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How is it legal for Star Trek fanzines to be sold on Amazon and eBay?

Extrocomp

Fleet Captain
Fleet Captain
I always thought that the difference between professional fiction and fan fiction was that you can't sell fan fiction for profit. But then I discovered that there were lots of people selling fanzines on Amazon.com and eBay, some for as much as $200.

If fanzines can be bought and sold just like professional fiction, then what's the difference between the two?
 
Re: How is it legal for Star Trek fanzines to be sold on Amazon and eB

But fanzines are different - but I presume fanzines have always been sold for profit?

Not legally. At most, you could charge for shipping and maybe printing costs, enough to break even. Mostly, I think, they were given away at conventions.

There is no difference whatsoever in legality between print works and electronic works. Regardless of the medium, licensed tie-ins can be sold for profit, but unauthorized ones cannot. Amazon Worlds is licensed, as stated, but if people are making a profit off of unlicensed fanfic, that sounds like an infringement to me.
 
Re: How is it legal for Star Trek fanzines to be sold on Amazon and eB

Maybe CBS Studios has simply never noticed that eBay and Amazon are selling Star Trek fanzines for huge sums of money. Anyone want to tell them?
 
Re: How is it legal for Star Trek fanzines to be sold on Amazon and eB

Nobody is paying $200 for a fanzine.
 
Re: How is it legal for Star Trek fanzines to be sold on Amazon and eB

Fanzines are a fan phenomenon and Trek fans were some of the first to publish them to keep the spirit of Trek alive. The fact that some of them are now considered collectables puts them in a different class in my mind. Now a currently published fanzine would be another matter altogether. So, I see nothing whatsoever with someone putting his collection up for sale. Do I think it's worth $200? Nope!
 
Re: How is it legal for Star Trek fanzines to be sold on Amazon and eB

Wait, Extrocomp is talking about collections of fanzines from back in the 70s and 80s being sold today for $200? I assumed they were talking about modern fanzines, I couldn't figure out how that even made sense as a price point. Okay, that makes a lot more sense. And I can't imagine any company bothering to even send a C&D for someone selling fanzines from literally decades ago.
 
Re: How is it legal for Star Trek fanzines to be sold on Amazon and eB

Wait, Extrocomp is talking about collections of fanzines from back in the 70s and 80s being sold today for $200? I assumed they were talking about modern fanzines...

In 1982, I created an art-based Trek fanzine. It cost me exactly $5 per copy to make, there were 100 copies (plus a few contributors' copies) and I was almost sold out in a year. When I still had about five copies left - still at $5 each, so I wouldn't make a profit - I heard that one sold, second hand, at an interstate convention auction for $78.

Sigh.
 
Re: How is it legal for Star Trek fanzines to be sold on Amazon and eB

In 1982, I created an art-based Trek fanzine. It cost me exactly $5 per copy to make, there were 100 copies (plus a few contributors' copies) and I was almost sold out in a year. When I still had about five copies left - still at $5 each, so I wouldn't make a profit - I heard that one sold, second hand, at an interstate convention auction for $78.

Sigh.

Brunt FCA would be disgusted. Hew-mons. :sigh::shrug::lol:
 
Re: How is it legal for Star Trek fanzines to be sold on Amazon and eB

The resale of fanzines I would assume would be covered under the "first sale" doctrine. Once a copy of an IP (and the fanzine itself is the IP of the fanzine author/producer) is sold, the subsequent owner of that individual copy is free to dispose of it as he/she chooses.

SCOTUS just upheld "first sale" in 2013 in an important case.

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/03/thai-student-protected-by-first-sale-supreme-court-rules/
 
Re: How is it legal for Star Trek fanzines to be sold on Amazon and eB

The resale of fanzines I would assume would be covered under the "first sale" doctrine. Once a copy of an IP (and the fanzine itself is the IP of the fanzine author/producer) is sold, the subsequent owner of that individual copy is free to dispose of it as he/she chooses.

SCOTUS just upheld "first sale" in 2013 in an important case.

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/03/thai-student-protected-by-first-sale-supreme-court-rules/

I don't think that ruling would apply to fanzines since they are not "lawfully made".
 
Re: How is it legal for Star Trek fanzines to be sold on Amazon and eB

Honestly, Extrocomp, even if you did report this to CBS Paramount, I don't think they'd even bother sending a C&D because there'd be no point in it. This isn't lost sales for them, no one's choosing to spend this much for fanzines instead of official Trek products, and copyright isn't a "defend it or lose it" situation so they lose nothing by not sending a C&D. It's just not worth even that modicum of effort to them, there's literally nothing they'd get out of it. So I'd say report it if you want, but don't expect the report to actually do anything.

Best case for you, you shut down some individual sales but you don't change the overall market. Unless you want to constantly sit on Amazon and eBay and send a report every time anything like this comes up. And that's the best case.
 
Re: How is it legal for Star Trek fanzines to be sold on Amazon and eB

LOL, I wasn't actually planning on reporting this to CBS. I don't have any problem with it. I'm just interested in the legal issues involved with selling fanzines.

