How is downloading not stealing?

[bigdaddy]

If I own a store-bought cassette from ages ago and have the gear to record the songs in MP3 format on my computer so I can make my own CDs, am I again running afoul of the law?

Some asshole music label sued someone for transferring his 2,000 plus CD collection to his computer, all of which were bought legally.

Of course this is the same assholes who said if you listened to the radio you were stealing because you didn't buy or rent the rights to listen to the music.

 

[Kelso]

^ How did they know that he transferred the music to his computer?

 

[Maestro]

I don't care for pirated music. As a music teacher, I can only say, "fuck that." I pay for the music I listen to, and I pay for the music my band plays.

However, as far as anything is concerned, if it's not commercially available, then all bets are off. Lots of people like Sweet's Little Willie. Not available for pep band. So I did my own arrangement. I'm not making it available for anyone other than my students. Did I break the law? Yep. Do I have a problem with it? Nope. It's not commercially available, it's not my problem. If it became commercially available, I'd bench my copy and play the legal one.

I would expect that tonight's Doctor Who Easter Special will be shortly available for illegal download. Should I download it or shouldn't I? When is it going to be broadcast in the US? When will it be available on DVD? No one actually knows. So since it won't be commercially available here in the near future, I'm probably going to download it. Rest assured, when I decide to download, I commit myself to purchase the DVD when it becomes available in the US.

I don't much care for separate release dates for movies either, but at least if a release date is posted, I'm going to respect it. Watching a pirated movie is a whole 'nuther kind of wrong that I don't even want to fathom it.

Here's the real moral of the story. We live in a global economy. If TV can't provide things in a reasonable timeline across the planet, it's not really my problem if I go to an alternate source of distribution. At least when it's on DVD, I'll buy it.

 

[Misfit Toy]

If I own a store-bought cassette from ages ago and have the gear to record the songs in MP3 format on my computer so I can make my own CDs, am I again running afoul of the law?

Some asshole music label sued someone for transferring his 2,000 plus CD collection to his computer, all of which were bought legally.

Of course this is the same assholes who said if you listened to the radio you were stealing because you didn't buy or rent the rights to listen to the music.

Where did you get your information?

 

[Kelso]

I would expect that tonight's Doctor Who Easter Special will be shortly available for illegal download. Should I download it or shouldn't I? When is it going to be broadcast in the US? When will it be available on DVD? No one actually knows. So since it won't be commercially available here in the near future, I'm probably going to download it. Rest assured, when I decide to download, I commit myself to purchase the DVD when it becomes available in the US.

I'm downloading it. I'll also be watching it on Scifi (someday in the distant future when they play it), I'll catch the re-run on BBCAmerica multiple times (while I am saving up for the DVD), and I'll be forking out a ridiculous sum of money for the DVD as soon as I can.

 

[TedShatner10]

Downloading TV/movie content that is practically impossible to buy through legitimate commercial channels is akin to the hypocrisy of Prohibition and the War Against Drugs. It happens more often than it should mainly due to the corporations forcing themselves down legal cul de sacs.

TV shows that have been butchered on DVD or not made available at all is mainly down to the inconvenient, unfair, if not out and out nonsensical whims of the music industry. True, true the 60s/70s period music for The Wonder Years is expensive, but only because the royalty fees have been prolonged and distorted beyond sustainability anyway, and why the fuck pay more than once?!

This is very poor business sense and seemingly decades out of sync with current technology.

 

[Maestro]

Kelso, you're a better man than me!

 

[Kelso]

Kelso, you're a better man than me!

Some things go without saying.


Nah, I just prefer to watch my 55 inch TV rather than my computer moniter and I prefer to have a nice DVD set rather than a bunch of burn-it-yourself discs in generic cases. I only download the DW eps. because it takes to frikkin' long for Scifi to play the show over here. Otherwise, the internet spoilers would make it difficult to participate in discussion forums.

