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How Is The Federation President Elected or Chosen?

The "one citizen, one vote" has another problem in my opinion.

What if you had a brand new Federation member with billions of people.

And you have a Federation member that has been around for two centuries and been a solid contributor for all that time. But because it is a small, largely barren world the population is never that large. Only a hundred million at the best of times.

Would it really be fair for a brand new Federation member to so thoroughly outvote that of a centuries old member world?

What, you're saying that some citizens are more valuable than others? Some citizens are more equal than others?

It's perfectly fair. They're sentient beings, they're equal under the law, and no distinction is made between them on the basis of presidential elections. The votes cast by, say, 10 million Andorians are not distinguished from the votes cast by 4 billion Betazoids, because Andorians and Betazoids are equal under the law. What you're suggesting would be to say that Andorian citizens are somehow more valuable and, therefore, legally superior. That's legal discrimination.

You're also forgetting that there's no particular reason to think that any given planet would vote all one way or the other. You could have a situation where all sorts of percentages of each individual Federation Member State's electorates go to the same two or three candidates.

Also, this is a more benign society than ours. I'm sure that Federation presidential candidates make it a point NOT to avoid spending time courting smaller worlds just because they have low populations because to do so would invite public ridicule and censure. Plus, it's not like they have to worry about money the way real campaigns do today.

We know from DS9's "Paradise Lost" that the Federation President is democratically elected.

I guess you are the perfect person to ask, Sci: what does it mean, "democratically elected"?

Excellent question. Of course, that's also the sort of question that you could design an entire year's worth of political science courses around! The canon is very vague; it refers to him as being democratically elected, but doesn't specify if this democratic election was parliamentary, indirect, or popular.

In the DS9 episode, the President refers to having been elected and being morally indebted to his voters. He does not refer to having been democratically elected, though, not by those words.

Well, not exactly. Here are the relevant passages from "Homefront" and "Paradise Lost:"

DEEP SPACE NINE: "Homefront" - 11/04/95 - ACT FIVE 55.

50 CONTINUED: (5)

The President sits down in his chair, crushed under the
weight of his responsibility.

JARESH-INYO
I never sought this job. I was
content to simply represent my
people on the Federation Council.
When they asked me to submit my
name for election, I almost said
no. Today I wish I had.

SISKO
Do you think the other Federation
worlds are going to sit back and
let their President be replaced by
a military dictatorship?

LEYTON
Hardly a dictatorship, Ben.

Sisko can't believe what he's hearing. He's having a
hard time controlling his righteous indignation.

SISKO
Overthrowing a legitimately
elected President and giving
Starfleet direct control over
the government? Sounds like a
dictatorship to me. And I'm sure
I won't be the only one who thinks
so.

Hmmmm. In transcribing that, it seems I made an error earlier! The canon describes the president as being "legitimately elected," not "democratically elected." The implication seems to be that it's a democratic system, but one could certainly creatively re-interpret that if one wishes.
 
I prefer to think that he is selected by the council, I don't see how it could be a direct vote because the Federation is too big for that.

They have computer systems capable of processing so much data that they made up a fake unit of measurement for it -- a quad. I think they can probably design a computer program capable of adding votes. ;)

In one episode of DS9 they said it took a signal 6 weeks to get from one side of the Federation to the other. Imagine voting and not knowing the result for a month.

Eh. Big deal. You have the election and then you spend a month talking about it but not doing anything -- you know, sorta like what happens in November.

The wait would cause news pundits heads to explode!

You say that like it's a bad thing!

I see the Federation as more of an European Union type structure; nation states that come together under a common set of principles for social, economic and scientific advantage. Countries in the EU have our own laws and governments, but we also have an EU-wide institution that passes laws on a range of issues. The EU has plans to create the post of an EU President who would be appointed by the nation states, but their powers would only be over the running of EU institutions.

Well, that's sorta the ultimate question with the European Union, isn't it? Does the European Union represent the European states, or does it represent the European states' peoples?

It's like the difference between the US federal government and the United Nations.

