How old is Pike/Kirk

[RobertScorpio]

In the Menagerie, before Mendez takes Kirk/Spock/McCoy in the room to meet Pike, Mendez explains what happened to him. He states that Pike is 'nearly' the same age as kirk.

Well, if Kirk is in his early 30s then does that mean Pike was commanding the Enterprise at the age of 22 or even younger?

Anyway, I did attend the showing of the Menagerie when they showed it at the theatre a couple months back. Because the signal was being transmitted via sattelite, the images seemed a little dark. But it was great.

I was surprised at the size of the crowd. I'd say it was 70% sold out. And there were several younger people there as well. No doubt dragged there by their dad or, yikes, grand dads!!!

Great episode..and I still maintain it is the best TWO PART or TWO HOUR episode in all of TREK(s) creations.

 

[Alpha Romeo]

RobertScorpio said:
In the Menagerie, before Mendez takes Kirk/Spock/McCoy in the room to meet Pike, Mendez explains what happened to him. He states that Pike is 'nearly' the same age as kirk.

Well, if Kirk is in his early 30s then does that mean Pike was commanding the Enterprise at the age of 22 or even younger?

Anyway, I did attend the showing of the Menagerie when they showed it at the theatre a couple months back. Because the signal was being transmitted via sattelite, the images seemed a little dark. But it was great.

I was surprised at the size of the crowd. I'd say it was 70% sold out. And there were several younger people there as well. No doubt dragged there by their dad or, yikes, grand dads!!!

Great episode..and I still maintain it is the best TWO PART or TWO HOUR episode in all of TREK(s) creations.

I kinda thought it was a snooze when they did the play backs of the Cage.

 

[A beaker full of death]

RobertScorpio said:
In the Menagerie, before Mendez takes Kirk/Spock/McCoy in the room to meet Pike, Mendez explains what happened to him. He states that Pike is 'nearly' the same age as kirk.

Yeah, the line really doesn't work when you consider when the Cage takes place.

 

[smalltalk66]

Another thought: The actor they got to play Pike in the new Trek film seems to be older than Jeffrey Hunter in the Cage. Greenwood's 51, so I guess Pike's age is now irrelevant. (Don't ya hate it when they do that?)

 

[Vance]

I think it's a misread line, supposed to mean that Pike had the Enterprise when he was Kirk's age, not that the two men are still the same age.

After all, Kirk's relative youth in commanding a starship is supposed to be relatively unusual in Star Fleet.

 

[C.E. Evans]

Pike may have been just a few years older than Kirk when he first took command of the Enterprise. Both men may have been the golden boys of their respective times: young, ambitious overacheivers that moved very rapidly up the chain of command.

 

[Timo]

Yeah, the line really doesn't work when you consider when the Cage takes place.

And the writer would have known that perfectly well. Which is why I think the line means exactly what Vance says: Kirk and Pike got their promotions at the same age.

That's what Mendez is talking about - Pike's past, not his present. In the same sentence, he's saying Pike was strong and vigorous, which quite certainly is not the current state of affairs...

I don't think the line was "misread" in any way, though. Mendez simply speaks like that, in clipped sentences. The line is not difficult to understand in the context, although admittedly it is easy to misunderstand.

In theory, we might argue that Mendez is such an old codger himself that he doesn't see any difference between Kirk at 33 and Pike at 44. But that's not what the writer meant, obviously.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Timo said:
In theory, we might argue that Mendez is such an old codger himself that he doesn't see any difference between Kirk at 33 and Pike at 44. But that's not what the writer meant, obviously.

Ironic, since Malachi Throne (Mendez) was himself in his late thirties when "The Menagerie" was made! (He was born in 1928)

 

[A beaker full of death]

Timo said:

And the writer would have known that perfectly well. Which is why I think the line means exactly what Vance says: Kirk and Pike got their promotions at the same age.

That's what Mendez is talking about - Pike's past, not his present. In the same sentence, he's saying Pike was strong and vigorous, which quite certainly is not the current state of affairs...

