How do you like your Trek?

[DonIago]

Well, that's kind of where the schism I mentioned in my first post originates, y'see...

 

[RookieBatman]

Do you think that Sherlock Holmes was only brought back so they could sell more books?

Absolutely. Granted, I'm no expert, but from what I've read, Arthur Conan Doyle was quite sick of writing Holmes, and killed him off so he could go write other stuff. But the public was begging for more, so when the dollar signs got big enough, he brought him back...

 

[DonIago]

I can't figure out whether I am or am not surprised by the poll results thus far...

 

[Whill]

Well, I don't think anyone thinks that -every- primary character Trek death should be meaningless, just that it should be allowed to happen from time to time.

I don't think it makes for good story telling. These are heroic tells with heroes and villains. Maybe someone can do a good story about a prime character having a meaningless death but Trek has yet to do so IMHO. Meaningless is what happens to Red Shirts, not Our Heroes.

Yeah, it really pissed me off they way they killed Tasha Yar. I understand that dealing with meaningless death was a part of the message, but still. "Yesterday's Enterprise" in which the alternate-Tasha found out about that meaningless death from Guinan, gave Alt-Tasha's sacrifice more meaning, but then they un-did that to create Sela.

 

[Pemmer Harge]

Arthur Conan Doyle was quite sick of writing Holmes, and killed him off so he could go write other stuff. But the public was begging for more, so when the dollar signs got big enough, he brought him back...

Dollar signs?

 

[Ensign Johnson]

I don't think every character should have a heroic death, but it should be dramatic. If its not going to be heroic it should be unexpected. There were a few unexpected non-heroic deaths on Buffy that worked well because it made it more sad.

 

[Whill]

Re: The Immortal Kirk

Remember...

There was a part of Guinan that never left the Nexus, so we can assume it is possible that there is a part of Soran, Picard and Kirk still in there too. And since there is a timeless quality to reality in the Nexus, we can assume that the Nexus-Kirk is disconnected from the Kirk that left, so the Nexus-Kirk lives on in the Nexus beyond the death of the physical Kirk.

Besides "the part left behind" being a way that Guinan could provide guidance to Picard from within the Nexus, it also served as a subtle suggestion of a "sci-fi heaven" of sorts for Kirk to live in for all eternity. So a part of Kirk is immortal...

 

[RookieBatman]

Arthur Conan Doyle was quite sick of writing Holmes, and killed him off so he could go write other stuff. But the public was begging for more, so when the dollar signs got big enough, he brought him back...

Dollar signs?

Speaking figuratively, of course. Is there a more salient British expression?

 

[DonIago]

Pound signs?

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

I don't think every character should have a heroic death, but it should be dramatic. If its not going to be heroic it should be unexpected. There were a few unexpected non-heroic deaths on Buffy that worked well because it made it more sad.

Well I would say Dax's death was "unexpected non-heroic". Though her murderer being Dukat kind of upped it's level of drama. If she had just died from a random energy spike it would have pissed people off I think.

 

[Anji]

Call me old fashioned but I don't think main characters should be killed off. It's a tried and true attage that has shown time and time again a killing of that kind only causes alienation and frustration of the viewer/reader. And who wants to invest time in a medium only to be frustrated.

Yes, in real life people die and die meaningless deaths. But this is not reality, this is escapism.

 

[Admiral Shran]

Realistic. These people aren't supposed to be gods. They're supposed to be regular Human Beings. Regular Human Beings don't always get to have heroic deaths. Sometimes death is meaningless.

I loved how they killed off Kirk. Like I said, he's not some mythical, invincible, immortal god-man - he's a Human. By having him die in the way they did, they allowed the character to be fully Human. Just having him keep coming back again and again and again and again diminishes the character IMO.

 

[GalaxyClass1701]

Well done!

 

[RandyS]

I think they should bring Kirk back just so he could die by breaking his neck from falling off the head. THAT should put an end to this tired debate once and for all.

As for the actual question, I really don't care.

