How important is the shuttle?

[KJbushway]

We see constantly in Star Trek were a ship is damaged in some way and the enemy is near. I know its just a show and they didn't get into that much detail, but how come none of the captain's really ever used the shuttle to it full potential?

We see when the ship's weapons are damaged and shields are weak. How come the captain didn't say go to the shuttles and fire at the enemy? Even in Nemesis, he could have sent out advanced shuttles or his Captain shuttle, which has good shields and weapons.

How come when the captains find that they don't have any power and need it, they don't just take power from the shuttles? Most have energy cores, some even go to warp.

 

[C.E. Evans]

We see constantly in Star Trek were a ship is damaged in some way and the enemy is near. I know its just a show and they didn't get into that much detail, but how come none of the captain's really ever used the shuttle to it full potential?

We see when the ship's weapons are damaged and shields are weak. How come the captain didn't say go to the shuttles and fire at the enemy? Even in Nemesis, he could have sent out advanced shuttles or his Captain shuttle, which has good shields and weapons.

Unless you're squaring off with the Borg or a less technologically-advanced/tactics sophisticated race, most enemies can detect when you're about to launch shuttles and target them (ala the Narada in Star Trek XI). A really good enemy commander might decide to frag the entire shuttlebay the moment the doors open, IMO...

As far as the Captain's Yacht, its shields and weapons may be no better than that of a runabout for all we know.

How come when the captains find that they don't have any power and need it, they don't just take power from the shuttles? Most have energy cores, some even go to warp.

It's kind of like asking why can't aircraft carriers be powered by the fighters they carry...

 

[Captain Rob]

You mean like in Die Hard 2 after the bad guys take out the airport's radio system some dufus says something like "You can't just go to Radio Shack and get a transmitter." But they could have used the radios on any of a hundred or so aircraft that were parked on the ground and easily available. I think it's called "plot contrivance".
In NEM, after the transporter went down, I would have liked them to have seen them remotely pilot the Argo shuttle into position and beam Data and Picard back to the Enterprise off of the Scimitar before it exploded. Thus keeping one of the main characters from being killed. Oh well. I guess they figured it was okay since they had a spare Data.

"It's kind of like asking why can't aircraft carriers be powered by the fighters they carry... "

I bet if you had a real-life warp-capable shuttle or runabout that you could power the lights and AC of a Nimitz-class carrier off of it. but a starship might be a little more difficult. Maybe just emergency lights only. Or shelter areas only.

 

[C.E. Evans]

"It's kind of like asking why can't aircraft carriers be powered by the fighters they carry... "

I bet if you had a real-life warp-capable shuttle or runabout that you could power the lights and AC of a Nimitz-class carrier off of it.

Assuming that a Nimitz-class carrier can use warp plasma.

Energy compatibility aside, there's also the issue that some systems have different input/output ratings. One system may draw more power from another than it can generate, while another may be overloaded from power it takes from another, IMO...

 

[KJbushway]

What I was thinking, Captain Rob.
No the Captain's shuttle is way beyond standard shuttles. It has warp drive, two phasers front, two back. Forward and aft torpoedo bays. Meduim shield generator.

 

[C.E. Evans]

The Captain's yacht was never used on TNG, but the TNG Tech Manual describes the one aboard the Enterprise-D as being a vessel purely for ceremonial purposes.

Now, the Voyager had an aeroshuttle that was supposedly warp-capable and equipped with lower-grade phasers and microtorpedo tubes like a runabout, but it wasn't a captain's shuttle but an atmospheric support vehicle.

 

[Satyrquaze]

You mean like in Die Hard 2 after the bad guys take out the airport's radio system some dufus says something like "You can't just go to Radio Shack and get a transmitter." But they could have used the radios on any of a hundred or so aircraft that were parked on the ground and easily available. I think it's called "plot contrivance".
In NEM, after the transporter went down, I would have liked them to have seen them remotely pilot the Argo shuttle into position and beam Data and Picard back to the Enterprise off of the Scimitar before it exploded. Thus keeping one of the main characters from being killed. Oh well. I guess they figured it was okay since they had a spare Data.

Speaking of "plot contrivance" Brent Spiner co-wrote NEM and explicitly wanted to kill off Data.