The US federal government does not represent the states. The Governor of the State of Ohio doesn't get to appoint delegates to the United States Congress; the US federal government represents the people of the United States, and, as such, the state governments go unrepresented in Washington (unless they hire lobbyists, of course, but, hey, no system is perfect). Now, sure, the US Senate USED to represent the state governments, but not anymore.

Meanwhile, the United Nations does not represent the peoples of its Member States. Rather, the United Nations represents its Member States. Ergo, the US Ambassador to the UN is appointed by the US President with approval from Congress; he or she is not elected by the people of the United States. The US Ambassador to the UN represents the United States, not the people of the United States.

So that's the question that the EU has to answer: Is it an association of states, or is it an association of peoples? Does it work for the governments of Europe, or does it work for the peoples of Europe?

And, by extension, we have to ask the same thing about the Federation.

The only way around this would be some form of political party system that spans the Federation, and I am very hopeful that in the future political parties are abolished.

People talk about that idea a lot, but in a lot of ways it's both absurdly utopian and itself undemocratic. Democracies cannot function without multiple, competitive political parties. They just can't. Party-less democracies have been attempted, and they invariably either revert to partisanship or they degenerate into dictatorships.

Political parties are as necessary to the proper functioning of democracies as food is to life. Without them, the electorate doesn't have a strong voting cue for which candidate is more likely to adopt the ideology and mindset its members prefer in their candidates, especially if the election is not for a major national or provincial office. Without a political party, candidates are unable to marshall the kinds of resources, in terms of both money and personnel, that they need to communicate their message to the voters. There's this notion that you can have democracy without parties, but that's utterly fallacious; just check out how low voter turnout always is in non-partisan races in your local area and you'll see why.

To get back to Trek...

For what it's worth, the novels have established that whilst there are Federation Member State political parties, such as the New Progressive Party of Andor, there are no Federation-wide political parties. (I think that's absurd, but whatever.)
 
The only way around this would be some form of political party system that spans the Federation, and I am very hopeful that in the future political parties are abolished.

People talk about that idea a lot, but in a lot of ways it's both absurdly utopian and itself undemocratic. Democracies cannot function without multiple, competitive political parties. They just can't. Party-less democracies have been attempted, and they invariably either revert to partisanship or they degenerate into dictatorships.

Political parties are as necessary to the proper functioning of democracies as food is to life. Without them, the electorate doesn't have a strong voting cue for which candidate is more likely to adopt the ideology and mindset its members prefer in their candidates, especially if the election is not for a major national or provincial office. Without a political party, candidates are unable to marshall the kinds of resources, in terms of both money and personnel, that they need to communicate their message to the voters. There's this notion that you can have democracy without parties, but that's utterly fallacious; just check out how low voter turnout always is in non-partisan races in your local area and you'll see why.

To get back to Trek...

For what it's worth, the novels have established that whilst there are Federation Member State political parties, such as the New Progressive Party of Andor, there are no Federation-wide political parties. (I think that's absurd, but whatever.)

QFT, except for the last point.

It's not, necessarily, absurd. Political parties require a modicum of basic commonality to organize around - at least in political culture. It's not necessarily a given, for instance, that all Federation members are democracies or republican in government.

Remember that by all appearances (except, weirdly, for the Presidency), the UFP is basically an uprated UN - to the point, I remember, that Franz-Joseph's "Starfleet Technical Manual" had a Fed Constitution that was pretty much a cut and paste of the UN Charter.

UN Member States, and presumably UFP Member Governments, are *very much* sovereign. It may be that attempting to organize UFP-wide parties is, beyond being logistically difficult and not unlike herding cats, simply not worth the effort - as enough members may not even elect their UFP-level officials to make a difference.

That said, even without formal political parties, I would be unsurprised to see various blocs/coalitions forming on assorted issues.
 
I think in all likelihood the Federation President is chosen by the Council. Or the Council at least nominates the candidates for president and a larger body votes on them.

Direct votes make no sense.

Some planets like Earth might well select their representatives by direct vote.

But other cultures probably would not.

Some might select only the "oldest and wisest".

Some militaristic worlds might require a level of miltary success before a person can represent them.

