How much "Family planning" was the Doctor involved in?

[Guy Gardener]

Sisko and Cassidy said that they both forgot their monthly shots in DS9 when they got knocked up, so birth control exists in the 24th century, and from the complicated birth of Naomi Wildman we saw who easy they implemented a "fetal transport" so abortion as we understand it was mechanically possible.

2 children. (Lizard babies don't count.)

One was conceived in the Alpha Quadrant and pushe... sorry, transported out, died, and then replaced by a quantum duplicate in the delta Quadrant. The other conceived in the Delta Quadrant but pushed out in the Alpha Quadrant (Well, Seska sure, but she went native and didn't trust the doctor to look into her womans issues until she had safely had her child.).

From alpha to omega, there was no complete pregnancy which began and finished while Voyager was lost in the Delta Quadrant. So apart from some liberal use of the contraception "shot" or some space radiation sterilized %99 of the crew or everyones plumbing was still half jammed from when the Caretaker tried to breed with all of them while they were unconscious...

Because of the danger, because of the uncertainty, because of the crappy chances of getting home with out being eaten by space boogers or harvested by the vidians... How many abortions do you think the Doctor preformed during his tenure in the Delte Quadrant?

 

[od0_ital]

Guy Gardener said:
... How many abortions do you think the Doctor preformed during his tenure in the Delte Quadrant?

That's assumin' that "safe sex" wasn't practiced among the crew, and abortion was the only option.

As ya pointed out, the 24th century does have birth control. And rather than just assume the Doctor was runnin' 'round the ship, emitter in one hand & metal clothes hanger in the other, I'm guessin' that because of the regular threats the crew faced, those that did have sex did so with whatever contraceptives were available.

Plus, I'm thinkin' the whole "do no harm" rule would keep the Doctor from performin' abortions without a medical danger to the mother.

 

[Guy Gardener]

O. I haven't accidentally waded ass backwards back into that old Tuvix chestnut again have I?

Accidents happen, but as I just mentioned in the other thread I started today, the crew spent a month under Hirogen control thinking they were operating in MANY different era's acting out wargames. For the authenticity of those scenario's sex would have happened, and the birth control used in those situations/simulations/stimulations, if any, would have been "time specific" to the era accounted as their environment, including the Second World War France or the Barbaric madness of the Klingon middle ages.

B'Elanna dodged a bullet that she was boffing a hologram, but she probably still boffed him, y'know, for the cause. But that would mean that a lot of the crewmen would have been paired romantically as if by lottery for the authenticity of the story that familiar bonds could spice up the hunt... Heck some of the crewmen might even have had their orientation ignored when the Hirogen reinacted the joy division.

A month of this and not a single unwanted accident?

Congratulations on the promotions Odo.

 

[od0_ital]

^

Sorry, I must have been confused by your references to the first birth & the last birth aboard the ship over the course of the seven seasons and didn't realize ya just meant the time frame of one specific two-part episode.

Anyway...

...with that narrow focus in mind, I'd say that the Doctor's program wasn't needed except to treat the wounded. There was a Hirogen or two in sickbay as well durin' the holographic wargames, and it would be in keepin' with their culture if they "harvested" from anyone who just happened to get pregnant durin' the simulations.

But, as ya pointed out, the only pregnancy shown was Torres's, and that was because her character was carryin' the child of a holographic character within the scenario. Scenario ends, so did the pregnancy.

Of course, I'd think, based on the way the Doctor & Harry referenced the different simulations and how the Hirogen were lookin' for the next big thing among the program library, they didn't give the crew, even under the influence of the programs, much time to have sex. Also, considerin' how the Beta Hirogen was uncomfortable about lettin' the Nazi simulation play out, rather than hunt everyone down, its possible that was the first time they tried to keep a program runnin', just 'cause there were so many game pieces on the board, so to speak.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Re: How much "Family planning" was the Doctor involved in? *DELETED*

Post deleted by Guy Gardener

 

[Guy Gardener]

Oh on, the whole seven years are in question in my mind, but that Killing Game month was just a particularly dangerous hot spot which came to point as to when a great many people would have had no control over their carefulness, and consider also if Neelix had all the manners of Ghangis Khan over in his holodeck, how the women there would have been treated if it was anything like 10th century Earth?

Meanwhile I find it odd that the baddies from scientific method didn't inseminate any of the crew during the month or so they were utterly fracking the crewmen of Voyager with every experimental medical process they could think of?

Meanwhile in the beginning, what if the Caretaker had gotten B'Elanna and Harry up the Duff? Banjoman still had a life expectancy of 15 minutes... That's a good enough reason to ask for an abortion as any other.

Y'see last night I saw the episode of deadwood all about pregnancy and abortion, with Doctor "Lon Suder" being both an ass and an Angel while dispensing advice on the subject acting out twice as crotchety as House. Then a running parallel of kidney stones being highlighted as being as difficult to pass as a baby (Well, using 19th century technology.) was a hell of a lot more intense than when Joey had to go through the same issue as Phoebe dropped her triplets.