 

[Kelthaz]

I would expect that tonight's Doctor Who Easter Special will be shortly available for illegal download. Should I download it or shouldn't I? When is it going to be broadcast in the US? When will it be available on DVD? No one actually knows. So since it won't be commercially available here in the near future, I'm probably going to download it. Rest assured, when I decide to download, I commit myself to purchase the DVD when it becomes available in the US.

I downloaded Doctor Who, but I am not buying the DVD set. If it was available on TV I would happily watch it (unless I missed it), but I don't enjoy Doctor Who enough to want to rewatch it multiple times. I only buy DVD sets of shows I will rewatch, otherwise I won't spend my money.

I also download plenty of fansubbed anime. I refuse to watch butchered versions of great anime (poor One Piece) or wait ten years for the good versions to catch up with the Japanese releases. Code Geass is the only excellent official English release I have ever seen of an anime, and I might buy the DVDs for that reason alone. Assuming they aren't $100 for three episodes.

 

[zakkrusz]

Well, the only reason I'd ever download something is if I can't buy it so I wouldn't call it stealing. I prefer to call it borrowing or renting because I usually end up buying what I watch afterward if it becomes available. If I wanted to see it and could buy it, I would, absolutely.

If I downloaded it, it's because it's from another country where I don't have the equipment to play other regions' discs or because I can't understand the language without a translation. When a domestic distributor picks up the series then I can buy it, and do. My DVD collection is massive because of me buying shows I've DLed and then bought because I liked them actually. There are also some really fantastic series out there that may never see a domestic release though and if I didn't download them I would never be able to see them and that would be a shame. You just never know what will and what won't get picked up here.

I would never download a domestic movie or any form of music though. CD's are not region coded so I just import them, and all domestic movies eventually come out on DVD or to theaters so there's no point in pirating them since I can buy them. I would also not download a series I could buy even it was expensive. There's always a sale somewhere to take advantage of. For instance most of Farscape is out out of print and expensive but taking advantage of a sale I picked up the first 2 seasons for a lot cheaper (although the sale ended so I'll probabally be buying seasons 3 and 4 and regular price.).

 

[Bob The Skutter]

If I own a store-bought cassette from ages ago and have the gear to record the songs in MP3 format on my computer so I can make my own CDs, am I again running afoul of the law?

Some asshole music label sued someone for transferring his 2,000 plus CD collection to his computer, all of which were bought legally.

Of course this is the same assholes who said if you listened to the radio you were stealing because you didn't buy or rent the rights to listen to the music.

Where did you get your information?

While I don't think it ever actually happened, it is true that there was a Sony music exec who wanted to sue people for ripping their own music collection, he said people should buy legal downloads of their entire collection again if they wanted them on your MP3 player. And had previously said that listening to music on the radio was theft if you never bought any music.

 

[Rii]

In retrospect it might've been better if Red Book had incorporated DRM from the outset. Then we would've had the clash between bullshit laws like the DMCA and common sense a while back, on territory that regular folk are actually familiar and engaged with.

 

[Chess Piece Face]

It is stealing. The thing is, if cd's didn't cost 9.99-17.99 for 12 songs - nobody would do it.

Ever since iTunes, with the 99 cent pricing, I haven't illegally downloaded any music...I have purchased it...and I STILL think 9.99 for a whole disc is too expensive.

Same thing with movies - if they were priced reasonably...that is, if they were priced what they were actually worth - ie like 3 bucks, nobody would download.

And I don't consider downloading tv shows stealing when I am paying for cable and netflix already.

 

[CommodoreKong]

I would expect that tonight's Doctor Who Easter Special will be shortly available for illegal download. Should I download it or shouldn't I? When is it going to be broadcast in the US? When will it be available on DVD? No one actually knows. So since it won't be commercially available here in the near future, I'm probably going to download it. Rest assured, when I decide to download, I commit myself to purchase the DVD when it becomes available in the US.

I downloaded Doctor Who, but I am not buying the DVD set. If it was available on TV I would happily watch it (unless I missed it), but I don't enjoy Doctor Who enough to want to rewatch it multiple times. I only buy DVD sets of shows I will rewatch, otherwise I won't spend my money.

