How is downloading not stealing?

[JoeZhang]

Well, you'll be laughing pretty easy until you eat the poison doughnut.

The odds are greater that I'd win the lottery or be struck by lighting while holding a winning lottery ticket. Why do you think people do so much downloading? because the chances of being taken to court are virtually zero, the chance of going to prison even less than that.

threats only work if a) you can back them up or b) people believe you can back them up.

 

[Misfit Toy]

Misfit Toy said:
I just don't understand why taking something that doesn't belong to you isn't stealing.

Because it's not taking, it's copying. Taking implies that the original owner doesn't have it anymore.

I don't think it does, but even so - if it doesn't belong to you, then it isn't yours. You do not have the right to take it. You do not have the right to copy it.

 

[Amaris]

Well, you'll be laughing pretty easy until you eat the poison doughnut.

The odds are greater that I'd win the lottery or be struck by lighting while holding a winning lottery ticket. Why do you think people do so much downloading? because the chances of being taken to court are virtually zero, the chance of going to prison even less than that.

threats only work if a) you can back them up or b) people believe you can back them up.

You wouldn't be saying that if I were the CEO of Krispy Kreme.


J.

 

[Arrqh]

Misfit Toy said:
I just don't understand why taking something that doesn't belong to you isn't stealing.

Because it's not taking, it's copying. Taking implies that the original owner doesn't have it anymore.

I don't think it does, but even so - if it doesn't belong to you, then it isn't yours. You do not have the right to take it. You do not have the right to copy it.

Yes but those are still two different concepts. And part of the definition of theft in pretty much every legal system I've seen includes removing possession from the original owner. You don't have the right to take it and you don't have the right to copy it... but you also don't have the right to take someone's life away. Is murder theft?

Look, all we're talking about here are the definitions of words. Theft has a specific definition that does not include copying because copying does not deprive the owner of their property. There is a different word for that which is infringement and an entirely separate section of law devoted to it, copyright law. They are two different concepts and two different crimes.

 

[Bishbot]

It sure is! The amount of money they charge when they have what is essentially a monopoly (unless you're a real computer afficianado) is absolutely criminal - especially as their product isn't that good, and doesn't have to be, because of the aforementioned monopoly.

Well, don't take the code. Just don't buy Windows. Use Linux or buy Mac OS or dozens of other operating systems that are free or cheap instead.

Or maybe by taking their code, I can convince them that their business practises are mental and they would have got my custom if they offered their easily reproduced DVD at a reasonable price.

Let's face it, most people use Windows because its what they know and like to use - Microsoft trade on that mercilessly - most people are never going to bother or even understand using some of the more niche operating systems.

I could, if I were so inclined, but your average computer user won't be able to, so charging tons of money for Windows because they have a captive audience is disgusting. As you say, other, better operating systems are free or at least cheaper, so Windows easily could be and Microsoft would still be richer than God. Screw them.

 

[Agent Richard07]

Netflix doesn't exist in Canada and I'm not aware of any other simliar service.

Zip.ca

 

[Amaris]

Or maybe by taking their code, I can convince them that their business practises are mental and they would have got my custom if they offered their easily reproduced DVD at a reasonable price.

Let's face it, most people use Windows because its what they know and like to use - Microsoft trade on that mercilessly - most people are never going to bother or even understand using some of the more niche operating systems.

I could, if I were so inclined, but your average computer user won't be able to, so charging tons of money for Windows because they have a captive audience is disgusting. As you say, other, better operating systems are free or at least cheaper, so Windows easily could be and Microsoft would still be richer than God. Screw them.

You assume that Microsoft can be persuaded. Remember, this is the company that made millions by selling vaporware, and continues to sell operating systems based on promises they push to the next OS and have done so for 28 years!

J.

 

[Lookingglassman]

I dont download stuff, but I know a bunch of people who do and they dont care if they are hurting the industry. They figure if it will save them some money then they will do it every chance they get.

 

[Nerdius Maximus]

I see downloading (and the internet as a whole, actually) as a double-edged sword, really. It has enabled music lovers to discover things that they would not otherwise have even heard of. It has enabled people like myself to find all kinds of rare stuff that's been out of print for years or would otherwise be extremely hard to find, thus saving me the trouble of having to pay some exorbitant price to some bootlegger.

Then there's the people who live under dictatorships in third world shitholes where everything is banned, and they have legal access to music that is not government-approved. They are able to discover bands and artists whose music is illegal in their country by downloading it. Even Lars Ulrich thinks this is great. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPRx9Q4IFHI He's cool with people downloading his stuff illegally if they have no other way to access it. The internet has made it much more difficult for oppressive governments to deny their people of information.

THere's a big part of me, however, that really misses the simpler days when you had to have a physical copy of something to hear it.(Which is why I started collecting vinyl a couple years ago. You can't download a record! It fulfills that need in me to "discover" things that no one else has) I buy cd's all the time, I support the bands I love, and I get annoyed when people tell me they download all their music, because I know they're talking about shit they could easily just go to the store and pick up. To me, downloading is a way to supplement my music collection with things that are not commercially available, or to check something out before I buy it. To them, it's a free ride. I don't like that. If you download an album, and you like it, go buy it! You don't even have to leave your house! Amazon.com! And though it makes me throw up a little in my mouth to say it, Itunes!

