How do you think TNG would have developed if...

[Surefire]

...

1. It was the Federation and Romulans as allies, with the Klingon Empire being the enemy power.

or

2. What about if the Klingons and Romulans were allies, and the Federation was relatively all alone?


One unrelated question, was anyone disapointed that we never got to see the Enterprise go one-on-one vs. a D' deridex class Warbird in TNG? Yes, we see the one-sided battles where the Romulans hit the E-D with warning shots in some episodes, but never a to the death battle like we saw in TOS "Balance of Terror".

 

[JNG]

...

1. It was the Federation and Romulans as allies, with the Klingon Empire being the enemy power.

Not only do I think this possibility would have been cool, but I would have bought it a lot more, since in TOS it seems to me that the Romulans were the enemies concerned with "honor" and such and the Klingons the ones who would scheme and do anything to win. But the Klingons were more remembered as enemies, and so the message of peace was better served by things having improved with them, whereas the Romulans seem to have disappeared behind their borders for decades.

I think we are meant to believe that peace with the Romulans will happen some day.

2. What about if the Klingons and Romulans were allies, and the Federation was relatively all alone?

It always seemed hard to believe that those two could team up for long, and I like their shifting history of betrayal. I suspect there are a lot of half-Klingon and half-Romulan babies running around certain border areas. But if this had been the case, I imagine a somewhat darker series would have resulted, with a more prevalent "Cold War" feel and a bigger looming threat. Again, this would not have represented the progress toward world peace since the era in which the original series was made, so I can see why they didn't do it, but it could have presented some interesting storytelling possibilities as well. You do have to wonder if you'd have to reduce the relative capabilities of the Klingon and Romulan Empires in such a scenario, or else beg the question of why they have not teamed up and taken on the Federation already. In the TOS era, I always imagined the Klingons and Federation were somewhat more reluctant to go to war with one another than they would have been anyway precisely because it is just like the Romulans to wait until their own moment of greatest opportunity and strike against the weakened winner (and/or loser).

Maurice Hurley was going to destroy the Romulan Star Empire altogether in his original Borg storyline! I'm glad this didn't happen.

One unrelated question, was anyone disapointed that we never got to see the Enterprise go one-on-one vs. a D' deridex class Warbird in TNG? Yes, we see the one-sided battles where the Romulans hit the E-D with warning shots in some episodes, but never a to the death battle like we saw in TOS "Balance of Terror".

Totally. The thing is supposed to overawe those on the Enterprise; it's actually sort of in the script for "The Neutral Zone" that it intimidates everyone, and you don't get that a lot on TNG. Dialogue sometimes suggests the Warbird could have severely damaged or destroyed the Enterprise in just a few volleys; heck, even some numbers in the Technical Manual support this idea, and it's not the only piece of background information that does so (also Writer's Technical Guide, the Encyclopedias). I suspect the Federation just doesn't know as much as they'd like about that ship and its capabilities, and avoids taking chances.

A battle between the two would have been cool, particularly if it forced the Enterprise to really let loose as it did in "Best of Both Worlds." In a stand-up slugfest or surprise attack, I'd favor the warbird, but she probably can't maneuver as well* and has somewhat inferior maximum warp speed, so Our Heroes could beat the odds with some clever tactics, as always. Definitely one of my favorite ship designs, though.



*the designer forgot to include impulse engines on the model

 

[Finn]

The closest thing we got was the "battle" in TNG's Timescape.

 

[Picard Alpha]

...
Totally. The thing is supposed to overawe those on the Enterprise; it's actually sort of in the script for "The Neutral Zone" that it intimidates everyone, and you don't get that a lot on TNG. Dialogue sometimes suggests the Warbird could have severely damaged or destroyed the Enterprise in just a few volleys; heck, even some numbers in the Technical Manual support this idea, and it's not the only piece of background information that does so (also Writer's Technical Guide, the Encyclopedias). I suspect the Federation just doesn't know as much as they'd like about that ship and its capabilities, and avoids taking chances.

I wouldn't question that at all, let's remember a 30 year old Klingon Bird of Prey shot down the Enterprise in just a few quick shots. The refresh rate on the Enterprise's phasers is so long that the ole gal only got off 1 or two blasts from the main phaser array.

 

[Surefire]

Totally. The thing is supposed to overawe those on the Enterprise; it's actually sort of in the script for "The Neutral Zone" that it intimidates everyone, and you don't get that a lot on TNG. Dialogue sometimes suggests the Warbird could have severely damaged or destroyed the Enterprise in just a few volleys; heck, even some numbers in the Technical Manual support this idea, and it's not the only piece of background information that does so (also Writer's Technical Guide, the Encyclopedias). I suspect the Federation just doesn't know as much as they'd like about that ship and its capabilities, and avoids taking chances.

A battle between the two would have been cool, particularly if it forced the Enterprise to really let loose as it did in "Best of Both Worlds." In a stand-up slugfest or surprise attack, I'd favor the warbird, but she probably can't maneuver as well* and has somewhat inferior maximum warp speed, so Our Heroes could beat the odds with some clever tactics, as always. Definitely one of my favorite ship designs, though.



