How does this sound as an infinite power source?

[Solarbaby]

I had an idea for a never ending power source. I don't pretend to understand physics the way I did at school. Even then I wasn't very good. I've probably watched far too much Stargate and Trek for this idea.

Imagine there's a proto universe like the one they found in DS9. I forget the episode. But the universe would expand and finally encompass our own universe. This universe has been contained somehow in a box and a time dilation device is used to stop the universe reaching the edges of the box. Then time is reversed and the universe is returned to near a big bang status- or whatever people believe the universe began from. Then time is returned to normal flow and the universe starts to grow. This is an endless loop. The power supplied from the universe is harnessed through the box.

I sort of remember that energy never disappears but it changes into another form of energy. So that means there's always the same of amount of energy in the universe at all times.

So if all I mentioned was theoretically possible; to contain the proto universe, and send it backwards in time- would it be possible to extract energy from it? Or would that energy be gone forever?

Using the time dilation device to reverse time would return the proto universe to exactly how it was with the same amount of energy? Or because the energy had been extracted in it's future would this energy not be present in the time when the proto universe formed?

My head hurts I'm so tired, but I jsut remembered this idea and wanted to get people's opinions on this idea.

 

[David cgc]

If you're harnessing power through the container, then that energy won't be in the universe in the container anymore, so the universe-in-a-box will gradually move towards an inert state.

 

[Christopher]

I sort of remember that energy never disappears but it changes into another form of energy. So that means there's always the same of amount of energy in the universe at all times.

Always the same amount in any closed system. If the universe is connected to another universe, then each universe is open; the closed system where energy is conserved consists of the two universes together. Energy can be transferred from one universe to the other. But that is not an infinite energy source, for, just like any other energy transfer, the two universes will eventually equalize and the flow will stop.

Using the time dilation device to reverse time would return the proto universe to exactly how it was with the same amount of energy?

Time dilation does not reverse time. To dilate something is to stretch or expand it, like when your pupils dilate in dim light. Time dilation refers to stretching out the duration of events, i.e. slowing time down relative to an outside observer. There is no reversal involved.

In the abstract, though, it's an interesting question you pose. A physical process is time-reversible if its processes are just as physically valid in reverse as forward -- or, for our purposes, if it can be brought back to the same state it was in at an earlier time. A non-closed universe would lose energy or information, and thus could not be time-reversed back to an earlier state; this is related to the idea of the "black hole arrow of time." So no, I'd have to say that if the proto-universe is having energy siphoned out into another universe, it couldn't then be reverted to its original state, unless that energy were transferred back. So it definitely couldn't work as an endless energy source (even if we disregard the energy that would need to be expended to operate the devices in question).

 

[Forbin]

If we could only harness the disdain my dog seems to have for me, we could supply the US power grid for a generation.

 

[SicOne]

I remain firmly convinced that inside the fusion reactor spheres, there are gigantic hamster cages attached to flywheels and being propelled by dozens of five-year-olds...

 

[SicOne]

And a couple hundred of them in the warp core.

And the swirling colors in the warp core are actually the powder in PixiStix floating around.

 

[publiusr]

I've often thought of a dark energy extractor used for galactic engineering projects. Not only does it give you lots of power, but the more you use, the slower the universe's expansion into a lifeless void trillions of years for now.

As it stands, it will seem the supergalaxy our local group is destined to join will seem alone, with the rest of the universe moving beyond our light horizon as everything grows dark.

I wouldn't want to sap a baby universe itself, since that would exhaust many possibilities of existence.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

If you had a time dilation device that could do all that, why not just install it on an ordinary gas tank, run a normal generator until it runs out of gas, then use the time machine to refill the tank?

 

[Solarbaby]

If you had a time dilation device that could do all that, why not just install it on an ordinary gas tank, run a normal generator until it runs out of gas, then use the time machine to refill the tank?

Because it would probably take a whole lot more energy to operate the dilation device

 

[Unicron]

If we could only harness the disdain my dog seems to have for me, we could supply the US power grid for a generation.

Have you considered a cat instead, or would that only be some order of magnitude worse?

 

[Kaziarl]

Or a cat with with buttered toast (butter away from the Feline Component of course) attached, and magnates attached to the cats feet within a copper coil?

 

[YARN]

If you had a time dilation device that could do all that, why not just install it on an ordinary gas tank, run a normal generator until it runs out of gas, then use the time machine to refill the tank?

Yep, time-travel alone gets you as much energy as you could want.

If I travel back in time 5 minutes, now I have two versions of myself. If I happened to have a battery in my pocket, I now have two batteries.

 

[Solarbaby]

I suppose if it were possible- and the Trek PTB have made it possible many times- that you could use the time dilation device to travel back and then make a change in the time line, ever so slightly so that it creates an alternate timeline. The energy could be extracted from that timelines universe. Then create another timeline and so on?!?!

 

[Christopher]

One more time: "dilation" means slowing time, not reversing it! You cannot reverse time by dilating it, any more than you can make your car go backward by hitting the brakes. If you want to postulate a machine that goes back in time, pick a different name.

 

[Solarbaby]

I know what it means but I've seen the concept used in reverse in lots of sci fi shows- most notably Stargate SG1.

 

[Christopher]

That's still a misuse of the term. "Dilation" just means "stretching" or "widening." That's its precise, literal meaning. If time goes slower, it is dilated. If time goes faster, it is contracted. If time goes backward, it is reversed.

 

[Solarbaby]

Hmmm well I blame Samantha Carter and the Asgard for the bad english lol

 

[Crazy Eddie]

If you had a time dilation device that could do all that, why not just install it on an ordinary gas tank, run a normal generator until it runs out of gas, then use the time machine to refill the tank?

Because it would probably take a whole lot more energy to operate the dilation device

And that fails to negate your original setup how?

I know what it means but I've seen the concept used in reverse in lots of sci fi shows- most notably Stargate SG1.

That's because Stargate SG1 is a hackneyed, unoriginal, garbage production that makes "Armageddon" look like Oscar material.

 

[TiberiusMaximus]

^True, Carter was able to alter an Asgard time-dilation device to travel back in time, but that was with an INCREDIBLE amount of power, namely all the energy in an Ori Beam of Death, and it took her ages to figure it out. And the Replicators were able to 'reverse' a time dilation field in another way, making time travel FASTER inside.
It would be better just to call it a time altering device.

As for the concept, it is quite interesting...although if you've taken the energy out of the protoverse, then reverting it back doesn't make sense to me. You already have the energy and that energy would be one of the 'reactants' involved in the protoverse's development, would it not? So you can't really reverse the process unless you put the energy back in. Hmm...I need to think about this some more.

That's because Stargate SG1 is a hackneyed, unoriginal, garbage production that makes "Armageddon" look like Oscar material.

And just what does that opinion have to do with the thread?

 

[Solarbaby]

If you removed the energy and used it in our universe. Then put the used up energy -(whatever new form of energy it had become- back into the proto-universe and then used the time reversing device would that energy turn back into the original state as the proto universe began its big bang over again?