But his past as of when? Surely Pike was still vigorous and vital as a Fleet Captain, and up until the time of the accident. I can't suppose he'd just been riding a desk for 15 years. It would be one thing if he'd just dropped off the face of the cosmos when he left the Enterprise, but surely he'd been active.
Besides, he commanded the Enterprise long after the events of the Cage - at least ten years longer, since Kirk took over from him.

 

[felixofgolden]

This might be part of the fan-canon, but I was always under the impression that Kirk was the youngest to make captain, at age 29 (therefore early 30's in TOS). This info may have come from the books in the 70's.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I don't recall any onscreen references to Kirk being the youngest captain in Starfleet.

As for Pike, I'm sure he was in the prime of physical health even at the time of his accident. Life expectancy in Trek's future is over 150 years, anyway. A man who is a hundred years old (much older than Pike was at the time) would be considered to be in peak condition.

 

[Wingsley]

felixofgolden said:
This might be part of the fan-canon, but I was always under the impression that Kirk was the youngest to make captain, at age 29 (therefore early 30's in TOS). This info may have come from the books in the 70's.

I think this reference may have come from Vonda McIntyre's "Enterprise - The First Adventure", which was printed in the mid-1980's.

The only time we ever really hear anyone explicitly refer to Kirk's age in TOS was in "The Deadly Years", when an aging Kirk excitedly insists he's 34. I always had a hard time accepting Kirk was that young. Given his exceptional officers never rise in rank that fast, it would at least be easy to swallow if Kirk were in his late 30s.

 

[Zeppster]

Pike had to be in his 50s or late 40s by Menagerie. Kirk's age was set in Deadly years and in ST 2 when they said he was 50 I think.

 

[Holytomato]

Mmm...Maybe we will see Pike get M-rayed?

mmm...New Thread idea! :thumbsup:

 

[Ronald Held]

Maybe, but I do not think it is directly needed by the plot, from waht little I knwo of it.

 

[Timo]

Kirk's age was set in Deadly years and in ST 2 when they said he was 50 I think.

To be accurate, Kirk's age has never really been set.

Sure, he claims (in an uncertain, halting manner) that he is 34 years old in "Deadly Years". But can we believe him? He's utterly senile at that point. And nobody would have the heart to correct him if he mistakenly said "34" when he should have been saying "37" or "42" or something. Indeed, his chronological age there does not matter when the relevant point is that his physical condition matches that of somebody "between 60 and 72, aging rapidly", and his mental one seems severely affected by this.

And there's nothing in ST2 to prove that Kirk's birthday there was his fiftieth. Most people I know celebrate their every birthday, not just the big round numbers - at least as far as Kirk's hermitlike "celebrating" goes.

There's an obscure screen graphic in ENT "IaMD" that might or might not establish a birthdate. Then again, there's a tombstone in TOS "Where No Man" that establishes a stardate that makes equal (non)sense...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[EliyahuQeoni]

There is absolutely nothing in the Deadly Years to suggest that Kirk is mistaken about his age. And people didn't seem to have a problem correcting him about not remembering what planet they were orbiting. Stocker likely would have jumped on the fact that he didn't even know his own age.

 

[Timo]

Actually, folks stopped trying to correct Kirk's "Gamma Hydra II" error pretty soon, resorting to cringes instead. And there'd be no reason for Stocker to pounce, as Kirk was digging a deeper and deeper hole for himself by simply keeping his lips moving...

I don't see any major reason not to believe in 2233 as Kirk's birthday and 2267-68 as the date of "Deadly Years". But I wouldn't worry a bit if the upcoming movie decided on a different year of birth. And I certainly shouldn't use the combination of the assumed birthdate and the assumed 50-yr age as a means for dating ST2:TWoK...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Ronald Held]

I do not see why Kirk did not know how old he was. Robert Johnson did, plus no one corrected himas in other errors.

 

[A beaker full of death]

Zeppster said:
in ST 2 when they said he was 50 I think.

To be clear, they never said WHICH birthday it was in STII.