How internationally appealing is/was star trek ?

[at Quark's]

Just wondering about this ...

Ultimately, Star trek is an American TV show of course, and that would show in a lot of stuff, perhaps down to inocuous details such as in haircuts that are chosen for characters, etc. But perhaps also in story telling elements, as to what is considered 'heroic' or 'good' and what is not, when it would be good to take initiative and defy Starfleet rules, and when to just follow them, etc.

So I was wondering, how do people of different cultures watch star trek ? Would Pakistani, or Chinese, or Afrikan viewers see and appreciate it in generally the same way American viewers would ? (Of course, everyone is different and notices different things, but I'm talking about culturally implied differences of perception). Would they, for instance, condemn a character for his/her action in some cases where Americans would generally praise him, or the other way around?

I myself am West European, so while I grew up in a Western culture, I probably too would see some things a little differently from the 'average' American viewer, even though I would have trouble pointing out exactly what those differences are (as I've never been American). The only example that comes to mind right now is that I've always had just a little difficulty stomaching Kirk as he (sometimes) seems just a tad too 'American' for me (I don't want to insult anybody here), but then again, that could also be because the show was made in the sixties and hence probably reflects some of the tastes of that time ...

 

[Melakon]

Shatner once told a story about being in some foreign country during the 70s, I don't remember where, but it was some place remote. The shopkeeper squinted at him and asked "Captain Kirk?" Star Trek was playing on a small tv in a back room. So its influence was reaching areas Shatner hadn't expected.

 

[BeatleJWOL]

I've always had just a little difficulty stomaching Kirk as he (sometimes) seems just a tad too 'American' for me (I don't want to insult anybody here), but then again, that could also be because the show was made in the sixties and hence probably reflects some of the tastes of that time ...

You're pretty spot on as to why, here. Just like Roddenberry made the not-altogether-inaccurate comparison of Trek to a Western like "Wagon Train To The Stars", so too is Shatner's Kirk a cowboy-ish, John-Wayne-like hero type, tempered only slightly by the show's attempts at being progressive. I can definitely see why he might read like an American stereotype in some ways (ironic, considering the actor's birthplace!)

 

[Horizons96]

I remember seeing the Trek fans from across Serbia interviewed in the documentary Trekkies 2. They remarked how looking up to the ideals and concepts in Trek had helped them through some of the dark times of their country.

Thinking about that always really amazed and inspired me.

 

[Kilana2]

Here in Germany ST is big. And they organize the FedCon every year. This year it appears to be very Voyager centered with "Tuvok", "Icheb" and "Seven".

 

[WillsBabe]

I remember being at a con back in the 80s in the UK. There was a discussion panel with some American fans. We were discussing favourite episodes. I remember that a lot of the episodes that the British fans considered to be classics were not necessarily the ones the American fans chose. It was quite a revelation. So maybe that says something about the way different cultures see the show.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

I remember one sketch on the Daily Show from like ten years ago where they showed a cut from an Arabic show where the graphics were George W Bush with Ferengi ears.

 

[eyeresist]

Considering Trek from an Australian perspective, there are certain unexamined cultural assumptions that come from being an American show. The idea of the Federation being a massive military and cultural force with a reach far beyond its borders is an American parallel. I can kind of see why Firefly was unsuccessful in the US, as unlike Trek it's very "un-American" in its viewpoint - instead of being powerful and confrontational, the Firefly crew dodge conflict and stay under the radar. It is neat when Trek questions its assumptions, as rare as that may be, most notably in DS9 (comments from the Ferenghi), but also the comment in TUC about the Fed being a "homo sapiens-only club".

 

[at Quark's]

Considering Trek from an Australian perspective, there are certain unexamined cultural assumptions that come from being an American show. The idea of the Federation being a massive military and cultural force with a reach far beyond its borders is an American parallel. I can kind of see why Firefly was unsuccessful in the US, as unlike Trek it's very "un-American" in its viewpoint - instead of being powerful and confrontational, the Firefly crew dodge conflict and stay under the radar. It is neat when Trek questions its assumptions, as rare as that may be, most notably in DS9 (comments from the Ferenghi), but also the comment in TUC about the Fed being a "homo sapiens-only club".

Hmmm... there have been two series with at least a premise that could have encouraged more of a 'subdued' approach, voyager and enterprise.

Voyager: in the delta quadrant, often with superior technology but still alone. Should realistically have stayed 'under the radar' as much as possible. A few quick, discreet trades here and there, and then travel to the next sector of space as quickly as possible.