I don't have a problem with that, unless you were a Nielsen family while Sci-Fi airs The Planet of the Dead no one would of ever made any money off of you. Downloading the episode is a wash.

 

[Maestro]

Yeah, if you're a Nielson household, then you'd better be rewatching everything you've downloaded when it airs in your area, unless it completely sucked.

 

[amdmiami]

Is it stealing? Sure.

But do I feel a pang of remore afterwards? No. When I was little, I once stole money from my mom's purse, but I felt so bad afterwards that I ended up putting it back and from that day on have never "stolen" again.

Now, I never download movies but I do download music. Why?
1) I have no compassion for record studios/execs
2) I only have the music for myself
3) I can't afford to buy every song I like for $1 on Itunes!

I'm sure everyone here has at least downloaded a couple of songs on various programs that I can't mention. Come on, let's keep it real around here!

 

[Amaris]

Is it stealing? Sure.

But do I feel a pang of remore afterwards? No. When I was little, I once stole money from my mom's purse, but I felt so bad afterwards that I ended up putting it back and from that day on have never "stolen" again.

Now, I never download movies but I do download music. Why?
1) I have no compassion for record studios/execs

They're not the only ones affected. Plus, every time you do this download, you give them more ammo to pass senseless laws that the rest of us have to pay for.

2) I only have the music for myself

If I steal a book and keep it only for myself, does that make it right?

3) I can't afford to buy every song I like for $1 on Itunes!

I can't afford CDs at the store. Should I steal them? I'll keep them for myself.
Honestly. I keep hearing this excuse "I can't afford them". Well guess what? Wait until you can.
You're stealing. It is theft.

I'm sure everyone here has at least downloaded a couple of songs on various programs that I can't mention. Come on, let's keep it real around here!

No I don't because it is stealing, and I don't steal.

J.

 

[J.T.B.]

Now, I never download movies but I do download music. Why?
1) I have no compassion for record studios/execs

What does compassion or lack thereof have to do with whether something is right or wrong?

2) I only have the music for myself

You've obtained something illegally but keep it only for yourself. How does that mitigate the illegal act?

3) I can't afford to buy every song I like for $1 on Itunes!

How is that different from anything else you can't afford?

I'm sure everyone here has at least downloaded a couple of songs on various programs that I can't mention. Come on, let's keep it real around here!

No, never have. Some people don't do things that are ethically wrong, regardless of the harm it causes or the threat of punishment. This is not unusual, in fact it used to be the norm. I'm not sure if it is now, though.

--Justin

 

[Jadzia]

I'll look at this from an ethical perspective.


On one hand -- From the author's point of view... If you made an effort making something, intending to make a profit on it, would you want people downloading it for free and robbing you of your profit? Definitely no. The uploaders and downloaders are equally guilty of robbing you.


On the other hand -- From the downloaders point of view... Would you have bought it if you hadn't been able to download it for free. If the answer is definitely "no", then there is no loss of profit to the author by downloading it. Perhaps in that situation it is more forgivable, but it's a grey area as to whether it's ethical or not, depending on what the user gets out of it, or the relative wealth of author vs user.

 

[J.T.B.]

On the other hand -- From the downloaders point of view... Would you have bought it if you hadn't been able to download it for free. If the answer is definitely "no", then there is no loss of profit to the author by downloading it. Perhaps in that situation it is more forgivable, but it's a grey area as to whether it's ethical or not, depending on what the user gets out of it, or the relative wealth of author vs user.

I don't think it is an ethical gray area at all. If you use the item you obtained, listen to the MP3 for instance, you have the consumer value of that item. If you gave nothing in return, it is unethical. If you obtained it unlawfully, it is unethical.

There are any number of books and musical works I would not buy, that implies that I do not find they have sufficient value for what it would cost me. But if I obtain one it implies it has value to me, otherwise why would I bother? There should be a transaction between the consumer and the producer to transfer that value, and unless the consumer can haggle directly with the producer, the consumer has to pay the price the producer sets. Whether someone would have paid for the item if it wasn't free is beside the point: The value has been transferred, but the transaction has been only one-way.

--Justin