 

[exodus]

Well being that Starfleets underlying moto is "All life is precious", would abortions still be allowed amoung Starfleet Officers?

 

[Guy Gardener]

Vulcan's are allowed to commit suicide. Phasers have kill settings and I haven't heard them once say that they have rescinded general order 24. Although they must have had the technology to create proxy wombs even before the events in VOY One that the "adoption" process can begin almost as immediately as a parent doesn't want to be a parent with no financial burden to anyone at all or talk of murder.

Worf was adopted. It was a very insular process, but that does suggest the mechanics exist, and the adoption mechanisms would have had to have been in place just to cover the needs of Orphans, who need to have their names changed and require legal if not official declarations of the love that should be self evident as they are welsomed into new families before or after they have the capacity to remember such things. Yar was young enough to need a parent when she escaped her failed colony, but did she get one or did she really get a drill instructor from inducting straight into Starfleet like they she claimed rather than asking for a new mommy, because lets face it she was only 15.

Though if there are huge Federation orphanages overrun with the unwanted children of UFP citizens too focussed on their lives to bother with raising the next generation... Do you remember TNG When the Bow Breaks? Picard could have directed those sterile aliens with the super advanced technology who were harvesting children from the Enterprise to raise as their own, which would have given the UFP quite a leg up as they reverse engineered most of that ultra fantastic planet, and then surely Betazed would never have fallen to the Dominion it they had planetary sized cloak/shields?

What about TNG The Child? Did Pulaski even talk about abortion in the slightest? That was more of a rape infestation than a pregnancy anyway. L Ron Hubbard must have been laughing his ass off about that silent child birth there... Was he dead yet in '88?

Hawk was almost a married homosexual before some footage was cut. Okay, not married, that's from that novel, but if that's conceivable for gay poeple to be allowed to be married in the future then the some zealous faction lost the right to persecute minorities a few hundred years earlier for religious reasons probably as society blew the hell up. So do the gays adopt or do they make one of those duo-dna clones like Tucker and T'Pol had in Enterprise? Notice how the Bajoran War Orphans were ignored even with a strong Federation presence in that region of space? I do believe that medically a line should be drawn between "malignant cancerous growth" and "child", but until that line is crossed, it's the mothers choice what to to do with her own body. Although as I said earlier, is there any point after conception that with all this futuristic super technology that some methodology doesn't exist to allows even a 5 minute old fetus to survive without the ORIGINAL mothers life support mechanisms if you recall Major Kira carrying Yoshi O'Brien to term after KieKo had a terrible accident... What about holographic surrogates?

Of course then you get to talk about Riker and Pulaski shooting their half-made clones and announcing poncey edicts like "There's only room enough in this galaxy for one William T. Riker." That was certainly abortion as an unclouded metaphor tucked under the radar during an age too immature too handle a discussion on the matter. So beyond the matter of this growth that isn't quite alive yet wanting to exist damn it(How can something not alive want to exist? Shut up!) there is a matter of selfishness and restraint that a person might not want to be "mother/father" to a nation and actively despise the thought of their DNA out there beyond their control, not that the Voyager Crew didn't willingly hand over what made them unique to the Quicksilver lifeforms, just like Picard spoke unilaterally for one thousand UFP citizens that it was inconceivable they would want their DNA mass produced into a civilization, again in TNG Up the Long Ladder.

My opinions change hourly.

 

[od0_ital]

exodus said:
Well being that Starfleets underlying moto is "All life is precious", would abortions still be allowed amoung Starfleet Officers?

Watch TNG 'The Child', when Deanna was became pregnant, abortion was put out there as an option durin' the staff meetin'.

So, yes, it would be allowed among Starfleet officers.

But, again, I doubt the Doctor's program would allow him to perform one without a medical danger to the mother.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Another thought came to me. Stasis. just take a fetus out. put in stasis, and then put it back in 5 or ten years down the track when everyone is prepared to be responsible. There could have been columns and phalanx's of test tube's and bucks holding babies at different stages of development waiting for a good time to be brought to term.

 

[WalkinMan]

As far as we know only two babies were born during VOY's journey, Naomi Wildman and Tom/B'lanna's daughter, IIRC. The DQ was not place to raise a child, considering the constant danger the ship was in.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Don't forget Lynnis and Andrew.

Bound into the question WalkinMan is why was there only 2 pregnancies on Voyager, despite there being 150 people being sociable for seven years?

 

[exodus]

Odoriferous Pall said:

exodus said:
Well being that Starfleets underlying moto is "All life is precious", would abortions still be allowed amoung Starfleet Officers?

Watch TNG 'The Child', when Deanna was became pregnant, abortion was put out there as an option durin' the staff meetin'.

So, yes, it would be allowed among Starfleet officers.

But, again, I doubt the Doctor's program would allow him to perform one without a medical danger to the mother.

I hate Troi eps., so that's probably why I didn't remember.

Thanks for the info just the same. :thumbsup: