How has this movie changed Classic Trek history...?
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I suppose the intended humour didn't come through without a lol emoticon. I found the entire film thoroughly stupid, which I construe as offensive as a long time TOS fan.
True. Conversely it also doesn't mean accepting without question whatever is being peddled.
It would appear not.
While the movie wasn't terribly heavy on the science or speculation, I thought but Spock's character was very well written and acted throughout, enough to elevate it above being merely "stupid".
So, you thought that the Spock you knew from TOS would have carried on an illicit affair with a direct subordinate, someone who (even in the course of this MOVIE) used that relationship to get a special favor?It would appear not.
You found the new Trek movie offensive?
How?
While the movie wasn't terribly heavy on the science or speculation, I thought but Spock's character was very well written and acted throughout, enough to elevate it above being merely "stupid".
That's not the Spock I grew up with. And I don't consider that to be "well written." Ah, well...
Your first part of your complaint hinges on an irrelevant detail from an episode. The rest is a pretty exaggerated summary.So, you thought that the Spock you knew from TOS would have carried on an illicit affair with a direct subordinate, someone who (even in the course of this MOVIE) used that relationship to get a special favor?It would appear not.
While the movie wasn't terribly heavy on the science or speculation, I thought but Spock's character was very well written and acted throughout, enough to elevate it above being merely "stupid".
That's not the Spock I grew up with. And I don't consider that to be "well written." Ah, well...
Not a big deal.
The Spock I knew would've immediately begun calculations for a time warp the moment he found himself in the past and begun plans to fix the whole mess and restore the timeline.
The Spock I knew was perfectly aware of how old Kirk was when he assumed command of the Enterprise, since he was there at the time.
That this Spock did, or knew, neither of these things tells me that this is NOT our Spock, this is NOT our Trek universe, and is not worth my attention.
The Spock I knew was perfectly aware of how old Kirk was when he assumed command of the Enterprise, since he was there at the time.
That this Spock did, or knew, neither of these things tells me that this is NOT our Spock, this is NOT our Trek universe, and is not worth my attention.
Hardly irrelevant that a senior command officer would allow himself to be caught in such a gross violation of the chain of command, and a Vulcan would allow himself to be involved in something that is not only openly emotional (a violation of Vulcan cultural taboos that go back centuries) but ridiculously unprofessional.
- There was nothing to indicate that their relationship was an "illicit affair."
- Uhura didn't use her relationship with Spock to get a special favor. She should have been assigned to the Enterprise based on her academy performance. She simply refused to accept a lesser posting based on Spock's insecurities.
- We know very little about what our Spock was like at that stage of his life- though, we do know that he was much more emotional as a young officer than he would be when we got to know him in TOS. That, combined with this Spock having very different life experiences, makes direct comparisons to our Spock pretty useless.
Nor was it is the Spock I grew up with... that was made clear in the film.
XI has plenty of problems that are worthy of criticism, why fabricate new ones?
number6
Vice Admiral
Those aren't the only options nor are they mutually exclusive. One can also hate something without constantly reminding everyone how much. That is a waste of everyone's time and sanity.
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Considering the new movie is the only part of the franchise standing, if that eventually fails, then no part of the franchise will be standing.
1) You are assuming that Spock had the means and ability to do this.
2) He was trapped on an ice planet.
3) Plenty of damage was already done to the timeline when he arrived.
4) Did Spock even know when he arrived other than "the past"?
5) From Spock's point of view, the tech might not be there to travel back in time. I could be wrong, but it seemed hat the first few times when TOS went back in time, it was usually by accident and random chance.
6) Even if Spock could escape the planet, get a ship (somehow), travel back, and face Nero...then what? How is Spock going to stop him, especially since Nero had a "mega-weapon-ship".
The Spock I knew would know he's in a shit situation and it would be logically better to help those where he was at the moment then trying to mess some more with the timeline.
Again, this assumes that Spock knew the specific year and that when he met NuKirk, he knew what age he was. Could it be he made a mistake and assumed incorrectly? Spock has a good memory, but he is not a computer. He sees young Kirk and thinks "Hey, captain of the Enterprise!"
Yep...because that never happened before with senior command officers...
In any event, I found Spock hardly emotional when with Uhura. Even the kiss in the turbolit was very much w/o emotion. The only real emotion I saw Spock give in the movie towards Uhura was on the transporter room, but by that time, the experiences in the movie had already changed Spock to embrace his emotional side a bit more.
"My first part?" I only made "one part" there. And I was not in any way referring to any "episode." I was referring to this movie. And I'm referring to an action that, in today's service, will get an officer court-martialed. And which SHOULD get an officer court-martialed.
