How do the red bursts work?

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Discovery' started by AmbassadorPointyEars, Apr 23, 2019.

  1. AmbassadorPointyEars

    AmbassadorPointyEars Commander Red Shirt

    We see the red bursts as a group during the first episode, then they appear one-by-one (with the exception of the first). So, did Michael just send two bursts each time? Is there some kind of time reflection where each burst also shows up at the time of the first episode? Is this addressed? Speculation?
     
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  2. Alan Roi

    Alan Roi Commodore Fleet Captain

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    From the point of where she starts, Burnham does all her jumps just about simultaniously. So that's where you get the bursts all appearing at about the same time.

    Otherwise, I'll refer to Einstein's theory that space and time are the same thing and that Starfleet does not have best tools for the job of reading anomalous distortions of that kind the space-time continuum with any kind of accuracy, as the time part of space-time isn't really their bailiwick.
     
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  3. David cgc

    David cgc Admiral Premium Member

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    The final explanation for the red bursts doesn't really fit with what we finally saw of them being ad-hoc signals sent by Burnham on a spur-of-the-moment plan and not part of a more elaborate scheme. The "reflection" idea seems to be the most workable, but I'm not sure what could motivate all seven signals reappearing briefly at a single point in time before their creation. Likewise, even if I accept that the initial bursts were somehow too brief for Starfleet to get the most general fix on them, even cross-referencing from observatories across the Federation, I can't think of any reason they wouldn't be able to tell that either three appeared in the same place, or four appeared in two places (depending on if the beacon Burnham set so Discovery wouldn't get lost in the wormhole appeared from the outside to be coming from Terralysium or Xahia), even if they couldn't tell where those places exactly were (or how they could tell the difference between one bursts and two bursts in the same place at the same time).
     
  4. Kelso

    Kelso Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Seven mysterious red signals appeared. Starfleet could detect them, display them on a star map, and measure the distance between them, but they were unable to locate them.

    So they had to wait for the signals to appear so they could be located.

    What's confusing about that?
     
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  5. Gepard

    Gepard Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I actually had to reread your post to determine it was sarcasm. :lol:

    The Red Signals appear to be yet another casualty of the behind the scenes turmoil. There's no explanation for why Starfleet expects exactly 7 more, nor is it clear how they could detect them simultaneously in the past if they were sent one by one over a period of months. (Alan Roi, don't @ me. Your post on the subject is nonsense.) A commenter on Jammer's Reviews summed it up pretty well:

    "Brother introduces the seven original signals, which all appear over a 24-hour period, are mapped by Starfleet and drawn by young Spock in a premonition. The new signals that happen after that in New Eden and The Sound Of Thunder are correctly treated not as part of the original seven but as *additional signals*. It's only later on in the season (after Berg and Harberts had gone) that these were retconned as being the second and third signal (which they clearly weren't). In the Kurtzman half of the season, new signals that follow are then explicitly referred to as "the fourth of seven" and "the fifth of seven" etc."

    So, yeah. It's completely confusing and self-contradictory.
     
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  6. Midquest

    Midquest Commander Red Shirt

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    I can't say why they appear at once, but the idea that they couldn't pinpoint their exact location makes sense and is addressed in the episodes themselves. In the epilogue, we literally see how long it takes between a signal appearing and it being confirmed and located, and it isn't instantaneous. Give how Connolly (may he rest in peace, or at least in pieces) describes the signals' incredibly brief appearance, that much isn't a mystery.

    I do wonder about them all appearing at once, though. I'd like to see a decent explanation given.
     
  7. Alan Roi

    Alan Roi Commodore Fleet Captain

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    If we look at the Red Angel as an anchor point. Then all the excursions may very well appear to come from the same point in time-space, because its always enters the past from the same point in time.but with Starfleet equipment, not visible in the same point in space, since it too is locked in a particular location in time. However, this theory may be disproven if Burnham bounces around a lot in the future.
     
