.
The only time I'd call them "barely sentient monkeys" is The Last Outpost when they were hopping around and whipping whoever was in the vicinity.
Their protrayal in later series did tend to be rather silly and foolish, primarily a by-product of them becoming the go-to race for comedy. Even though DS9 did do some pretty serious storylines with Quark, Rom and especially Nog, the Ferengi Comedy Episode was something of an annual tradition on DS9.
If ever there were a new Trek series, and they used the Ferengi, I'd have them portrayed as scheming businessmen who do whatever it takes to make a profit, even if it means screwing people, even Our Heroes over. That way there you could return them to their villainous roots, which was the original intention when TNG introduced them, but you wouldn't be ignoring the work done with them on DS9.
Greed can = innovation. If you know there are valuable resources on your moon, you find a way to get there
Course, by the same token you can't exactly look at Kirk and understand how Picard and other humans became so "enlightened" 100 years later.
To say that all Ferengi are stupid is the same as judging an entire race on the examples of just a few members. With Trek, we've seen mostly Ferengi civilians, soldiers, and merchants--so this means that there aren't any Ferengi scientists, doctors, and engineers? Such people may simply be rarely encountered outside of Ferengi territory, while Ferengi businessmen and other opportunists may be everywhere.
Heck, we can possibly even say that Ferengi scientists and engineers worked hard to develop warp drive before Humans did because space was considered "the final business opportunity"...
Heck, we can possibly even say that Ferengi scientists and engineers worked hard to develop warp drive before Humans did because space was considered "the final business opportunity"...
ProtoAvatar
Fleet Captain
In DS9 - Little green man - it is established that the ferengi bought their warp technology from aliens.
Most ferengi (even top tear ferengi - ship commanders, etc) were depicted as greedy and easily influencable: they routinely believed the most ridiculos of excuses; they could be convinced to do practically anything with a few words - as long as one promised them profit or sex. And most ferengi were ready to do anything for profit - murder, theft, etc.
There were 2-3 examples of ferengi who behaved as more than monkeys that somehow got their hands on the equivalent of nuclear weaponry, though.
Of course, the ferengi had competition as far as 'stupid' goes - the pakleds. These guys made the ferengi look smart.
PS:
About greed and technological advancement:
Greed, in a few cases, can encourage technical development, but more often than not, it curtails such development.
Why?
Because investing in scientific/technological advancement is a high-risk investment.
No one can tell whether the science project you invested in will pay off; indeed, most of the times, it doesn't.
This is why corporations are not the leading actors in scientific/technological advancement; because their goal is profit.
Most ferengi (even top tear ferengi - ship commanders, etc) were depicted as greedy and easily influencable: they routinely believed the most ridiculos of excuses; they could be convinced to do practically anything with a few words - as long as one promised them profit or sex. And most ferengi were ready to do anything for profit - murder, theft, etc.
There were 2-3 examples of ferengi who behaved as more than monkeys that somehow got their hands on the equivalent of nuclear weaponry, though.
Of course, the ferengi had competition as far as 'stupid' goes - the pakleds. These guys made the ferengi look smart.
PS:
About greed and technological advancement:
Greed, in a few cases, can encourage technical development, but more often than not, it curtails such development.
Why?
Because investing in scientific/technological advancement is a high-risk investment.
No one can tell whether the science project you invested in will pay off; indeed, most of the times, it doesn't.
This is why corporations are not the leading actors in scientific/technological advancement; because their goal is profit.
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So this is where marketing comes in. Apple wouldn't have produced the iPad without some kind of surveys or focus groups.
Since the Ferengi culture, even sense of being, is based on profit, they need some way to ensure a healthy means of securing. I bet the Ferengi are expert marketers because of this.
Since the Ferengi culture, even sense of being, is based on profit, they need some way to ensure a healthy means of securing. I bet the Ferengi are expert marketers because of this.
Science and technology are not synonyms. The difference is very relevant to this discussion.
Science is the application of the scientific method to discover the laws of nature. There is little capitalist incentive for scientific research, because the product of the research — namely, knowledge of the laws of nature — belongs to the whole world once it is discovered. It bestows no special benefit on the discoverer.
Technology is the application of scientific knowledge to design useful things. Developers of technology can protect their designs with patents, which creates a great financial incentive to develop them.
Scientific research should be publicly funded. Development of technology can generally be left to the private sector.
ProtoAvatar
Fleet Captain
I'm aware of this.
The relation between greed and scientific development is the same as the relation between greed and technological advancement (hence my use of terms).
Greed/Profit is, in the vast majority of cases, nefarious for their advancement.
