How much will Spock Prime tell Starfleet?

[Voyagerian]

I think that a lot of interesting and good points have been made here, it's an intriguing question...my first gut reaction was, reading it, to say i'd guess he wouldn't say much, if anything. Who knows for sure? I am sure there'll be those who'll disagree, but it seems that maybe one thing Prime Spock woulkd be inclined to want to do, is to make sure that the Romulan government is at some point made aware of what fate might well befall the Homeworld here, in this new reality he's found himself in-which came about because of actions he took...After all, the destruction of Romulus in the Prime Universe caused Vulcan to be lost here...and Spock will NEVER forget that fact, though move on he must, and will. To me that's a powerful motivating factor to want to see a far better outcome for both the Empire, and those around it.Would this happen soon...of course not. Merely getting the Empire to believe any representative of the Federation would be a major achievement, given the animus since before the Romulan War...but it's possible.In time, and with much work on behalf of someone like Spock, who, at his age, yes, does not have the time he spent in years past to establish a rappor with Romulans...but Young Spock does.And, once Quinto's version has moved forward from his grief and anger-generated by ONE Romulan, not the entire race, dangerous though they may yet be, and we know in time he will, armed also with the knowledge of what might well occur again, he could carry the torch, and become, still, POTENTIALLY, the Ambassador to his people's cousins that his other, future self was, and effect changes in their relationship, i.e., the UFP...and IF the physics follow here, save billions on Romulus, and who knows, create a future unseen yet, even than in the PU. That is part of the point of this new universe, that things are different, and that events may play out on another level. Could it be in some future era a different chaos than the Hobus Disaster?Yes. But it doesn't necessarily have to be either.

 

[Nerys Myk]

He's string'em along for the maximum amount of profit. (His Starfleet pension is worthless in this universe)

 

[Plecostomus]

I like the idea of the Enterprise out there taking care of Business as directed by Starfleet on Spock's advice... only to cause an even worse situation.

"Kahn got ahold of the Doomsday Machine and vaporized V'Ger with it?! Wait, what?!"

 

[M'Sharak]

The entire debate for this thread should be very interesting.

It's entirely possible.

A look at what's been said the last ten (or so) times the question came up may also be of interest to some:

Spock's Conscience/Should Spock warn _____ about ______?

 

[the Dagman]

I could see Spock Prime telling the nuFederation about certain events which have already been set in motion. Certain events, like his death and resurrection and destruction of the original Enterprise, led to his crew being off-planet when the whale probe knifed through Federation space and avoiding the initial effects of the probe long enough to figure out why it was there and how to fix things. Other things were more dependent upon the actual interaction of the crew, so it would be harder to predict the outcome in the altered time line.

But I could see him put together a list of events to alter, based off one initial alteration and addressing the events that would have followed in the original time line, to try to bring events to a more satisfactory closure. Such as:

1. Upon encountering a ship call Botany Bay: fire photon torpedoes and destroy that ship. It is loaded with... hazardous biological material shot into space back in the late 20th century. And it would be for the best to just blow it up and save you all the nothing but trouble it generated for us in the original time line.

2. Tell Kirk's baby son David Marcus "No proto-matter!" over and over. He will understand when the time is right.

3. Outfit a large cargo ship with a huge aquarium and a spare set of dilithium crystals stored safely onboard. Take it back in time via sun-slingshot and pick up a male and a female humpback whale. Bring them back to the present.

A list like this would neatly stitch over Star Treks II - IV, save this Spock from death (as there is no more Vulcan to return him to to be resurrected), and save this Enterprise from being destroyed. Not to mention that if there was no Genesis, then David Marcus could not be killed by Klingons while on that planet then, could he?

And that is even assuming that Kirk still had his relationship with Carol Marcus in this time line. The change in the way he joined Starfleet could have altered the women he picked up on. So if he missed out with Carol, then David will most assuredly not be born, making Spock Prime's intervention even more needed. Because if all that had not happened, Earth would have been destroyed when the probe came looking for it's whale buddies.

