How do so many people know about the Time War? (Spoilers)

[DWF]

Just for the record here's the original essay.

"Meet The Doctor" © Russell T Davies

When the Doctor came to Earth – to track down the Nestene Consciousness and its plastic servants, the Autons – he had no intention of finding a human companion. He’d had fellow travellers alongside him before, of course, and most of them human. His favourite species! But that was in the old days, when the universe seemed young and fresh and more inclined to friendly gestures.

The universe, since then, had changed. At least for the Doctor.

There had been a War, the Great Time War between the Daleks and the Time Lords. There had been two Time Wars before this – the skirmish between the Halldons and the Eternals, and then the brutal slaughter of the Omnicraven Uprising – and on both occasions, the Doctor’s people had stepped in to settle the matter. The Time Lords had a policy of non-interference in the affairs of the universe, but on a higher level, in affairs of the Time Vortex, they assumed discreetly the role of protectors. They were the self-appointed keepers of the peace. Until forced to fight.

Now, the story of the Great (and final) Time War is hard to piece together, because so little survived. Certainly, both had been testing each others strength for many, many years. The Daleks had threatened the Time Lord High Council before, by trying to replace its members with Dalek duplicates. And one of the Dalek Puppet Emperors had openly declared his hostility. Though perhaps the Daleks’ wrath was justifiable – they had been provoked! At one point in their history, the Time Lords had actually sent the Doctor back in time, to prevent the creation of the Daleks. An act of genocide! The Time Lords fired the first shot – though in their defence, they took this course of action because they had foreseen a time when the Daleks would overrun all civilized life and become the dominant life-form in the universe.

Some tried to find a peaceful solution. While it’s hard to find precise records of these events, it’s said that under the Act of Master Restitution, President Romana opened a peace treaty with the Daleks. Others claim that the Etra Prime Incident began the escalation of events. But whatever the cause – and its almost certain that the full story has yet to be uncovered – the terrible War began. The Time Lords reached back into their own history, to assemble a fleet of Bowships, Black Hole Carriers and N-Forms; the Daleks unleashed the full might of the Deathsmiths of Goth, and launched an awesome fleet into the Vortex, led by the Emperor himself.

The War raged, but for most species in the universe, life continued as normal. The War was fought in the Vortex, and beyond that, in the Ultimate Void, beyond the eyes and ears of ordinary creatures. The Lesser Species lived in ignorance. If a planet found its history subtle changing – perhaps distorting and rewriting itself under the pressures of the rupturing Vortex – then its people were part of that change, and perceived nothing to be wrong. Only the Higher Species – those further up the evolutionary ladder – saw what was happening. The Forest of Cheem gazed upon the bloodshed, and wept. The Nestene Consciousness lost all of its planets, and found itself mutating under temporal stress. The Greater Animus perished and its Carsenome Walls fell into dust. And it is said that the Eternals themselves watched, and despaired of this reality, and fled their hallowed halls, never to be seen again…

Years passed, as the mighty armies clashed. And then, silence. No one knows exactly what happened in the final battle. And no one knows how it came to end. All that is known is that one man strode from the wreckage, one man walked free from the ruins of Gallifrey and Skaro. The Time Lord called the Doctor. And his hearts were heavy as he boarded his ship once more, and took to the skies, to escape everything he had just seen; everything he had just done…

He is alone and thinks, somehow, that he deserves this. And as he wanders on, he decides that no one should stand beside him. He’s got no room, on board his TARDIS. He is a traveler, and needs no other.

But then he finds himself in the cellar of a London shop at closing time, and he grabs the hand of an Earthling called Rose Tyler, and looks into her eyes, and all those resolutions go out of the window! The journey goes on, with a human at his side, and who knows where it will end…

And far away, across the universe, on the planet Crafe Tec Heydra, one side of a mountain carries carvings and hieroglyphs, crude representations of an invisible War. The artwork shows two races clashing, one metal, one flesh; a fearsome explosion; and a solitary survivor walking from the wreckage. Solitary? Perhaps not. Under this figure, a phrase has been scratched in the stone, which translates as: you are not alone…

 

[The Wormhole]

OK, so if the destruction of Gallifrey and the Time Lords always happens in the distant past of the rest of the universe, then how come no one ever mentions this to the Doctor in the classic series, remarking that he's the last of the Time Lord race, as they seem to always be doing in NuWho? In the classic show, the Time Lords are always around, wherever and whenever you go.

That's because classic era Who takes place in a pre-Time War time stream where the Time Lords exist. Nu Who is post-Time War time stream where the Time Lords are only legend.

Think of it as similar to the Pandorica two parter. Part 1 is the old time stream and the Time Lords exist, until the point where the universe ended, think of that as the Time War. Then, when all is said and the Eleventh Doctor flies the Pandorica into TARDIS and restores everything. This is like the Eight or Ninth or whichever Doctor actually fought the War using the Moment to destroy Gallifrey and wipe out the Time Lords and Daleks, resulting in the creation of the new time stream.

 

[Admiral_Young]

I think the obvious answer would be because concept of the Time War hadn't been even conceived yet thus no one would know to mention it to the Doctor.

I loved that essay when I first read it...would be interesting for the Doctor to visit planet Crafe Hec Hydra with Amy.

 

[HappyDayRiot]

IMO the BBC novels did a better job at depicting Gallifrey's destruction. Gallifrey didn't just blow up, it was erased from existence, and because of this the Time Lords never existed in the first place, not even as memories, making the Doctor more of an anomaly. Far more logical than what you have in NuWho.

You say this is more logical... but didn't you spend gods know how many posts expend worrying about the cracks in the universe arc erasing continuity?

