How 'Johnny' can still be 'Sam'

[doctorwho 03]

I think I just figured out how all the supposed continuity problems with STXI can work in this new universe.

The revelation came about while reading the Marvel limited series MARVEL 1602. In the story, Captain America from an alternate, possible future of the Marvel universe is captured and sent back in time to the 17th Century. His arrival in the past causes a ripple effect throughout time, both past and future, and jump starts the Marvel universe 3 centuries before it should. Familiar Marvel heroes now exist in this time with full histories of their own that extend to even before Caps arrival. I believe that is what happened in STXI. The arrival of the Narada in the 23rd Century caused a similar ripple effect throughout time, changing people and events and jump starting a TOS that is similar but different. That's how Chekov can be 17 instead of 21 like he used to be. That's how 'Johnny' can still be 'Sam'.

 

[Dukhat]

I think I just figured out how all the supposed continuity problems with STXI can work in this new universe.

The revelation came about while reading the Marvel limited series MARVEL 1602. In the story, Captain America from an alternate, possible future of the Marvel universe is captured and sent back in time to the 17th Century. His arrival in the past causes a ripple effect throughout time, both past and future, and jump starts the Marvel universe 3 centuries before it should. Familiar Marvel heroes now exist in this time with full histories of their own that extend to even before Caps arrival. I believe that is what happened in STXI. The arrival of the Narada in the 23rd Century caused a similar ripple effect throughout time, changing people and events and jump starting a TOS that is similar but different. That's how Chekov can be 17 instead of 21 like he used to be. That's how 'Johnny' can still be 'Sam'.

OK.

 

[Amaris]

I think I just figured out how all the supposed continuity problems with STXI can work in this new universe.

The revelation came about while reading the Marvel limited series MARVEL 1602. In the story, Captain America from an alternate, possible future of the Marvel universe is captured and sent back in time to the 17th Century. His arrival in the past causes a ripple effect throughout time, both past and future, and jump starts the Marvel universe 3 centuries before it should. Familiar Marvel heroes now exist in this time with full histories of their own that extend to even before Caps arrival. I believe that is what happened in STXI. The arrival of the Narada in the 23rd Century caused a similar ripple effect throughout time, changing people and events and jump starting a TOS that is similar but different. That's how Chekov can be 17 instead of 21 like he used to be. That's how 'Johnny' can still be 'Sam'.

Interesting, however, it would be much easier to simply state that due to the rippling effects of this alternate universe and the time deviations caused by Nero, not everything is quite the same in this incarnation of Star Trek.

 

[SheliakBob]

"Up is down, left is right and sideways is straight ahead."

 

[iguana_tonante]

Maybe he called out "Georgey!" and we misheard the line.

Since Kirk never actually met his father George in this continuity, maybe he never developed the peculiar idiosyncrasy of calling his brother George Samuel by his second name.

Or more simply: I don't really care.

 

[Aragorn]

"That's not Uncle Frank's car you're washing, it belonged to Dad. And what's up with him calling me Johnny all the time? Johnny's the name of the dog!"

Problem solved.

 

[Therin of Andor]

That's how 'Johnny' can still be 'Sam'.

In the Prime Universe, Jim calls George Samuel Kirk Jr "Sammy", and is the only person to do so. But in the altered universe, maybe Jim calls George Samuel Kirk Jr "Johnny", a nickname that has evolved from some shared event in their lives. Maybe George Jr has a habit of arriving late and is a "Johhny Come Lately"? Maybe he does his best thinking on "the John"? Thousands of possibilities.

My Dad and his older brother used to call each other "Fezzo", right through to adulthood and into their 70s. It apparently related to a family in-joke that happened at a party when they were teenagers, and one of them arrived wearing a fez - and both had a turn wearing it during that evening. Nicknames can come from anywhere.

 

[vess]

That's how 'Johnny' can still be 'Sam'.

In the Prime Universe, Jim calls George Samuel Kirk Jr "Sammy", and is the only person to do so. But in the altered universe, maybe Jim calls George Samuel Kirk Jr "Johnny", a nickname that has evolved from some shared event in their lives. Maybe George Jr has a habit of arriving late and is a "Johhny Come Lately"? Maybe he does his best thinking on "the John"? Thousands of possibilities.

My Dad and his older brother used to call each other "Fezzo", right through to adulthood and into their 70s. It apparently related to a family in-joke that happened at a party when they were teenagers, and one of them arrived wearing a fez - and both had a turn wearing it during that evening. Nicknames can come from anywhere.

This, most probably.

 

[I-Am-Zim]

There are many possibilities. We are dealing with an alternate universe here. However, it wouldn't have been that hard to have just had little Jimmy call him "Sam" or "Sammy" when he drove by. Why they decided not to do that is beyond me. Unless, of course, "Johnny" wasn't actually his brother. According to what was seen on screen (not counting the "Kirk Brothers" deleted scene), James Kirk is apparently an only child in the Abramsverse. So that would be perfectly logical according to on-screen evidence.