  8. Midquest

    Midquest Commander Red Shirt

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    Actually, it occurs to me that we shouldn't see all seven signals sent yet at all. The sixth and seventh signals don't originate from the same origin point as the first five, and Michael barely knows about the 7th until seconds before going through the wormhole itself. In theory, it would make more sense for her to send all the signals in an initial burst from the other side of the wormhole. What doesn't make sense is that the second and seven signals both originated from Terralysium (judging by the 51,000 light-years away comment), yet appear in different places on the maps of the signals that we are shown throughout the season.
     
  9. Alan Roi

    Alan Roi Commodore Fleet Captain

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    But they do have the same origin point as the rest. The Suit.
     
  10. Psquare75

    Psquare75 Ensign Newbie

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    who said the 7th originated from Terralysium? I suspect season 3 is about ending up in the beta quadrant, 51K LY away, and sendin that signal.
     
  11. cultcross

    cultcross We truly were a song of ice and fire Moderator

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    No it doesn't. The 6th and 7th were sent from the 33rd century.
     
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  12. Gepard

    Gepard Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Something else that occurred to me – the Enterprise was crippled off screen from investigating a sign before season 2 even started. Where does that fit into the chronology? They didn't show Burnham sending it. It wasn't part of the original seven, right (which we have to assume are reflections of Burnham's seven anyway)? So where did it come from?
     
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  13. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    No it doesn't make much sense if you look too closely. They all appeared brightly but too quickly to position accurately (space is insanely huge after all, even it Disco usually treats the galaxy as a town) then each began re-appearing and every one acting as if they knew they all eventually would.

    Perhaps the Angel suit was programmed to echo them all at a specific Stardate? Like every time jump briefly goes though Stardate 1025.7 or whatever, hence them all showing up at once.

    Spock drawing them before they appeared makes no sense at all seemingly... It was Mother Burnham he mild melded with, and she had no knowledge of the seven signals (hence them realising they had to build another suit so Michael could do it) and I can't think of a workaround.
    I thought Terralysium was about 50,000 light years away?
     
  14. Mechanoid1

    Mechanoid1 Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I watched a Kurtzman interview, in which he stated that the writers started with the ending and worked backwards to the begining episodes. The apearance of the 7 red signals up front in the begining and then red signals started to apear 1 by 1, then the 4rth of 7..... I just figured the writers lost track of the sequence of events because of the way this story arc was written.
     
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  15. Crazyewok

    Crazyewok Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    It's a polarised tacayon eddie caused by a subspace inverted quantum manifold in the space time continuum.

    :nyah:
     
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  16. cultcross

    cultcross We truly were a song of ice and fire Moderator

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    Perfect, should have said!
     
  17. Michael

    Michael In alignment with canon Moderator

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    No, the way they handled the signals makes no sense to me either. Of course you can handwave it away with some techbobabble, but I find it kind of laughable that in order for the events to make sense we as the audience would have to come up with some convoluted answer employing magical temporal mechanics, when it should have been a relatively simple fix in the writing and planning of the season that would have prevented the flub.
     
  18. cultcross

    cultcross We truly were a song of ice and fire Moderator

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    It seems they are keen for everyone to know it was the "plan all along", Easter eggs in the title sequence and all, but they don't seem to have thought about whether that plan made any sense at all.
     
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  19. Crazyewok

    Crazyewok Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    O and tetreyons,lots and lots of them.
     
  20. Search4

    Search4 Captain Captain

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    Logically there need to be 14 signals, seven in the beginning, known to Mom, warning Starfleet, and used when she mind meld with Spock (since that was Mom). Perhaps this is part of S3.

    Alternatively Michael did the signal work and then the meld (in her future eg S3) but Spock didn’t recognize adult Michael. In his timeframe she was a child. Could work.

    Either way the process by which they figured out that these signals in this order would be required to stop Control is never defined. For example, Kaminar is brought in to the final fight Instead of 100 Federation cruisers. Why them? You wouldn’t know they would useful without many iterations. It wasn’t Mom as of her appearance.

    Perhaps Saru goes back and gets her sister and other Kelpians into the fighters!
     
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