 

[24thcenstfan]

Even though he is on another timeline, I think he will still be mostly closed lipped about the future. Deciding to air on the side of caution and not change the timeline anymore than he already has.

 

[Cmndr J Crichton]

He'll simply exaggerate.

 

[EJA]

This is one of the reasons I'm starting to think Spock Prime should be killed off early on in the next movie before he reveals too much. For some reason I wouldn't be all that bothered if he told them stuff about Khan or the Gorn, but no more after that, the future should be unknown.

 

[thumbtack]

How could the old universe be used to predict events in the new universe? That doesn't make any sense to me. Or are we assuming this is the same universe but a different timeline? Actually, that doesn't make any sense either.

 

[M'Sharak]

How could the old universe be used to predict events in the new universe? That doesn't make any sense to me. Or are we assuming this is the same universe but a different timeline? Actually, that doesn't make any sense either.

The idea is that, up until the Narada emerged from the wormhole and the Kelvin was destroyed, it was one timeline, the Prime timeline, which we already "know" continues on until at least the year 2387. Past that point, a second, alternate, timeline branches off from the Prime, caused by the introduction of elements which had not been part of the original timeline, and it is in that alternate "universe" that the main events of this movie take place. At the point where the timelines begin to diverge, they theoretically contain all of the same things, including the Botany Bay and its cargo, the Doomsday planet-killer, V'Ger, "Operation -- Annihilate!" parasites, the whale probe, etc., etc.

Does this mean that our alt-universe Enterprise crew will have all of the same contacts and the same adventures in exactly the same order that we've already seen in the Prime timeline? Not necessarily, because the more the timelines diverge, the more they evolve in their own separate directions, and the more events in the alt-timeline are likely to play out differently from those in the Prime. All of those threats may still be out there. That Spock knows they're out there may be a factor, or it may not turn out to be of any consequence at all.

 

[the Dagman]

How could the old universe be used to predict events in the new universe? That doesn't make any sense to me. Or are we assuming this is the same universe but a different timeline? Actually, that doesn't make any sense either.

The idea is that, up until the Narada emerged from the wormhole and the Kelvin was destroyed, it was one timeline, the Prime timeline, which we already "know" continues on until at least the year 2387. Past that point, a second, alternate, timeline branches off from the Prime, caused by the introduction of elements which had not been part of the original timeline, and it is in that alternate "universe" that the main events of this movie take place. At the point where the timelines begin to diverge, they theoretically contain all of the same things, including the Botany Bay and its cargo, the Doomsday planet-killer, V'Ger, "Operation -- Annihilate!" parasites, the whale probe, etc., etc.

Does this mean that our alt-universe Enterprise crew will have all of the same contacts and the same adventures in exactly the same order that we've already seen in the Prime timeline? Not necessarily, because the more the timelines diverge, the more they evolve in their own separate directions, and the more events in the alt-timeline are likely to play out differently from those in the Prime. All of those threats may still be out there. That Spock knows they're out there may be a factor, or it may not turn out to be of any consequence at all.

Yes, Spock Prime knows what is out there that has already been set in motion. But he also knows that it is those events that help forge the friendship between Kirk and Spock, and most are quite needed. And he has faith in his younger self and Kirk to get it done. So things like the Doomsday Machine and V'Ger are events I think Spock Prime would just allow to play out as this new time line needed them to play out.

The only thing that I think he may speak out on are events which relied upon the existence of Vulcan to proceed. Such as in the progression of events that led to his resurrection in the original time line, and that having played a part in the saving of Earth from the whale probe. So that is an event that needs to be headed off by the actions I detailed in my prior post. Plus, it not only saves his younger self from death without the possibility of rebirth in this time line, but it gives his friend Kirk his son back as well. A symbolic balance, given that Kirk lost his father at birth in this new time line.