 

[Timo]

The phasers of a shuttlecraft, or any other small craft for that matter, have never been shown doing much good against the shields of a full starship.

The Captain's Yacht from the E-E is no exception: its phasers were never shown doing damage. Its torpedoes were an annoyance to the Son'a, nothing more. Facing a properly shielded enemy, a captain would probably do better if he sent all his shuttle pilots to assist the repair crews in getting even one of the ship's own phaser banks working again...

However, the shuttles would certainly have solved the problem of stopping Shinzon and getting out alive, one way or another. Their transporters might have been inoperable just like those of the mothership - the real reason might have been that it's nearly impossible to target them in that soupy nebula, and once the main transporter targeting systems of the E-E were gone, no shuttlecraft system could hope to operate. But that wouldn't stop Picard from launching a shuttlecraft and just plain flying it in through the same window he used for flying out a few hours earlier!

Timo Saloniemi

 

[SchwEnt]

Slightly OT, about powering an aircraft carrier...

Reminds me of a story from the late 30s, when the carrier Saratoga was based West Coast. There was a massive power outage around SeaTac and the Saratoga was used to essentially power the city (in a limited manner).
Cool that even pre-nuclear era, carriers had tremendous power capability.

Anyway, back to the subject at hand...

 

[KJbushway]

wow.

 

[drazzz52923849]

If you asked Cap'n Archer, he would probably say the shuttle is the most important part of the ship.

 

[Robert DeSoto]

shuttles are are for shuttling ppl from A to B. Their weapons (if any) are no match for the shields of a full sized starship.

Runabouts have a better chance given its heavier firepower, but even then, they are not generally used in combat situations either. I'm sure a Starfleet science ship could blast it to pieces.

 

[Galileo7]

shuttles are are for shuttling ppl from A to B. Their weapons (if any) are no match for the shields of a full sized starship.

Runabouts have a better chance given its heavier firepower, but even then, they are not generally used in combat situations either. I'm sure a Starfleet science ship could blast it to pieces.

Good points, also if the transporters are not functioning for away missions, the shuttlecrafts are vital....TOS "Enemy Within", ST V FF.

 

[Captain Rob]

My last bit on aircraft carriers (I'm a fanatic). They're the closest real-life equivalent to a starship. As for power; Wiki says that the Nimitz-class has a power output in the 194 MW range with two reactors. The real Enterprise has eight reactors and is probably higher. She's grossly overpowered and can't go full out without risking hull damage. I would assume that any warp-capable shuttle has a power system in the high MegaWatt low GigaWatt range (who knows).
"Assuming that a Nimitz-class carrier can use warp plasma."
They have these things called power converters.
I'm sure that all of the little over head lights on those shuttles run on regular low-voltage electricity. I'm sure all of the shuttles could be used as emergency backup power for lights and life support. I would assume that all starships have emergency power in the form of small portable fusion power generators for each compartment. The likelyhood of needing a shuttle for power would be almost zero.
As for weapons and fighting, I would assume the bigger the shuttle the bigger the weapons. Especially if combat was a design requirement, such as the Delta Flyer. Since the Enterprise-E has a more combat oriented design then i assume that her shuttles are also better armed. Such as the Argo. That's a big shuttle. I'd put a Warthog from Halo in the back though.
I once saw the Enterprise (carrier) back in 1980 up at the Bremerton, Wa navy yard drydock. She was in for her modification and life-extension program. That's when they got rid of the stupid box island with the dome of antennas on top. I didn't think it was her until I pulled out my binoculars and saw "USS Enterprise" on the fantail. I would have loved to have used Chekov's line about "nuclear wessels" and the Enterprise.

 

[Galileo7]

good analysis

 

[C.E. Evans]

"Assuming that a Nimitz-class carrier can use warp plasma."
They have these things called power converters.

Which would mean nothing if they're not rated or designed to handle warp plasma.

 

[M'Sharak]

How come the captain didn't say go to the shuttles and fire at the enemy?

Other than the Danube-class runabouts, how many shuttles were so equipped that they could fire at the enemy?

 

[Captain Rob]

"Assuming that a Nimitz-class carrier can use warp plasma."
They have these things called power converters.

Which would mean nothing if they're not rated or designed to handle warp plasma.