*the designer forgot to include impulse engines on the model

I wonder if it would have been an interesting development if the Warbird won the confrontation (crippled the Enterprise, and left visible Hull breeches and perhaps knocked a nacelle off the pylon), and it took a last second miracle (such as help from other Federation ships that arrive on the scene) to save the Enterprise in "The Neutral Zone". (this could have been a cliffhanger/2 part story that really turned the Romulans into serious threats for the whole series)?

 

[Red Ranger]

People,

An interesting supposition. If it were the Romulans as the Federation's allies, they might've made Michael Dorn a Romulan character. I think as originally conceived, though, the Romulans and Klingons were like Red China and the Soviets, both dangerous enemies but uneasy allies.

Regaring Romulan/Klingon hybrids, they would be the ultimate outcasts, as strongly mentioned in the TNG two-parter, Birthright. I also think there was a whole planet of genetically engineered Klingon/Romulan hybrids in a TOS novel whose name escapes me. Kirk, of course, falls in love with one of them.

Red Ranger

 

[Anwar]

Well, Sela was a Romulan-Human hybrid and she wasn't discriminated against despite humans being their enemy. If the Klingons and Romulans were allies then the hybrids wouldn't have any problems in society.

 

[USS Excelsior]

One unrelated question, was anyone disapointed that we never got to see the Enterprise go one-on-one vs. a D' deridex class Warbird in TNG?

The closest we ever got to see to that was the battle in Voyager's "Message In A Bottle" where 3 D'deridex warbirds were combatting 2 Defiant and an Akira Class before the Prometheus finished it off.

 

[ALF]

I can't see TNG working without Worf.
And those scenarios would remove Worf outright, a la Yesterday's Enterprise.

 

[Bacl]

I think too much emphasis is place upon these arbitrary designations in hypotheticals such as this.

If Gene Rodenberry had decided to call the Klingons the Krangolts, would different stories have emerged? No, you would likely find that all stories were developed exactly the same, as the name of the fictional race would have no impact on development.

Likewise, I feel that things such as "Which of these two fictional aliens are now our ally?" is, also arbitrary. Swap Klingon for Romulan and you'd end up with the same stories, more or less, and probably the same development, only this time we say "Klingon" instead of "Romulan."

Just my opinion. I don't think some of these things have as high an impact as we might initially believe.

 

[Surefire]

I can't see TNG working without Worf.
And those scenarios would remove Worf outright, a la Yesterday's Enterprise.

Yeah, Worf was my favorite character so I agree.

 

[Red Ranger]

I think too much emphasis is place upon these arbitrary designations in hypotheticals such as this.

If Gene Rodenberry had decided to call the Klingons the Krangolts, would different stories have emerged? No, you would likely find that all stories were developed exactly the same, as the name of the fictional race would have no impact on development.

Likewise, I feel that things such as "Which of these two fictional aliens are now our ally?" is, also arbitrary. Swap Klingon for Romulan and you'd end up with the same stories, more or less, and probably the same development, only this time we say "Klingon" instead of "Romulan."

Just my opinion. I don't think some of these things have as high an impact as we might initially believe.

Baci:

You raise a good point. It's sort of what I was saying when I said that if TNG established the Romulans as the Federation's allies, the character of Worf would've been a Romulan instead. We would have had a Romulan civil war with maybe the Klingons interfering, Sela would've been half-Klingon, etc.!

Red Ranger

 

[Bacl]

I think too much emphasis is place upon these arbitrary designations in hypotheticals such as this.

If Gene Rodenberry had decided to call the Klingons the Krangolts, would different stories have emerged? No, you would likely find that all stories were developed exactly the same, as the name of the fictional race would have no impact on development.

Likewise, I feel that things such as "Which of these two fictional aliens are now our ally?" is, also arbitrary. Swap Klingon for Romulan and you'd end up with the same stories, more or less, and probably the same development, only this time we say "Klingon" instead of "Romulan."

Just my opinion. I don't think some of these things have as high an impact as we might initially believe.

Baci:

You raise a good point. It's sort of what I was saying when I said that if TNG established the Romulans as the Federation's allies, the character of Worf would've been a Romulan instead. We would have had a Romulan civil war with maybe the Klingons interfering, Sela would've been half-Klingon, etc.!

Red Ranger

Very likely. While things may not have been an exact carbon copy with only the words (and makeup) switch for Romulan and Klingon, given how much reimagining and elaboration/development was done to Klingons and Romulans since TOS, that it is highly likely the Romulans would have developed extremely similar to how Klingons were developed: a warrior culture, code of honor, etc. Klingons may have been developed as the political chess players, etc.

Ultimately, the same episodes would have been written, the same character development likely taken place. Casting Michael Dorn as a Romulan raised by human parents, and adhering strictly to the code of honor among his people would likely have yielded the same character with the same storylines.