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How many stars are shown in Star Trek?

marsh8472

Fleet Captain
Fleet Captain
This was a project I was working on last spring. I basically concluded that it can't be done and here's the proof why. But maybe someone can prove me wrong and try to figure it out.

I would count the stars shown on most view screens where the star is considered charted like here in the astrometrics lab.

stars1.jpg


but if the screen is a simulation of some kind where we don't know if the stars actually exist or were just made up in the simulation, a discussion could be made about whether those should count as stars or not. Like in Enterprise episode "strategem"

stars2.jpg


In scenes where stars are shown outside of the window it's possible that they will reuse the same stars for different scenes.

stars3.jpg


First I tried counting them by hand which was pretty tedious... This is from the first moments of episode "The Cage"

starcountattempt.jpg


Then I wrote an application that would try to count the stars for me.

startesthere_40_40_40.jpg


I ran into the problem of trying to define what should be considered a star. How small is too small and how dark is too dark.

stars_zoomedin.jpg


These were the numbers I was getting. Where RGB(255, 255, 255) requires that a star have some perfectly white pixels and RGB(0,0,0) is completely black
RGB(40, 40, 40) = 504 stars
RGB(30, 30, 30) = 595 stars
RGB(20, 20, 20) = 710 stars
RGB(12, 12, 12) = 812 stars
RGB(10, 10, 10) = 850 stars
RGB(5, 5, 5) = 940 stars
RGB(3, 3, 3) = 1003 stars
RGB(1, 1, 1) = 1970 stars

startesthere_30_30_30.jpg



startesthere_20_20_20.jpg


startesthere_10_10_10.jpg


startesthere_5_5_5.jpg


startesthere_1_1_1.jpg


I had this one show the individual star counts

startesthere_12_12_12_countstoo.jpg


People's vision varies, what might be visible to some people would not be visible to others. This application was able to detect stars not visible to the human eye as well. If I tried to draw a line about what's considered a "clearly visible star" or "somewhat visible star" I still ran into the same problem. No matter where I draw the line, there's a star just under that line and just above that line that visibly look the same.

Here's an example of the list of stars ordered from brightest and largest to smallest and darkest

Star:680 Size:705 Width:41 Height:41 Brightness:71.6
Star:4 Size:237 Width:14 Height:22 Brightness:69.4
Star:598 Size:205 Width:14 Height:19 Brightness:93.5
Star:652 Size:124 Width:14 Height:12 Brightness:58.1
Star:107 Size:118 Width:13 Height:13 Brightness:51.5
Star:2 Size:110 Width:12 Height:12 Brightness:47.1
Star:193 Size:106 Width:12 Height:12 Brightness:57.5
Star:26 Size:102 Width:11 Height:13 Brightness:53.7
Star:569 Size:100 Width:9 Height:15 Brightness:59.9
Star:705 Size:97 Width:11 Height:11 Brightness:47.5
Star:42 Size:97 Width:11 Height:11 Brightness:41.9
Star:283 Size:97 Width:11 Height:12 Brightness:35.7
Star:44 Size:96 Width:9 Height:15 Brightness:59.6
Star:38 Size:94 Width:11 Height:11 Brightness:60.8
Star:122 Size:86 Width:9 Height:13 Brightness:39.3
Star:645 Size:85 Width:11 Height:9 Brightness:60.4
Star:479 Size:83 Width:8 Height:13 Brightness:55.2
Star:53 Size:79 Width:9 Height:12 Brightness:84.1
Star:539 Size:75 Width:8 Height:13 Brightness:100.4
Star:596 Size:73 Width:10 Height:10 Brightness:69.8
Star:52 Size:73 Width:9 Height:10 Brightness:63.9
Star:576 Size:73 Width:9 Height:12 Brightness:61.4
Star:91 Size:71 Width:8 Height:12 Brightness:88.8
Star:64 Size:68 Width:9 Height:10 Brightness:57.8
(skipping hundreds of stars to stay without posting size limit)
Star:245 Size:1 Width:1 Height:1 Brightness:15.3
Star:549 Size:1 Width:1 Height:1 Brightness:15.3
Star:250 Size:1 Width:1 Height:1 Brightness:15
Star:255 Size:1 Width:1 Height:1 Brightness:15
Star:293 Size:1 Width:1 Height:1 Brightness:15
Star:691 Size:1 Width:1 Height:1 Brightness:15
Star:707 Size:1 Width:1 Height:1 Brightness:15
Star:146 Size:1 Width:1 Height:1 Brightness:14.7
Star:257 Size:1 Width:1 Height:1 Brightness:14.7
Star:380 Size:1 Width:1 Height:1 Brightness:14.3
Star:168 Size:1 Width:1 Height:1 Brightness:14
Star:294 Size:1 Width:1 Height:1 Brightness:14
Star:683 Size:1 Width:1 Height:1 Brightness:13.7
Star:684 Size:1 Width:1 Height:1 Brightness:13.7
Star:131 Size:1 Width:1 Height:1 Brightness:13.3
Star:349 Size:1 Width:1 Height:1 Brightness:13.3
Star:165 Size:1 Width:1 Height:1 Brightness:13
Star:235 Size:1 Width:1 Height:1 Brightness:13
Star:238 Size:1 Width:1 Height:1 Brightness:13
Star:627 Size:1 Width:1 Height:1 Brightness:13
Star:158 Size:1 Width:1 Height:1 Brightness:12.7
Star:675 Size:1 Width:1 Height:1 Brightness:12.7
Star:124 Size:1 Width:1 Height:1 Brightness:12.3
Star:139 Size:1 Width:1 Height:1 Brightness:12.3
Star:145 Size:1 Width:1 Height:1 Brightness:12.3
Star:761 Size:1 Width:1 Height:1 Brightness:12.3
Star:32 Size:1 Width:1 Height:1 Brightness:12
Star:269 Size:1 Width:1 Height:1 Brightness:12
Star:40 Size:1 Width:1 Height:1 Brightness:11.7
Star:130 Size:1 Width:1 Height:1 Brightness:11.7
Star:276 Size:1 Width:1 Height:1 Brightness:11.7
Star:542 Size:1 Width:1 Height:1 Brightness:11.7
Star:436 Size:1 Width:1 Height:1 Brightness:11.3
Star:746 Size:1 Width:1 Height:1 Brightness:10.7