Then again, there are now alterations which make TOS episodes completely unnecessary. Like "Amok Time". Being that Vulcan is dead, taking T'Pring with it most likely, Spock has no mate or planet to return to and would likely turn to Uhura in their place in their privacy aboard the Enterprise. So that series of events will likely keep Spock Prime quiet to give his younger self his privacy in the matter.

 

[Jeri]

The entire debate for this thread should be very interesting.

It's entirely possible.

A look at what's been said the last ten (or so) times the question came up may also be of interest to some:

Spock's Conscience/Should Spock warn _____ about ______?

Thanks; a little perspective doesn't go amiss.

 

[The Castellan]

I can imagine that he may report all that he knows, but Starfleet will probably classify a lot of it. May even lead to the earlier formation of the Temporal Authority, or whatever that department is called.

And watch it bite them in the ass, like with Starfleet knowing about the Borg and NOT telling anyone. Some people might appreciate coverups, needs to know basis crap, and secracy, but it always ends up biting one in the ass.

I'd love to see Spock say to Starfleet or Section 31, "How is all the stuff with the BORG coming along?"

 

[Nerys Myk]

Section 31 will have him locked in the Guantanemo Asteriod using advanced interogation techniques until he spills all.

ST12: Spock and Kirk Escape from Guantanemo

 

[Dusty Ayres]

'Khan is here - don't put him in detention on Ceti Alpha V - check.'

Even better, erase Khan's mind and personality, and give him and all of the other Augments new ones (similar to what's done for serious crimes on Babylon 5)-maybe give him Doc Savage's personality (Doc being an Augment that wanted to do good and help man, not take it over and rule it) if such machines exist in the New Continuity (that's what I think the new movie is, kinda like what DC Comics is now after Infinite Crisis and Final Crisis!) That will give Khan something to truly shoot for, instead of acting like the ass**** he is (and he was an ass**** before Wrath Of Khan, too.)

Just my 0.02.

 

[The Castellan]

'Khan is here - don't put him in detention on Ceti Alpha V - check.'

Even better, erase Khan's mind and personality, and give him and all of the other Augments new ones (similar to what's done for serious crimes on Babylon 5)-maybe give him Doc Savage's personality (Doc being an Augment that wanted to do good and help man, not take it over and rule it) if such machines exist in the New Continuity (that's what I think the new movie is, kinda like what DC Comics is now after Infinite Crisis and Final Crisis!) That will give Khan something to truly shoot for, instead of acting like the ass**** he is (and he was an ass**** before Wrath Of Khan, too.)

Just my 0.02.

Wiping out someone's mind and replacing it with another would make the one doing it no better than the one being wiped.

 

[Dusty Ayres]

'Khan is here - don't put him in detention on Ceti Alpha V - check.'

Even better, erase Khan's mind and personality, and give him and all of the other Augments new ones (similar to what's done for serious crimes on Babylon 5)-maybe give him Doc Savage's personality (Doc being an Augment that wanted to do good and help man, not take it over and rule it) if such machines exist in the New Continuity (that's what I think the new movie is, kinda like what DC Comics is now after Infinite Crisis and Final Crisis!) That will give Khan something to truly shoot for, instead of acting like the ass**** he is (and he was an ass**** before Wrath Of Khan, too.)

Just my 0.02.

Wiping out someone's mind and replacing it with another would make the one doing it no better than the one being wiped.

In Khan's case, it would be an improvement.

 

[EJA]

From what I've seen, I don't think Nimoy either expects or wants to be in any sequels.

Really? I've not heard that; where did you get hold of that information?

 

[Jeri]

He said it in an interview. I heard it recently and then heard it again a few days later; gawd, there are so many. I don't know if I can find it.

 

[the Dagman]

While I have heard the exact opposite. Nimoy enjoyed coming back to play Spock again after so many years. And he loved working with Abrams so much, he signed onto his show Fringe as well. And Abrams has left the door open for Nimoy to return in the next movie as he and his people have begun to work on the next script.