Others might simply take turns.

There is no reasonable reason one should equate "utopian" with "democratic".
 
Well, that's sorta the ultimate question with the European Union, isn't it? Does the European Union represent the European states, or does it represent the European states' peoples?

It's like the difference between the US federal government and the United Nations.

The US federal government does not represent the states. The Governor of the State of Ohio doesn't get to appoint delegates to the United States Congress; the US federal government represents the people of the United States, and, as such, the state governments go unrepresented in Washington (unless they hire lobbyists, of course, but, hey, no system is perfect). Now, sure, the US Senate USED to represent the state governments, but not anymore.

Meanwhile, the United Nations does not represent the peoples of its Member States. Rather, the United Nations represents its Member States. Ergo, the US Ambassador to the UN is appointed by the US President with approval from Congress; he or she is not elected by the people of the United States. The US Ambassador to the UN represents the United States, not the people of the United States.

So that's the question that the EU has to answer: Is it an association of states, or is it an association of peoples? Does it work for the governments of Europe, or does it work for the peoples of Europe?

And, by extension, we have to ask the same thing about the Federation.

The only way around this would be some form of political party system that spans the Federation, and I am very hopeful that in the future political parties are abolished.

People talk about that idea a lot, but in a lot of ways it's both absurdly utopian and itself undemocratic. Democracies cannot function without multiple, competitive political parties. They just can't. Party-less democracies have been attempted, and they invariably either revert to partisanship or they degenerate into dictatorships.

Political parties are as necessary to the proper functioning of democracies as food is to life. Without them, the electorate doesn't have a strong voting cue for which candidate is more likely to adopt the ideology and mindset its members prefer in their candidates, especially if the election is not for a major national or provincial office. Without a political party, candidates are unable to marshall the kinds of resources, in terms of both money and personnel, that they need to communicate their message to the voters. There's this notion that you can have democracy without parties, but that's utterly fallacious; just check out how low voter turnout always is in non-partisan races in your local area and you'll see why.

To get back to Trek...

For what it's worth, the novels have established that whilst there are Federation Member State political parties, such as the New Progressive Party of Andor, there are no Federation-wide political parties. (I think that's absurd, but whatever.)


The EU is both; it represents both the people of Europe and the states of Europe. It has two bodies main to bring in legislation; the European Commission which is appointed by the nation-states and the European Parliament which is directly voted in by the people. While certain things in the EU (such as the EU budget) need to have the approval of all member states, there are many other areas where they can pass laws under objection from the member states. It does not need to be classified as one or the other, it is both. I see the Federation in the same way.

As for political parties, they do have their uses, but they are incredibly stifling of ideas. They also breed complacency and corruption. Political parties survive because a group of people banding together will always beat an individual. I'd just like to think that in the future people will turn away from political parties and start to vote based on ideas rather than which person is the member of the party their family votes for. I'm an idealist. ;)

As for voter turnout in my area in a non-partisan election; we don't have any of those, we have six main political parties and five seats up for grabs in my city. The main political party here ran three candidates against one another. It's organised chaos. :techman:
 
It's not, necessarily, absurd. Political parties require a modicum of basic commonality to organize around - at least in political culture. It's not necessarily a given, for instance, that all Federation members are democracies or republican in government.

Well, this is a bit tricky, because Star Trek has generally been careful to avoid going into detail about the mechanics of Federation politics. BUT...

I think that it is a given that the Federation's Member States are all democracies of some sort. That seems to have been one of the requirements for Federation Membership, right up there along with the abolition of caste-based discrimination and planetary unity. We've certainly never seen any evidence of a non-democratic Federation government -- know from ENT, for instance, that Vulcan was governed by a First Minister (another term for a Prime Minister) before he was overthrown after the P'Jem incident ("Home") and V'Las seized control, consolidating power in the High Command Administrator's office. Presumably once the High Command was dissolved ("Kir'Shara"), the First Minister became head of government again.

We also know from ENT that the Andorian Empire is actually governed by a Chancellor -- which is yet another term for PM.

We know from DS9 that Bajor, a planet that was considered to meet the requirements for Federation Membership, was a democracy, albeit a troubled one early on.