Copyright law may not be a "defend it or lose it" situation, but trademark law is. However, most fanzines don't actually include the words "Star Trek" in their title, so I'm not sure if trademark law is relevant, unless the Star Trek characters are also trademarks.
 
Re: How is it legal for Star Trek fanzines to be sold on Amazon and eB

LOL, I wasn't actually planning on reporting this to CBS. I don't have any problem with it. I'm just interested in the legal issues involved with selling fanzines.

If you've ever read the press kits for any of the ST movies, there is always an estimate by Paramount on the number of licensed novels and comics sold, and the existence of thousands of fanzines that kept ST alive, esp. between the end of TOS and the beginning of the film franchise.

The editors and publishers of unlicensed, amateur fanzines are not meant to make a profit from sales, but there is no way you can stop owners of individual copies the bought from fan publishers from selling them, second hand, decades after the fact. Fan productions that have infamously received C & D orders from the copyright holders have usually been fanzines that were deliberately made to resemble licensed ST paperbacks. Of course, with people now doing many fanzines as print-on-demand self-publishing, this aspect has probably not yet caught up with the law.

Bookwise, there was also ''The Joy of Trek: How to Enhance Your Relationship With a Star Trek Fan,'' published in 1997 by Carol Publishing Group.
http://www.nytimes.com/1998/05/02/nyregion/studio-sues-over-a-star-trek-book.html

If I recall correctly, the main objection to that book was that it boasted on the cover that the book contained "all you need..." to get up to speed on Trek to fool a loved one. Its attempt at legally-permitted parody (which would have saved its author) was not strong enough, and Paramount argued that people could avoid watching Trek by reading the excerpts in this book instead. Paramount won and the book was pulled from shelves.

If you read the fine print under theatrical lobby cards, they are meant to be returned to the studio after use - to be destroyed - and yet lobby card collecting has always been a lucrative aftermarket.
 
Re: How is it legal for Star Trek fanzines to be sold on Amazon and eB

I was in a bookshop in London the other day and saw The Unauthorised Guide to Star Trek Voyager. Picked it up to a flick through only to see it had been composed from "high quality Wikipedia articles". I knew such things existed on Amazon but didn't realise bookshops were selling them
Seems an easy way for the "author" to make money.
 
Re: How is it legal for Star Trek fanzines to be sold on Amazon and eB

I was in a bookshop in London the other day and saw The Unauthorised Guide to Star Trek Voyager. Picked it up to a flick through only to see it had been composed from "high quality Wikipedia articles". I knew such things existed on Amazon but didn't realise bookshops were selling them...

Yeah, they seem to have been picked up by online distribution groups. If the bookshop's ordering person isn't savvy, they'll get taken for a ride.
 
Re: How is it legal for Star Trek fanzines to be sold on Amazon and eB

I was in a bookshop in London the other day and saw The Unauthorised Guide to Star Trek Voyager. Picked it up to a flick through only to see it had been composed from "high quality Wikipedia articles". I knew such things existed on Amazon but didn't realise bookshops were selling them
Seems an easy way for the "author" to make money.

Perfectly legal as well as far as I am aware.
 
Re: How is it legal for Star Trek fanzines to be sold on Amazon and eB

Since this is about fan created stuff it seems like a good place to ask something I've been wondering about. How is it that fan productions like Phase II, Star Trek Continues, and Renegades, which are totally unrelated to Paramount but feature actors reprising their roles from the shows, and have even had episodes written by writers from the shows are not be forced to stop by Paramount. It's not exactly under the radar, and I think some of them, like Of Gods and Men, even sell DVDs so their not all non-profit. I can't believe that Paramount isn't aware of them.
 
Re: How is it legal for Star Trek fanzines to be sold on Amazon and eB

Since this is about fan created stuff it seems like a good place to ask something I've been wondering about. How is it that fan productions like Phase II, Star Trek Continues, and Renegades, which are totally unrelated to Paramount but feature actors reprising their roles from the shows, and have even had episodes written by writers from the shows are not be forced to stop by Paramount. It's not exactly under the radar, and I think some of them, like Of Gods and Men, even sell DVDs so their not all non-profit. I can't believe that Paramount isn't aware of them.

Mostly because a rights owner doesn't have any legal duty to stop a copyright violation; it's totally up to the rights owner, and there's no legal harm for letting something go, no matter how big the violation is. It doesn't even hurt their legal case if they go after a different violation or if they change their mind later.

I was in a bookshop in London the other day and saw The Unauthorised Guide to Star Trek Voyager. Picked it up to a flick through only to see it had been composed from "high quality Wikipedia articles". I knew such things existed on Amazon but didn't realise bookshops were selling them
Seems an easy way for the "author" to make money.

Perfectly legal as well as far as I am aware.

Depends; if it's the exact text, then they might have violated Wikipedia's CC license depending on how they released it (if they didn't release the book itself under the CC license, for example). If it's only based on Wikipedia as a solitary research source but it's an original work then yeah it's fine.
 
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