How long does it take to achieve Kolinahr?

[JonnyQuest037]

While searching for a quote about Pon Farr at Star Trek Script Search, I came across this exchange from the VOY episode "Flashback":

TUVOK: I returned to Vulcan, where I spent several years in seclusion, immersing myself in the Kolinahr, a rigorous discipline intended to purge all emotions. I wanted to attain a state of pure and total logic.
JANEWAY: What happened?
TUVOK: Unfortunately, six years into my studies, I began the Pon farr. I took a mate.

We know from TMP that Spock spent no more than two and half years studying Kolinahr and was ready to achieve it when V'Ger came along.

So why did Tuvok study for six years while Spock completed his studies in two and half? Does everyone proceed through Kolinahr studies at their own pace? Did the studies become more complex between the times that Spock and Tuvok began them? Is Tuvok just a slow study? Did VOY ever go into more detail about this?

 

[matthunter]

I would imagine that any discipline that involves purging your emotions is going to vary from student to student. Like Buddhist enlightenment, a student might suddenly come to a realisation that took their master a lifetime. It's an understanding of oneself - a teacher can help, but it's ulitmately dependent on the student.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

I would imagine that any discipline that involves purging your emotions is going to vary from student to student. Like Buddhist enlightenment, a student might suddenly come to a realisation that took their master a lifetime. It's an understanding of oneself - a teacher can help, but it's ulitmately dependent on the student.

Interesting that the half-Vulcan Spock seemed to have an easier time of it than Tuvok did. You'd think it would be the other way around.

 

[BillJ]

Interesting that the half-Vulcan Spock seemed to have an easier time of it than Tuvok did.

Spock is badass!

 

[Guy Gardener]

It takes 6 and a half years, to 7 and a half years to achieve Kolinahr.

 

[BillJ]

It takes 6 and a half years, to 7 and a half years to achieve Kolinahr.

Apparently not, as Spock was "graduating" when the V'ger incident started.

FEMALE MASTER: (in Vulcan) You have labored for many seasons, Spock ...and you have proved yourself worthy ...to receive this symbol of pure logic.

 

[The Wormhole]

My guess would be Tuvok just has more difficulty repressing his emotions than Spock did. We know from the episode Gravity Tuvok had so much difficulty with his emotions as a teenager that he was sent to seclusion with an elder to master his emotions. And although we know Spock to be emotional in his adult youth (like smiling and screaming about the women in The Cage) he always has felt a motivation to be the most Vulcan possible, and was more driven to accomplish anything to be so, until he realized it wasn't what he really wanted.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

It takes 6 and a half years, to 7 and a half years to achieve Kolinahr.

Got a source or reasoning for saying that, or is this just your personal theory?

 

[Guy Gardener]

Tuvok's studying got bolloxed by pon far on year 6.

Did pon far hit early, or did Tuvok have to repeat a year because he was a dummy?

In Blood Fever Tuvok did say that you can counter Pon Far with meditation.

(I think that's a lie and an alibi, or code for masturbation.)

Can Kolinahr and Pon Far coexist, or can in some cases Kolinahr tell Pon far to "skip a cycle or two". To "get back to me in 14 years when I'm not so busy".

For some reason I'm thinking that it's all or nothing, and if Pon Far takes hold, by the time it lets your go, you have to start from the beginning again with Kolinahr.

Therefore it can't take longer than 7 years to purge your emotions.

Unless, it's not a seven year degree to purge your emotions, it's that the "final exam" is suppressing Pon Far, however long you have to wait for that to rear up.

 

[-Brett-]

Usually takes me about 5 to 10 minutes.

 

[Spot261]

There's an online course that guarantees results in thirty days or your money back
before:

after:

 

[Bad Thoughts]

So why did Tuvok study for six years while Spock completed his studies in two and half? Does everyone proceed through Kolinahr studies at their own pace? Did the studies become more complex between the times that Spock and Tuvok began them? Is Tuvok just a slow study? Did VOY ever go into more detail about this?

To be fair, Spock threw the whole thing out the window when he got psychically turned on by V'ger--he really had not completed the training. Maybe he would have been required to start at the beginning.

 

[Ronald Held]

Not canonical, but there must be a limit to which one is able to achieve that state. Implicitly there are limited resources for students.
As to Spock, we do not know if without the presence of V'Ger, he would have passed the final mind melds.

 

[Kor]

There's more wiggle room if we throw out the questionable notion from the Okudas (and the novelverse?) that TMP takes place only a couple years after the five-year mission.

Kor

 

[BillJ]

As to Spock, we do not know if without the presence of V'Ger, he would have passed the final mind melds.

What final mind melds? She only asks Spock for his thoughts after he rejects the necklace.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

To be fair, Spock threw the whole thing out the window when he got psychically turned on by V'ger--he really had not completed the training. Maybe he would have been required to start at the beginning.

Spock was at the very end of his training. What we saw in TMP was essentially his graduation ceremony. If he hadn't detected V'Ger, he may very well have achieved Kolinahr.

There's more wiggle room if we throw out the questionable notion from the Okudas (and the novelverse?) that TMP takes place only a couple years after the five-year mission.

Yeah, I believe that notion goes back a lot further than the Okuda Chronology.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

Why does Kirk have a slice of pizza on his neck?

 

[Bad Thoughts]

Spock was at the very end of his training. What we saw in TMP was essentially his graduation ceremony. If he hadn't detected V'Ger, he may very well have achieved Kolinahr.

I'm not sure why we would compare obtaining Kolinahr to advancing to middle school. However, there are numerous high profile cases in which various degrees and credentials have not been awarded at the last minute for failure to pass comprehensive oral examination, not submitting edits after examination, and for findings of falsified or plagiarized results after the award took place.

 

[Shat Happens]

Kolinahr is like hot water: if you dont keep giving it heat, it reverts back to cold water.

 

[Ronald Held]

What final mind melds? She only asks Spock for his thoughts after he rejects the necklace.

I believe there are mind melds to ascertain whether the candidate achieved Kohlinahr. I can see a ritual associated with graduation but not a pro forma one.