 

[Roger Wilco]

I just don't understand why taking something that doesn't belong to you isn't stealing.

I really don't know what's so difficult to understand about it. No reasonable definition of stealing says "taking something that doesn't belong to you". Depending on the circumstances that could apply to many different actions (and btw. imo it should at least be "taking away" if you're talking about theft, and there's no "away" with copying). If I defraud someone I "take away something that doesn't belong to me" too, but it isn't theft, it's fraud. And downloading copyright protected content is copyright infringement. What kind of "criminal value" you want to attach to that is up to you, but calling it theft is correct only colloquially at best.

 

[Bishbot]

You assume that Microsoft can be persuaded. Remember, this is the company that made millions by selling vaporware, and continues to sell operating systems based on promises they push to the next OS and have done so for 28 years!

J.

Exactly! Of course I don't think they can be persuaded, but those reasons are why I have literally no moral qualms about people ripping off their overpriced, substandard product.

 

[DBR]

The recent Wolverine leak has got me thinking about this more lately.

For all the people who download music and movies for free, how is this any different than walking into a store and stealing a CD or DVD? Outside how easy it is, it's exactly the same thing. I suspect most people who do this would look down on and frown upon actually shoplifting, so why is it okay otherwise? Because you're not hurting a retailer, only the major producer? Where's the logic in that?

I'm interested in how people rationalize it.

It is an interesting situation. I know someone named John Doe who downloaded the last 12 or so episodes of Battlestar Galactica because he was unable to watch them over the air on Friday nights. However, he will most assuredly be buying the final DVD set when it comes out in the next few months.

Yeah, it is stealing, but he doesn't feel guilty doing it. I guess the party that was directly effected here was the TV network.

 

[Garrovick]

I don't think it's really "stealing". Stealing involves the risk of getting caught "puting the item in your pocket". Like at a retail store.

It's just a simple lack of morals by those who insist it's their right to down load what they want when they want.

But, it still all boils down to It's being a Thief or not being a Thief. Plain and simple.

 

[TedShatner10]

While illegally downloading TV shows that are not in circulation is very tempting I'll stick around patiently until computer technology progresses more and current intellectual property laws are heavily revised to be more suited to the digital age. Is that the most sensible course of action?

 

[Bishbot]

While illegally downloading TV shows that are not in circulation is very tempting I'll stick around patiently until computer technology progresses more and current intellectual property laws are heavily revised to be more suited to the digital age. Is that the most sensible course of action?

No - get your download on.

 

[CorporalClegg]

Well, you'll be laughing pretty easy until you eat the poison doughnut.

The odds are greater that I'd win the lottery or be struck by lighting while holding a winning lottery ticket. Why do you think people do so much downloading? because the chances of being taken to court are virtually zero, the chance of going to prison even less than that.

threats only work if a) you can back them up or b) people believe you can back them up.

Just out of curiosity, has there been an extensive amount of cases/arrests of people who download? I know they've gone after a few people who put the stuff out there and there TPB, of course, but I don't remember seeing any since the Napster debacle and that like a decade ago. I did a quick goolge and didn't come up with anything.

 

[Garrovick]

Just out of curiosity, has there been an extensive amount of cases/arrests of people who download? I know they've gone after a few people who put the stuff out there and there TPB, of course, but I don't remember seeing any since the Napster debacle and that like a decade ago. I did a quick goolge and didn't come up with anything.

Not really, the last group I heard about to get a big Gibbs Slapp was a bunch of Kaza(sp) users who were goofy enough to use a Kaza e-mail addy.

 

[TedShatner10]

Why is Sony the worst company when it comes to copyright in recent years, why is it blatantly digging its own grave? From closing down Lik Sang to having unethical spyware on their software products, Sony's activities are the best example of why being paranoid and antagonistic with copyright protection merely encourages more piracy.

It is ironically better to steal from Sony, because they're more likely going to fuck you anyway. Subversively one of the reasons the original Playstation was such a smash hit was because it could easily be pirated since the software was on CDs instead of hardwire catridges.

 

[Rii]

^ Also one of the factors contributing to the success of Sony's MiniDisc format in Japan was that it allowed for relatively high-quality CD rips prior to the advent of affordable CD burners. This was more significant in Japan than the United States because CD rentals are widespread in Japan on account of significantly higher average prices for discs.

Incidentally, if Sony hadn't sabotaged their own format by creating the artificial distinction between MD-Data and MD-Audio, it's entirely possible that MiniDisc could've become a significant player in the portable data storage market from the mid to late-90s, likely displacing the Zip disk.

 

[TedShatner10]

Sony stubbon, greedy, ignorant stance on copyright protection must have cost them more than the piracy itself!