Enterprise: the very best Earth Starfleet technology could offer at the time, but still significantly inferior to most of the other ships out there - at least in the beginning of the series. I did like that 'underdog' position for a change, and I found it almost a pity that after a year and a half or so, they seemed quite up to par with most aliens they met.

Still, both crews were quite 'confrontational' when their ideals were violated in some way. Would that have been any different, had these shows been made by another country?

 

[T'Girl]

instead of being powerful and confrontational, the Firefly crew dodge conflict and stay under the radar

What soured the show for me was that many of the main characters were criminals.

 

[Greg Cox]

Interesting topic. For what it's worth, I've seen Italian and German translations of my STAR TREK novels, and once visited a Star Trek-themed pub in London. Whether different countries get different things out of Trek is an intriguing question.

 

[Kilana2]

Several weeks ago Dr. Hubert Zitt gave a lecture about theory of relativity and time travel (Star Trek and Back to the Future) at the local University. The auditorium was crowded with students, non-students, german students, chinese studens and so on. The lecture was mesmerizing, but there was hardly time to contact the lecturer because the session finished late in the evening.

 

[Orphalesion]

Okay, I can bring Australian and German perspectives. It's popular in both countries. In Australia we love ourselves some country/western tropes too after all (well not me personally, but Australians in general). I am always surprised at how huge it is/was in Germany However, even my German grandmother loved to see "den Captain Kirk" on TV, also apparently TOS was known as "Raumschiff Enterprise" (Starship Enterprise) and instead of "Bones" McCoy's nickname is "Dr.Pille" (Dr. Pill) I sadly don't know if that has a similar cultural meaning. TNG however was known as "Star Trek: Das Naechste Jahrhundert" (Star Trek: The Next Century). Last year I did a prac at a German school and one of the permanent teachers there was a real Trekkie ever since he saw TNG as a kid on German TV. His favorite character was Riker and apparently Troi is not looked upon with the same disdain by German fans as she often gets from Americans/Aussies because he was surprised that people dislike her.

Also there is a hilarious German comedy mive called "Traumschiff Suprise" (Dreamship Surpirse) that parodies TOS:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBhaXQ3UaDo

Translation: Because we're so beautiful and sexy and fit and trim, we'll be "Miss Waikiki". (the rest is in English)

Apparently Michael Dorn had a cameo in the movie as an FBI agent.

 

[Kilana2]

1995 I had the chance to visit my relatives in New York and California. There I got to watch Voyager for the first time and it was completely new to me. I grew up with TOS and TNG. One TNG episode I remember vividly is Conspiracy. The german youth protection cut out Remmicks killing scene. Almost a whole minute is missing. But they forgot to remove it in a later episode, one of Riker´s dreaming sequences.

 

[alpha_leonis]

Several stories consolidated into one post here:

1. I was a college student at the end of the initial run of TNG. Two of my best friends during my Freshman year were exchange students -- one German, one Japanese. The German woman was absolutely obsessed with Star Trek. I remember watching a rerun of "Second Chances" with her (it was her first time seeing it), and her reactions to the episode (especially the big reveal when Thomas Riker appears on the planetside station for the first time) were about the most enthusiastic I've ever seen from any fan I've ever met.

The Japanese friend, by contrast, had never heard of Star Trek -- didn't care for it very much (but she wasn't much of a sci-fi fan in general.) When I actually went to live in Japan several years later, I barely saw Star Trek anywhere. The best I could find were Deep Space Nine reruns from about the first or second season, which were broadcast on an obscure channel on late-night TV. (By this time "back home" in the US, DS9 was airing its sixth or seventh season.)


2. One of the biggest Star Trek fans in the world is King Abdullah of Jordan. Back in the mid-90s when he was still Prince Abdullah, during a visit to the United States, his advisory staff arranged a cameo appearance on Voyager as a surprise to him. The only caveat was that he could not have any speaking lines during his scene, since he wasn't a member of the Screen Actors' Guild. (He's shown in the Voyager corridor, ending a conversation with Harry Kim and walking off before Kim goes on to act in the rest of the scene.)

His Trek appreciation is still strong enough that one of his pet projects as King has been to include a Star Trek area within a major theme park that has been built to promote Jordanian tourism.


3. Stephen Hawking has been a well-known Trek fan, even before his cameo appearance on TNG. The famous story I've heard is that when he arrived on set in California, he was given a personal tour by Rick Berman. When they got to the Engineering set, Hawking said, "I'm working on that."