 

[Admiral_Young]

Yes he did...in fact he was adamant that it would render previous continuity invalid IIRC...if I'm wrong EJA feel free to correct me.

 

[EJA]

The classic series and NuWho can't be totally separated from one another by the War though, because we've seen that past Doctors still exist relative to Doctors Nine to Eleven, as evidenced in Time Crash where Ten met Five. I believe there was also an IDW comic book where Ten leaves 19th century London just before Four arrives with Leela for their adventure in The Talons of Weng-Chiang.

 

[EJA]

IMO the BBC novels did a better job at depicting Gallifrey's destruction. Gallifrey didn't just blow up, it was erased from existence, and because of this the Time Lords never existed in the first place, not even as memories, making the Doctor more of an anomaly. Far more logical than what you have in NuWho.

You say this is more logical... but didn't you spend gods know how many posts expend worrying about the cracks in the universe arc erasing continuity?

That's true, but since then I've modified my opinions somewhat. I just reckon the books' approach was slightly more mature.

 

[The Wormhole]

The classic series and NuWho can't be totally separated from one another by the War though, because we've seen that past Doctors still exist relative to Doctors Nine to Eleven, as evidenced in Time Crash where Ten met Five. I believe there was also an IDW comic book where Ten leaves 19th century London just before Four arrives with Leela for their adventure in The Talons of Weng-Chiang.

The TARDIS did have its time shields down in Time Crash, and the whole thing took place within the vortex, which may have allowed anyone from either side of the time stream to interact. In fact, maybe it was because the two Doctors were from points of the time stream on opposite sides of the Time War that caused the space-time rip the size of Belgium or whatever it was?

Meanwhile, comics aren't canon and we don't have to accept what's there as valid.

 

[The Mirrorball Man]

Meanwhile, comics aren't canon and we don't have to accept what's there as valid.

There's no canon in Doctor Who.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

space-time rip the size of Belgium

Hey! Watch your language!

 

[EJA]

Meanwhile, comics aren't canon and we don't have to accept what's there as valid.

Yeah, but things like that are too fun and interesting to just ignore outright.

 

[The]

Sure, I agree. There's a lot neat alt-media stuff. But, when it comes down to debating or scrutinizing the inner-logic of the show, you could only take into account the show itself because that's all they ever take into consideration when making it. The alt-media stuff doesn't exist for the main continuity of Doctor Who unless explicitly adopted by the screen (ala' Human Nature or The Lodger). There are other fans, though, that disagree and say you can accept everything completely, no matter any contradictions due to the nature of time travel. I am in the camp that can see the advantages of the latter, but sticks to the main ideology that Doctor Who is the television show, and everything else is a myth or legend surrounding the character...

 

[DWF]

I loved that essay when I first read it...would be interesting for the Doctor to visit planet Crafe Hec Hydra with Amy.

Well at the top of the cliff written in High Gallifreyan are the words "Hello Sweetie".

 

[EJA]

Wait, Doctors One-Eight and Nine-Eleven do still co-exist in the same universe though, right?

 

[Starkers]

Of course.

 

[wamdue]

Wait, Doctors One-Eight and Nine-Eleven do still co-exist in the same universe though, right?

Nine - 11 exisit in the universe changed (in whatever way it was) by the Time War, whilst 11, exisits in the reset Big Bang 2 universe, but I dont think we will see any major changes to time in that universe, for example the spin-offs continue, and if that level of detail is bought back, then the rest of time & space should be ok.

 

[EJA]

Could the Time Lords have had some idea that they were destined to be destroyed in a chaotic war in their future? In The End of Time, don't they already know that the Doctor and the Master are recorded in history as being the sole survivors of the War? Maybe this was why they sent the Doctor to prevent the Daleks' creation in Genesis of the Daleks - because they'd had some inkling of things to come, and hoped to avert their own destruction?

 

[Stevil2001]

The Time War in the novels certainly uses this idea-- the Time Lords try to acquire Compassion (the living TARDIS) from the Doctor in The Shadows of Avalon because they have seen the War on the time-space visualizer. I think The Ancestor Cell also uses the idea.

 

[Sci]

Could the Time Lords have had some idea that they were destined to be destroyed in a chaotic war in their future? In The End of Time, don't they already know that the Doctor and the Master are recorded in history as being the sole survivors of the War?

That looked to me like it was a very recent prophecy given to the Time Lords by the Visionary (the insane woman with the henna tattoos); in fact, the implication seemed to have been that those prophecies were made within the previous day or so.

As for whether or not the Time Lords knew they would one day be destroyed -- I've sometimes mused that perhaps the reason the Doctor changed his name and was forced to flee Gallifrey was that the Time Lords somehow detected that he was destined to bring about their extinction.

 

[EJA]

I'd love to see an episode where the Eleventh Doctor lands on a planet and tells the inhabitants the terrible, sad story of the Last Great Time War, and how he is now the last of his kind, and after he leaves in the TARDIS, a party of Time Lords from the War era or before arrive, who of course haven't yet experienced events from the Doctor's POV.

Even when Doctors One to Eight were flying through space and time, the Time War would have already been history for a lot of people in the universe. It was to the Krillitanes in the early 21st century in School Reunion (and I see no reason to believe they were time travellers), and to the Time Agents stationed in the fifth millennium AD. The problem lies with characters like the Sontaran in The Time Warrior, Professor Dastari in The Two Doctors, and Sabalom Glitz in The Trial of a Time Lord - they all lived in different points in time, but none of them ever treated the Doctor like a historical relic, which is what just about everyone in NuWho seems to do. I think the mistake the writers make is in assuming that the Doctor's personal timeline is the same as that of the rest of the universe.