New for Christmas at Home Depot:

"Starfleet warp plasma to US Navy warship AC-DC power system power converter. Just $999.99 while fictitious supplies last."

 

[Timo]

Other than the Danube-class runabouts, how many shuttles were so equipped that they could fire at the enemy?

We never saw the rounded Type 7 from TNG fire phasers or torpedoes, and there were no obvious emitter strips or muzzles on her. Doesn't mean the type couldn't be turned into a gunship when needed, though (as the TNG Tech Manual suggests that there could be phasers aboard after all, at least occasionally).

The angular Type 6, the one built as a full mockup for TNG, didn't sport any phaser strips, either. And I don't think we ever saw it fire phasers in TNG or VOY. Again, the TNG Tech Manual suggests phasers could be installed as needed.

The Type 8 that looks like modernized Type 6 in VOY was equipped with actual phaser strips, and was seen using them on occasion. The Type 12 that had the long bow and sloping stern had explicit strips, too, and did use them, for example when blowing up that 18-wheel rig in "Future's End". (It also had a small deflector dish.) Their opponents always were puny and primitive, though.

The Defiant carried two types of shuttle; the first, represented by a physical miniature, had what looked like three pairs of phaser ball turrets on the "skirt" cowlings around the main cabin, but we never saw those fire anything. The second, the CGI from "The Sound of Her Voice", had some strips but never fired them.

All the TNG movie shuttles have had some serious strippage, most of their strips being at least four times as long as those of the VOY shuttles. The Captain's Yacht also had a forward-firing torpedo launcher, although apparently not for full-sized torpedoes. Whether the others were capable of firing (mini- or micro-)torpedoes, or merely emitting tetryon pulses from a tractor beam or whatever, was never solidly established.

None of the TOS or TOS movie shuttles carried identifiable armaments, but the Vulcan warp sled did have ball turrets under the bow and atop the cabin. No obvious armament was seen on the STXI shuttles, either.

The ENT shuttlepods were equipped with guns that fired purplish bolts - whether plasma or phased-whatever, we never really learned. These were only good for ground strafing and the like.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Deks]

I think we know the ENT shuttles are armed with plasma cannons (at least in the early seasons).
From Season 3 onward, we saw them fire actual beams like the ship (it's entirely possible they received an upgrade just like the NX-01 did before going to the Expanse).

As for shuttles...
All of Voyager's were to my knowledge Warp capable.
The Type 6 was used earlier on, with the Type 12 later on.
Janeway even mentioned on one occasion (the Void episode in Season 7) how they could use shuttles warp cores to augment power on Voyager.
So they COULD be used in such a capacity.

As for how much damage shuttles weapons/shields can make/receive... that's variable to say the least.
We have seen shuttles taking on larger ships and doing considerable damage, although this was mostly after the vessel in question already sustained some prior damage.

Examples are Voyager episodes: Basics (Tom's Type 12 shuttle managed to pound on Voyager from inside a nebula and the Talaxians helped him out prior to that), Tsunkatse (when the Delta Flyer came in and assisted Voyager after the ship lost it's weapons and blew out the transmission relays) and there was 'Renaisance Man' episode in which both Type 12 and the Delta Flyer attack the former Hierarchy alien ship that had Voyager's Warp core, captain and the Doctor, inflicting moderate damage in the process.

Ah yes... there's another example, the Delta Flyer went after the Hologram's ship in the Y class planet's atmosphere whose shields were previously damaged in a battle with Voyager.

Shuttles can actually pose a serious threat to an already damaged vessel for example.
In numbers, they can probably take on a large ship.

The Delta Flyer for example was a very powerful shuttle for it's size.
Quite likely it easily surpassed the Runabouts in weapons/shields capabilities thanks in part to it's Borg inspired systems.

I would dare say even that about 6 Delta Flyers could pose a serious threat to a ship like Voyager.

And there was one more example in 'Timeless' episode where the Delta Flyer went up against a Galaxy class.
It had no effect on their shields, but then again, the shuttle was able to hold it's own for a time before being destroyed (plus, it WAS an alternate future where the Galaxy in question could have been sufficiently enhanced so it's shields would never really be affected by a shuttle, Borg inspired systems or not).