The only scientifical/technology research programs financed by corporations/other players whose pupose is profit (with VERY FEW exceptions) are those that are certain/near-certain to have a positive outcome AKA those that don't really advance science/technology, but merely create an application of existing science/technology.
As an example - indolover mentioned Apple's iPAD.
As the last 50 years more than adequately proved - you will NEVER see profit oriented organizations funding research programs aimed at, for example, a better space-propulsion method or at developing other truly innovative technologies.
Why?
Because such research programs, in most cases, have a negative result - which makes them really BAD investments, profit-wise.
Cochrane: You wanna know what my vision is? Dollar signs! Money! I didn't build this ship to usher in a new era for humanity. I built this ship so that I could retire to some tropical island filled with naked women. That's Zefram Cochrane. That's his vision.
Look at how many nation around the Earth buy their warships, submarines and fighter planes from other nations, either new or used. The Brazilian naval flagship (a aircraft carrier) was purchased from France.
Boeing Military Aircraft developed composite materials for aircraft with the anticipation of sell lots and lots of B2 stealth bomber to the US government, when that large order failed to materialize, Boeing Commercial Aircraft then poured even more money into the technology and the then refined technology resulted in the 787 Dream Liner
Boeing didn't develop this technology for "science," they developed this technology to make money. This story is typical of business R&D. If one project in fifty makes money, as long as the income exceeds the loses, there will be profit.
It would be easy to see the Ferengi engaging in large amounts of R&D. For them it would be just another commercial venture.
ProtoAvatar
Fleet Captain
T'Girl
"If one project in fifty makes money, as long as the income exceeds the loses, there will be profit."
If one project in fifty makes money, in the overwhelmingly large majority of cases, the income will NOT exceed the loses. Quite the contrary.
About Boeing - it made B2 as a government order, yes?
How much money did the government pour into that particular project?
I bet every businessman would love to risk on another's money. In most cases, that is and remains a dream.
Defense industry was - and, to a lesser extent, is, even after the cold war - an exception. It takes risks on the taxpayer's money.
Ferengi didn't pay taxes.
"If one project in fifty makes money, as long as the income exceeds the loses, there will be profit."
If one project in fifty makes money, in the overwhelmingly large majority of cases, the income will NOT exceed the loses. Quite the contrary.
About Boeing - it made B2 as a government order, yes?
How much money did the government pour into that particular project?
I bet every businessman would love to risk on another's money. In most cases, that is and remains a dream.
Defense industry was - and, to a lesser extent, is, even after the cold war - an exception. It takes risks on the taxpayer's money.
Ferengi didn't pay taxes.
Saquist
Commodore
You've got to be kidding me....
It's obvious that the Ferengi go into space for one reason and one reason alone....MONEY
It's the same reason why Earth isn't in space right now and our progressed has slowed 30 years stagnant. If Earth actually found it profitable to find raw materials in space to expand their own wealth space technology would be busting the seams.
It's obvious that the Ferengi go into space for one reason and one reason alone....MONEY
It's the same reason why Earth isn't in space right now and our progressed has slowed 30 years stagnant. If Earth actually found it profitable to find raw materials in space to expand their own wealth space technology would be busting the seams.
ProtoAvatar
Fleet Captain
The major problem is - it is NOT profitable to mine space for raw materials.
And it is not profitable to invest in high risk science/tech project in developing space technology.
All these are proven by recent history.
And it is not profitable to invest in high risk science/tech project in developing space technology.
All these are proven by recent history.
"Space....The final business opportunity. These are profitable voyages of the tradeship, mundar. It's continuing mission, to exploit strange new worlds, to steal from new life forms and new civilisations. To make a profit bigger than no ferengi before..."
^^ Thank you. I was just hoping someone would redo the opening line.
Pratt & Whitney (Rocketdyne) researched, developed, designed and built the space shuttle main engines, fourteen in all, as a commercial product. Thiokol Corporation researched, developed, designed and built the large boosters used solely for the space shuttle, again as a commercial product. Rockwell International built the space shuttle itself on a cost plus contract, guaranteeing profit.
Boeing researched, developed and built the orbital sea launch system with the company as the prime contractor, and made a nice profit at it too. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_Launch
Scaled Composites researched, developed and is building the first two commercial passager spacecraft for Virgin Atlantic, and will be making a profit.
The development project? That's a easy question, none. Boeing anticipated recouping their development costs by selling 132 bombers to the Air Force, unfortunately the Soviet empire collapsed in the mean time. The Air Force only bought a relatively few bombers, Boeing final did recoup development costs through commercial sells instead. Boeing has sold over 850 of it's new type of aircraft. Very light weight.
And my 2 cents: The Ferengi are based on 20th century humans according to Word of God.
