How do/did you feel about the return of the Enterprise-D?

[The Wormhole]

Thing is, I never had all that high of regard for the character. She was just very bland, 90% of the time. McFadden was capable, she could hit it out of the park, with the right material. "Remember Me", "Sub Rosa".

Agreed, Crusher is a rather bland character who writers always seemed to struggle to write for. It got to the point on TNG where they actually began rewriting episodes originally intended for another character as Crusher episodes because otherwise she wouldn't have had her own episode that season, like Suspicions which had originally been written as a Geordi episode. Hell, even the old post-Nemesis novel continuity where her and Picard were married and raising a child together only gave her minimal roles, to the point of actually introducing another medical officer as the Go-To for medical matters in a book's storyline.

So while there is truth to the claim that Picard S3 turned her into a horrible person, by doing so it at least actually did something interesting with the character for the first time ever.

 

[Admiral Jean-Luc Picard]

The weapons are still capable of mass destruction regardless of their intended purpose. A single starship after all is capable of annihilating all life on a whole planet with its phasers and photon torpedoes. Why does a museum need such weapons.

We can't apply logic based on how actual museum ships work? Regardless, we circle back to my previous question, why does a museum need to be armed with phasers and photon torpedoes?

See, that's what always bothered me about the S1 and S3 finale. We do we need 200+ Romulan ships to take out one small settlement? Should have been like 5 full-size Romulan Warbirds, plus some of those smaller Romulan ships hanging out by the Artifact (the Borg cube). The Federation fleet that came to the rescue should have been what, 10 ships? What we got was a scene from Star Wars. The same applies to the series finale. Does it really take that many ships to attack Earth?

 

[fireproof78]

See, that's what always bothered me about the S1 and S3 finale. We do we need 200+ Romulan ships to take out one small settlement? Should have been like 5 full-size Romulan Warbirds, plus some of those smaller Romulan ships hanging out by the Artifact (the Borg cube). The Federation fleet that came to the rescue should have been what, 10 ships? What we got was a scene from Star Wars. The same applies to the series finale. Does it really take that many ships to attack Earth?

*glances at the history of sending only a couple of ships*

Yeah, probably they do need that.

 

[Paul Weaver]

See, that's what always bothered me about the S1 and S3 finale. We do we need 200+ Romulan ships to take out one small settlement? Should have been like 5 full-size Romulan Warbirds, plus some of those smaller Romulan ships hanging out by the Artifact (the Borg cube). The Federation fleet that came to the rescue should have been what, 10 ships? What we got was a scene from Star Wars. The same applies to the series finale. Does it really take that many ships to attack Earth?

The copy/paste fleets had many issues.

Short of a sneak attack which can bypass planetary defenses by small ships (Breen attack on Earth), spacefaring worlds have planetary shields and defenses which will easily deal with a few ships.

We don't know what the shielding on the small settlement was, nor did the Romulans. Better to oversupply then undersupply.

 

[Admiral Jean-Luc Picard]

The copy/paste fleets had many issues.

Short of a sneak attack which can bypass planetary defenses by small ships (Breen attack on Earth), spacefaring worlds have planetary shields and defenses which will easily deal with a few ships.

We don't know what the shielding on the small settlement was, nor did the Romulans. Better to oversupply then undersupply.

There's no real reason to thing a settlement of a few hundred people at most would have planetary shielding, but even if they did, would not 5-10 Romulan Warbirds get the job done? If not, it makes the Romulans look incredibly weak compared to the TNG/DS9 days.

 

[fireproof78]

There's no real reason to thing a settlement of a few hundred people at most would have planetary shielding, but even if they did, would not 5-10 Romulan Warbirds get the job done? If not, it makes the Romulans look incredibly weak compared to the TNG/DS9 days.

Shouldn't they be weak by default?


Their main planet blew up.


ETA: fix grammar.

 

[Admiral Jean-Luc Picard]

Shouldn't they be weak by default?


They're main planet blew up.

They were the Romulan Star Empire, a rival to the Federation and Klingon Empire, so I'd like to imagine they would have more than one planet. I always wondered by Romulus didn't simply pick one of their colony words and just evacuate everyone there? Additionally, they lost the home world, not their fleet of starships.

 

[fireproof78]

They were the Romulan Star Empire, a rival to the Federation and Klingon Empire, so I'd like to imagine they would have more than one planet. I always wondered by Romulus didn't simply pick one of their colony words and just evacuate everyone there? Additionally, they lost the home world, not their fleet of starships.