Even in civilian life, this sort of thing is illegal. Of course, out in the real world, if a business leader is screwing a subordinate and gives that subordinate special rights and privileges, that leader is subject to somewhat less serious repercussions. In the military, an officer who does that goes to prison. AS THAT OFFICER SHOULD.
The Abrams Spock character, in this movie, did two things which by should have gotten him, AT BEST, cashiered out of the service with a dishonorable discharge. The "attempted murder" of Kirk (are you seriously telling me that this ship didn't have a BRIG aboard, where Kirk could have been confined without sending him into a an environment where he would have died if it wasn't for the most improbably of all possible events?) and the blatant showing of favoritism for his little fuck-buddy when she didn't like her assignment... both of those are COURT-MARTIAL OFFENSES. And, by doing so, one of the other ships was either shorted in terms of personnel assignments, or someone else got "bumped" from the Enterprise... in either case, this very well might have led to, in part or in whole, the deaths of hundreds or thousands of people on the other ships... and who knows, maybe even prevented the saving of Vulcan?
There are REASONS that senior officers don't get to fraternize with their subordinates. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of Spock's libido.
He was her direct superior in the chain of command. By definition, that's "illicit." Both in terms of today's (well-reasoned and appropriate) military protocols, and in terms of the Star Trek universe as established in TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY, and ENT.
Oh, I see. So you actually think that servicemembers get to say "I'm sorry, I know I've been assigned to this job, but that's not what I want to do and I'm not going to... nyah-nyah-nyah!"
You need to enlist. Seriously. Hell, you need to move out of mom's basement and find out how accountability works in ANY real-world situation.
You SERIOUSLY think that anyone else who wasn't happy with their assignment could have done the same thing boink-buddy-Uhura did?
You think nobody else would have wanted a different assignment? You think that any service... any business... any CLUB for that matter... can work, AT ALL, if nobody has to accept anything other than the exact thing that they, personally, want to do that that exact moment?
"Hey, I think I ought to be President of the Planet, and I'm not going to accept anything less. GIVE IT TO ME NOW, OR I'LL SULK!"
Of course, that has absolutely ZIP to do with what my point was.
When I was a brand-spanking new lieutenant, I was a lot different than I am today. But that didn't matter... there were REGULATIONS, and there were PROTOCOLS, and I didn't get to choose which of those I'd follow and which I'd get to ignore. A few officers DID think that... and ended up getting into various degrees of trouble over it.
And none of them did anything REMOTELY as egregious as Spock did in this movie.
"Fabricate new ones?" I'm not "fabricating" anything. Kids these days... no idea whatsoever about what "responsibility" and "accountability" mean. This is one area where TOS was far superior... largely because most of the people who made that show had real-life experience, and the majority had real-life military experience.
I think you need to rewatch that scene.
Are you going to start playing Nerys Myk's petulant little game of harping every time I express an opinion you don't like or agree with?If I don't like something then that's my right and I also have every right to express it as much as anyone else has to express what they like or dislike?
Lots of others are expressing dissenting opinions of nuTrek so why aren't you and Myk harping on them? Have I got some sort of fucking target painted on me?
What is wrong with you people?
The Spock we knew would have, at the very least, destroyed his ship and taken the Narada with it rather than surrender the red matter and doom his home world.
It's only "illicit" if it's shown in the film to be in violation of Starfleet regulations. The fact that we see two such relationships would indicate that this isn't the case.
If you're trying to make the argument that Trek XI's Starfleet should have been modeled more closely on today's military, I agree with you.
Spock admitted that she should have been assigned to the Enterprise.
"Enlist? You guys must be way down on your recruitment quota."
I agree with this.
Well, let's see... Kirk is fired in a coffin-sized pod to an unknown (to him) destination.
Yes, he's told by computer-voiceover to "wait til help comes." Is that the bit you think I missed? If so... you're not really thinking things through.
With a sizable portion of nu-Starfleet blasted to bits, how long do YOU supposed he'd have been waiting for a rescue mission, even if everyone in the Federation knew where he'd been left?
Was there any indication that the only Starfleet personnel on the planet, Scott or Keenser, knew that he was there?
If the Enterprise was engaged and destroyed, would anyone have ever known he was there?
Do you suppose he would have been able to live out the rest of his life in the pod, if nobody ever came after him (which was an almost complete certainty, wasn't it?)
Still, Starfleet had some form of records on this planet, and as a result knew that there was a complete "Ice-planet version of 'The Phantom Menace's underwater monster scene'" on this planet. Spock clearly was aware of the sort of place he was dumping Kirk on, don't you think?
Oh, and while we're at it... how much "pursuit time" was LOST by dropping out of warp long enough to eject an escape pod? I'll even discount the idea that the ship would require time to accelerate and decelerate from "maximum warp." How many lives, potentially, could be lost by wasting several minutes, in a crisis situation?
So, who was paying attention and who wasn't again?
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