It's like asking how many bald men are there are on earth. The problem cannot be solved without a precise definition of "hair", "man", and "bald" but these words by their nature are not precisely defined.

I think this problem is formally defined as the problem of counting something with an indeterminate identity http://rgheck.frege.org/pdf/unpublished/IndeterminateIdentity.pdf
 
People's vision varies, what might be visible to some people would not be visible to others. This application was able to detect stars not visible to the human eye as well. If I tried to draw a line about what's considered a "clearly visible star" or "somewhat visible star" I still ran into the same problem. No matter where I draw the line, there's a star just under that line and just above that line that visibly look the same.

It's like asking how many bald men are there are on earth. The problem cannot be solved without a precise definition of "hair", "man", and "bald" but these words by their nature are not precisely defined.
I imagine Geordi, Data and Seven of Nine can see stars no one else can. Probably other characters, too.

Speaking of tracking the stars, how many of us have noticed the starfield glitch (inside Saturn's rings) in the TNG opening credits?
 
I imagine Geordi, Data and Seven of Nine can see stars no one else can. Probably other characters, too.

Speaking of tracking the stars, how many of us have noticed the starfield glitch (inside Saturn's rings) in the TNG opening credits?

sgFUv5v.png


Yea annoying :-) I never noticed it until about a year ago. Plus the crew walking in the observation lounge


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It's a glitch but not a glitch. The starfield in the opening credits is consistent the first few seasons. I can't remember which season it is, but they updated the planets in the opening credits and created a new starfield. They did notm however, update the final scene in the opening credits where the camera pans from the ringed planet (Saturn) to the Enterprise. That was still as originally filmed. End result is the starfield mismatch.
 
Speaking of tracking the stars, how many of us have noticed the starfield glitch (inside Saturn's rings) in the TNG opening credits?
It's a transition. A wipe. Just like the shots where the screen whites-out and we go to a new shot. If not, where did the planet go when the Enterprise comes sailing past?
 
Well, if I had to comment, I guess I'd say, whenever you see stars in any shot, how would you ever know whether they're always different stars, or perhaps sometimes the same stars in some cases?

I hope you got some real pleasure out of all the star counting.

That was nice, Kodos.
 
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This has to be the most overthought post ever. So much so I'm not sure if it's legit or a very elaborate troll.

Says the guy who argued for hundreds of pages about how big the new Enterprise is, complete with diagrams.
 
OP, I'm sorry to break it to you but none of those dots of light is a star -- they're VFX created for a TV show.
 
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You'd struggle to see many stars against a brightly lit foreground. It's the same problem as in photos taken by the Apollo astronauts on the lunar surface that are touted as "evidence" by "Moon hoax" conspiracy theorists.
 
I have no problem with being able to see stars thru Saturn's rings. They're not solid, you know, and quite thin actually.
 
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