 

[Therin of Andor]

it wouldn't have been that hard to have just had little Jimmy call him "Sam" or "Sammy" when he drove by. Why they decided not to do that is beyond me.

Once the longer dialogue scene between the brothers and the step-father was dropped, they relooped the "Hey Sammy!" line so as not to confuse regular audiences who would have assumed Jim was an only child, due to no evidence of an older brother on the Kelvin.

 

[Chrisisall]

Once the longer dialogue scene between the brothers and the step-father was dropped, they relooped the "Hey Sammy!" line so as not to confuse regular audiences who would have assumed Jim was an only child, due to no evidence of an older brother on the Kelvin.

Logical.

 

[Gojira]

That's how 'Johnny' can still be 'Sam'.

In the Prime Universe, Jim calls George Samuel Kirk Jr "Sammy", and is the only person to do so. But in the altered universe, maybe Jim calls George Samuel Kirk Jr "Johnny", a nickname that has evolved from some shared event in their lives. Maybe George Jr has a habit of arriving late and is a "Johhny Come Lately"? Maybe he does his best thinking on "the John"? Thousands of possibilities.

My Dad and his older brother used to call each other "Fezzo", right through to adulthood and into their 70s. It apparently related to a family in-joke that happened at a party when they were teenagers, and one of them arrived wearing a fez - and both had a turn wearing it during that evening. Nicknames can come from anywhere.

I like this explanation. I have a good friend whose name is Thomas Edward...but every one, family included, calls him Tim.

 

[CommanderRaytas]

I think this ripple-through-time thing could definitely work... I rationalised the whole thing to myself this way, too. Only I came to the conclusion that in this new timeline, Jim Kirk is an only child.

 

[doctorwho 03]

Ok, I guess the only child thing also works with the theory, but I still like to think Kirk has a brother, just not called Sam. Who's to say that 'Johnny' wasn't back on Earth being looked after by grandparents because Starfleet regulations don't allow young children on starships, and that the Kelvin was heading back to Earth to drop off the Kirks when the Narada came crashing through time. But the only child thing works just as well.

 

[Broccoli]

it wouldn't have been that hard to have just had little Jimmy call him "Sam" or "Sammy" when he drove by. Why they decided not to do that is beyond me.

Once the longer dialogue scene between the brothers and the step-father was dropped, they relooped the "Hey Sammy!" line so as not to confuse regular audiences who would have assumed Jim was an only child, due to no evidence of an older brother on the Kelvin.

Well, it's not like he said "Hey, Johnny! My brother from the dad I never met!" If Kirk yelled out "Georgie", regular audiences wouldn't have know the difference, but fans would have caught the reference (much like Kirk snacking on an apple during the Kobayashi Maru).

In unrelated news, I really don't care if that kid ended up as Kirk's brother or not.

 

[Therin of Andor]

If Kirk yelled out "Georgie", regular audiences wouldn't have know the difference, but fans would have caught the reference

That's been my own position all along. Obviously someone overruled the idea and they erred on the side of caution. General audiences had only just met a George Kirk, and seen him die. Now here was another character called George?

Even if Jimmy had yelled, "Hey Georgie!", people would have complained that it was crucial evidence that JJ didn't care about ST canon and he should have said, "Hey Sammy!"

If he'd yelled, "Hey Sammy!", people would have complained that it was evidence that JJ stupidly hadn't considered how Nero's actions had altered the Kirks' lives.

 

[M'Sharak]

If Kirk yelled out "Georgie", regular audiences wouldn't have know the difference, but fans would have caught the reference

That's been my own position all along. Obviously someone overruled the idea and they erred on the side of caution. General audiences had only just met a George Kirk, and seen him die. Now here was another character called George?

Even if Jimmy had yelled, "Hey Georgie!", people would have complained that it was crucial evidence that JJ didn't care about ST canon and he should have said, "Hey Sammy!"

If he'd yelled, "Hey Sammy!", people would have complained that it was evidence that JJ stupidly hadn't considered how Nero's actions had altered the Kirks' lives.

And if Kirk had merely yelled "Hey, man!", he'd still be a punk in some people's eyes for having the poor manners to use a slangy term like "man".

Oh, wait...

 

[Therin of Andor]

And if Kirk had merely yelled "Hey, man!", he'd still be a punk in some people's eyes for having the poor manners to use a slangy term like "man".

"Why are you talkin' to me, man?"

 

[Devon]

And if Kirk had merely yelled "Hey, man!", he'd still be a punk in some people's eyes for having the poor manners to use a slangy term like "man".

"Why are you talkin' to me, man?"

A couple of people complained about that actually. Apparently in Genetopia, "man" is something you just don't say. Ever. Not once.

 

[CommanderRaytas]

Seriously, I never got why that is supposed to be a problem. Jeez. Some people really need to sort out their priorities imo.