We know from ENT's "Demons" that high-ranking members of the United Earth government carry the title "Minister," once again suggesting a Parliamentary form of government.

If we expand our pallet to include information established in the novels, the evidence is overwhelming that the Federation is a democracy and requires the same of its Member States:

* There is an elected Governor of Betazed. (Articles of the Federation, The Battle of Betazed)
* There is an elected President of Deneva (Articles of the Federation)
* There is an elected Governor of Cestus III (A Time for War, A Time for Peace)
* United Earth is governed by an elected Parliament and Prime Minister (The Good That Men Do, A Less Perfect Union)
* The Andorian Empire was unified as a constitutional monarchy, with the Empty Throne symbolically reigning over the Parliament Andoria and the Chancellor (Andor: Paradigm)
* The People's Republic of Coridan is governed by an elected Chancellor (The Good That Men Do)
* The Confederacy of Vulcan is governed by the Vulcan Council, which choses the First Minister (The Good That Men Do, Kobayashi Maru)
* The President of Trill is an elected position, along with the Trill Senate (Trill: Unjoined)

We've seen literally dozens of examples of democratic Federation governments, and no examples of undemocratic Federation governments in the 24th Century. Heck, Trill: Unjoined even contains a passage where Bashir muses that every Federation world is a democracy. I'll transcribe it for ya once I have it.

Remember that by all appearances (except, weirdly, for the Presidency), the UFP is basically an uprated UN - to the point, I remember, that Franz-Joseph's "Starfleet Technical Manual" had a Fed Constitution that was pretty much a cut and paste of the UN Charter.

Well, it's fair to say that it was initially based on the UN, but the depiction of the UFP is such that it was later portrayed as having acquired all of the traits of a state in its own right, rather than just an intergovernmental organization. The biggest example of that, as you note, is the presence of a President, but there's also the presence of Starfleet, a dedicated military force for the Federation. There's the fact that the Federation Council is depicted as having the right and ability to make binding law throughout all of Federation space ("Force of Nature"). There's the fact that the Federation President is legally empowered to declare martial law on Federation worlds without consulting those worlds' governments ("Homefront"). There's the fact that there is a Federation Supreme Court that is the highest court of appeal ("Dr. Bashir, I Presume?") There's the fact that the Federation is capable of declaring war (DS9 Dominion War arc) and of conducting foreign policy on behalf of all of its worlds without needing their governments' permissions. There's the fact that the Federation has its own currency during TOS called the Federation Credit. There's the presence of a Federation civilian police corps called Federation Security in Star Trek III. There's the fact that the Federation Constitution is considered to be the supreme law of the UFP along with its Guarantees of universal rights ("The Perfect Mate," "The Drumhead"). There's even a "traditional Federation culture and traditional Federation values" sense of common nostalgia, as indicated by the New Essentialists in "Let He Who Is Without Sin...," indicating a common Federation culture of sorts. It has its own set of well-defined territory over which it has exclusive jurisdiction ("The Best of Both Worlds"). Etc.

Clearly, the Federation is far more unified than the UN. It's not just a mere intergovernmental organization -- it's a state in its own right.

UN Member States, and presumably UFP Member Governments, are *very much* sovereign.

Given the numerous cases we've seen where Federation law trumps over Federation Member State law, but also the numerous cases we've seen where Federation Member States have exclusive jurisdiction over a given issue (i.e., Scotty being accused of murder, etc.), I would theorize that the Federation is just what its name implies -- a federation that practices federalism, the division of powers between the central and provincial governments. More than a mere IGO or alliance, but not a unitary state, either.

That said, even without formal political parties, I would be unsurprised to see various blocs/coalitions forming on assorted issues.

Well, even if you don't have formal parties, I promise you that you would see exactly that -- informal blocks and factions forming. It's just how things work. People connect with some and not with others, and people gather together to muster resources to communicate with the populace.

I think in all likelihood the Federation President is chosen by the Council.