 

[Ensign Johnson]

I don't think every character should have a heroic death, but it should be dramatic. If its not going to be heroic it should be unexpected. There were a few unexpected non-heroic deaths on Buffy that worked well because it made it more sad.

Well I would say Dax's death was "unexpected non-heroic". Though her murderer being Dukat kind of upped it's level of drama. If she had just died from a random energy spike it would have pissed people off I think.

For some reason it looked kind of lame to me. I'd have preferred it if he'd just snapped her neck or something. They also had a deathbed scene to really milk it. I was sad enough anyway

I'd inadvertently seen a spoiler for Jadzia's death so it wasn't unexpected for me. I was mad with Sisko for not listening to the wormhole aliens though.

 

[Kirby]

A few years ago, I began to wonder how many people who think "Bring Back ____" have actually dealt with death? My mother and three of my grandparents are deceased. It's part of life. Yes, it's science-fiction but to say "it's science-fiction!" is a cop-out. What it really gets down to is that fans can't get over the characters and the writers usually -- but not always -- kill off these characters for shock value or something happened behind the scenes with the actors or actresses which wrote the characters into a corner.

For the "shock value", the writers weren't serious about killing the character off and hadn't exhausted all story possibilities with them yet.

I hate the whole "Bring back ____" campaigns. Stargate loved killing off very likable Doctors for shock value. They caved in to the Bring back Dr. Beckett campaign which completely destroyed any emotion that may have been brought on by his amazingly stupid 'exploding tumors' death.

 

[RookieBatman]

Pound signs?

I figured it would confuse the Yank readers, since they might think I was just talking about the symbol. (#)


As for the subject at hand...

I think another factor that's important to consider is what type of format the show in question has. If it's broad and sorta cartoony, then if a character ever does die, it should be in a very over-the-top, heroic fashion, because that's what the show is preparing the audience for. I think that Stargate: Atlantis did a pretty good job of getting viewers prepared for the fact that some character or other might die unexpectedly, so then it's okay for that show to do unexpected deaths. Something that's realistic and gritty should have realistic deaths. But a show where characters regularly escape from fantastic odds in unbelievable, incredible ways shouldn't have characters dying realisticly, because that realistic situation is then rendered unrealistic by the show's internal logic. If that character fantastically escaped from so many similar situations before, why didn't they figure a way out that time? Only because the writers didn't want them to.

 

[Arpy]

I think another factor that's important to consider is what type of format the show in question has. If it's broad and sorta cartoony, then if a character ever does die, it should be in a very over-the-top, heroic fashion, because that's what the show is preparing the audience for. I think that Stargate: Atlantis did a pretty good job of getting viewers prepared for the fact that some character or other might die unexpectedly, so then it's okay for that show to do unexpected deaths. Something that's realistic and gritty should have realistic deaths. But a show where characters regularly escape from fantastic odds in unbelievable, incredible ways shouldn't have characters dying realisticly, because that realistic situation is then rendered unrealistic by the show's internal logic. If that character fantastically escaped from so many similar situations before, why didn't they figure a way out that time? Only because the writers didn't want them to.

QFT.

 

[Admiral Shran]

I think they should bring Kirk back just so he could die by breaking his neck from falling off the head. THAT should put an end to this tired debate once and for all.

As for the actual question, I really don't care.

Can we PLEASE have Pine's Kirk die this way? That would be awesome!

 

[Pauln6]

I think that more 'established' characters should die more often. It must always be a quandary for actors and writers but it makes the show more exciting if nobody is completely safe. A group of second tier, semi-regular characters can be useful for this purpose with the odd primary character biting the dust. However, it would be nice if regular characters just transferred off the ship too like Bev, Jeffrey Sincalr in B5, or O'Neill in SG1 ready for future guest appearances.

I thought that they fumbled the ball a bit with Sela. I'd have preferred to see her played by a different actor with a less offensive wig and have older Tasha be part of the Romulan underground reflecting her childhood and giving us future appearances such as the Spock episodes.