Incidentally, I've always wondered why it was that Professor Hawking could have several speaking lines during his TNG cameo, but Prince Abdullah couldn't. Did the producers spring for SAG membership on Hawking's behalf, when they couldn't/wouldn't do the same for Jordanian royalty?

My best guess is that SAG rules make an exception for a case like Hawking's where he was playing himself. Or (less likely), they made a "wink-nudge" arrangement that said Hawking wasn't literally speaking by strict definition -- he was only using a prop that spoke.

 

[Haytil]

I remember one sketch on the Daily Show from like ten years ago where they showed a cut from an Arabic show where the graphics were George W Bush with Ferengi ears.

I vividly remember that report, and sometimes go looking for a copy on-line, but can never find it.

It was actually from the Iraqi News Service. Prior the invasion, when the Bush Administration was spouting rhetoric about Saddam's WMDs, this was one of their internal propaganda responses.

I thought it was pretty funny.

Incidentally, I've always wondered why it was that Professor Hawking could have several speaking lines during his TNG cameo, but Prince Abdullah couldn't. Did the producers spring for SAG membership on Hawking's behalf, when they couldn't/wouldn't do the same for Jordanian royalty?

My best guess is that SAG rules make an exception for a case like Hawking's where he was playing himself. Or (less likely), they made a "wink-nudge" arrangement that said Hawking wasn't literally speaking by strict definition -- he was only using a prop that spoke.

It might have had something to do with the fact that Hawking had on-screen guest star credits, and Abdullah was an extra? Maybe the rules are different for extras.

 

[at Quark's]

I was inspired to this thread because of a 'dilemma' story I heard years ago in the context of some workshop.

"A man and three close relatives (his mother, his spouse and his newborn child) are in a small boat on a lake. Suddenly it begins to storm violently and before they can reach land, the boat makes water and sinks.

They'll still have to swim some distance to the shore. Unfortunately, only the man can swim, so he'll have to rescue his relatives. He realises though that he can help only one person at a time... most probably, by the time he returns to the spot where the other two were left behind, they will be drowned. Which one should he rescue (first)? "

It seems this question was asked in many countries in a survey. In western countries, people tended to answer 'the newborn child' or 'the spouse'. Reasons given were mostly along the lines of 'the child has its entire life before it, the spouse and the mother have fewer years of life left', or 'the spouse, as she is the one he chose to spend his life with'. In Islamic countries however, people mostly said 'the mother'. When asked for their motivation, the answer was : 'horrible as it would be, you can find a new spouse and have children with her, but you never can find a new mother'.

While you can agree or disagree with that line of reasoning, I think that in itself, it's a logical and valid argument.

I'm never checked if such a survey actually took place or if this is just an urban legend. However, the story got me thinking. As different cultures can seemingly resolve such dilemmas in different ways, I became curious as to how that would influence the perceptions on stories like trek is telling them, stories in which our heroes often face ethical dilemmas of some kind. Are there trek stories where the 'good' decision according to viewers would be a different one, depending on the country where it is viewed, or even where the perspective from which the story is told, doesn't really mesh with the sensibilities of the local people ?

 

[alpha_leonis]

I'm never checked if such a survey actually took place or if this is just an urban legend. However, the story got me thinking. As different cultures can seemingly resolve such dilemmas in different ways, I became curious as to how that would influence the perceptions on stories like trek is telling them, stories in which our heroes often face ethical dilemmas of some kind. Are there trek stories where the 'good' decision according to viewers would be a different one, depending on the country where it is viewed, or even where the perspective from which the story is told, doesn't really mesh with the sensibilities of the local people ?

That's a very good question. All of a sudden, I wonder how an episode like "City on the Edge of Forever" would play in Germany. The entire premise is that Kirk had to let his love interest die, because the love interest would eventually keep us out of war with the Nazis, who would then overrun the world. (I believe, based on the few German people that I've met, that they would respond the same as an American audience, since modern Germans are as strongly opposed to their Nazi past as we Americans are.)

Or even more confrontational: "Patterns of Force". I understand that episode was actually banned in Germany for several decades because of the specific Nazi references.

 

[Kilana2]

I´ve heard that it was banned. But there is also that Voyager Episode (Killing Game) with Nazi References. And it is shown. It´s part of the history now. And approximate 30 years later.
But I have my difficulties with the few "german" characters actually working with Starfleet being described as blond, tall and with blue eyes. Only few Germans look like that. Stereotypes still exist.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

instead of being powerful and confrontational, the Firefly crew dodge conflict and stay under the radar

What soured the show for me was that many of the main characters were criminals.

What soured the show for me was the writing was good for some amusing one liners but was otherwise cheesy.