Well, there's certainly nothing in the canon that contradicts that idea. But I would point out to you that the essential difference between a president and a prime minister is that a president is independent of the legislature, not chosen by it. Given that, if the Federation President was chosen by the Council, wouldn't he be called the Federation Prime Minister instead?

Or the Council at least nominates the candidates for president and a larger body votes on them.

I think that's more likely.

Direct votes make no sense.

Why not? If every Member State has adopted certain basic beliefs, such as a belief in democracy, there's no reason it couldn't work.

Some planets like Earth might well select their representatives by direct vote.

Well, you're talking about the Federation Council's membership now. That's a different topic.

For the record, the novels have established that each individual Member State determines for itself how it will select its Federation Councillor. The Federation Councillor from Betazed, for instance, is popularly elected, whilst the Federation Councillor from Bajor is appointed by the First Minister and confirmed by the Chamber of Ministers. And the Federation Councillor from Andor is determined by the majority party in the Parliament Andoria. Etc.

Each Member State gets one Federation Councillor, too. So if someone's concerned about low-population Federation Member States being ignored in favor of high-population ones during presidential elections, that's balanced out in the Council, where all the peoples of the Member States equally.

But other cultures probably would not.

What makes you say that?

Some might select only the "oldest and wisest".

And why would the Federation allow as a Member State a polity that denies to its citizenry a meaningful voice in their government? Why would the Federation allow amongst its numbers a government that does not have the consent of its governed?

The EU is both; it represents both the people of Europe and the states of Europe.

Well, good for the European Union if they're able to make that work. But, y'know, we tried that here in the US (House for the people, Senate for the states), and the inevitable conflict of interests between the people and the states eventually forced a change. Thank goodness, the US became an agency of its people, not its states, elsewise I think we would have had another civil war somewhere along the line. Maybe I'm being ethnocentric, but I don't trust that the EU -- or the Federation -- can continue straddling the fence on that issue, though.

It has two bodies main to bring in legislation; the European Commission which is appointed by the nation-states and the European Parliament which is directly voted in by the people. While certain things in the EU (such as the EU budget) need to have the approval of all member states, there are many other areas where they can pass laws under objection from the member states. It does not need to be classified as one or the other, it is both. I see the Federation in the same way.

Hmm. I dunno. Doesn't the European Parliament lack the right of legislative initiative?

As for political parties, they do have their uses, but they are incredibly stifling of ideas. They also breed complacency and corruption.

They certainly can. But I also think we should acknowledge that with the right leadership, political parties can inspire creativity and honesty. It really depends on who you put in charge.

Political parties survive because a group of people banding together will always beat an individual.

That's a part of it. The other part of why they'll always survive is that there's simply no other way to communicate with millions of people: You NEED a pre-existing political apparatus capable of mobilizing supporters and sending your message out if you're running for a major office. Elsewise, no one will know who you are or what your policies are.

As for voter turnout in my area in a non-partisan election; we don't have any of those, we have six main political parties and five seats up for grabs in my city. The main political party here ran three candidates against one another. It's organised chaos. :techman:

Aaaah. Well, here in Ohio, for instance, we elect the judges in state courts and the justices of the Ohio Supreme Court. They're non-partisan elections, which means that while the parties can make it known that Candidate A or B is the guy they support and is a member, on the actual ballot, A and B are not considered to be party candidates, they're all considered independents.

And voter turnout in those categories is always, always, always lower than it is on other parts of the ballot that have a "D" or an "R" next to the person's name. Because no one who doesn't do special research knows who these guys are, and so they don't have a voting cue to tell them, "This guy is more likely to agree with me than that guy."
 
We know from ENT's "Demons" that high-ranking members of the United Earth government carry the title "Minister," once again suggesting a Parliamentary form of government.

United Earth also has a President (SCE: The Future Begins), who is presumably the head of state, while the UE Prime Minister is head of government.
 
We know from ENT's "Demons" that high-ranking members of the United Earth government carry the title "Minister," once again suggesting a Parliamentary form of government.

United Earth also has a President (SCE: The Future Begins), who is presumably the head of state, while the UE Prime Minister is head of government.

Yep! Forgot about her! Thanks. :)
 
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