I mean, Praxis blew up and the Klingons were devastated. So, it's not unprecedented. To borrow from Heinlein, it is possible if enough rungs are knocked out at once.

Romulans are not a conglomerate of Great Houses. They are highly centralized and top down driven power. If you create enough chaos and uncertainty in leadership you'll suffer greater losses.

 

[The Wormhole]

They were the Romulan Star Empire, a rival to the Federation and Klingon Empire, so I'd like to imagine they would have more than one planet.

The Romulan Star Empire has ceased to exist and many smaller political entities have taken power across Romulan territory. In S1, we see the Romulan Free State, which appears to have somewhat cordial relations with the Federation.

I always wondered by Romulus didn't simply pick one of their colony words and just evacuate everyone there?

According to the novels, the Romulan government was intent on officially denying the supernova to the point they did not engage in their own evacuation efforts and even tried to discredit Starfleet's

 

[Admiral Jean-Luc Picard]

I mean, Praxis blew up and the Klingons were devastated. So, it's not unprecedented. To borrow from Heinlein, it is possible if enough rungs are knocked out at once.

Romulans are not a conglomerate of Great Houses. They are highly centralized and top down driven power. If you create enough chaos and uncertainty in leadership you'll suffer greater losses.

It's been a while since I've seen the movie. That was a Klingon moon, not in orbit over the home world, yes? Weren't the Klingons facing a resource crisis so devastating, it led to peace with the Federation?

I was just always under the impression that the Romulan Star Empire was maybe not hundreds of worlds like the Federation, but certainly large and fast like the Federation and Klingon Empire. At the very least, you'd think they'd have conquered worlds and colonies, otherwise how can they really be a "Star Empire" or even oppose the Klingons and Federation if they're just one solar system?

 

[Admiral Jean-Luc Picard]

The Romulan Star Empire has ceased to exist and many smaller political entities have taken power across Romulan territory. In S1, we see the Romulan Free State, which appears to have somewhat cordial relations with the Federation.

According to the novels, the Romulan government was intent on officially denying the supernova to the point they did not engage in their own evacuation efforts and even tried to discredit Starfleet's

I've seen PIC S1 a few times, but it always bothered me that the Romulan Star Empire collapsed so easily. As I said in my above post to fireproof78, why not pick a colony world and evacuate everyone there? However, the idea of the Romulan Star Empire fracturing into smaller Romulan Territories, that I buy. Was that in PIC S1 and I just missed it each time I watched? haha

The Romulan Star Empire, a threat to the Klingon Empire, such a powerful threat in the 2150's that it forced the Federation to become a thing, how could the Romulan leaders also be so stupid to just deny the supernova?

 

[A Ruffian]

The Romulan Star Empire, a threat to the Klingon Empire, such a powerful threat in the 2150's that it forced the Federation to become a thing, how could the Romulan leaders also be so stupid to just deny the supernova?

Because the Romulans were just that stubborn/stupid.
Also, in the comic Countdown, the Senate thought it was a Vulcan plot.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Things can be brought out of mothballs, Its all down to necessity and desperation.

Indeed.

The USS Melbourne, for example.

Back in the day, the old Excelsior-class Melbourne was retired in favor of a new Nebula-class version. The Nebula version was destroyed by the Borg at Wolf 359 (we see it in the 'graveyard' scene), and subsequently the old Excelsior version was taken out of mothballs and used as well. (It's the one we see in DS9's' "Emissary".) And of course it was also destroyed.

As for the Enterprise-D: Am I the only one who actually questions whether the version we saw in PIC is the "real" Ent-D? It's only the saucer, after all. If you put on a new secondary hull, is it even the same ship?

The true Enterprise-D - ANY Starfleet vessel, for that matter - isn't just the saucer, it's the union of primary AND secondary hull. If you replace either one of those, how can you logically call it the same ship?

 

[fireproof78]

It's been a while since I've seen the movie. That was a Klingon moon, not in orbit over the home world, yes? Weren't the Klingons facing a resource crisis so devastating, it led to peace with the Federation?

I believe Praxis was a Kronos moon and devastated the industrial base.

I was just always under the impression that the Romulan Star Empire was maybe not hundreds of worlds like the Federation, but certainly large and fast like the Federation and Klingon Empire. At the very least, you'd think they'd have conquered worlds and colonies, otherwise how can they really be a "Star Empire" or even oppose the Klingons and Federation if they're just one solar system?

That's not the point at all. The point is leadership. Who rises up to take the place of the lost leaders? Who drives the government forward and commands it? And if you have multiple competing voices who listens to whom?

It has nothing to do with worlds and everything to do with leadership and timing. Remember, the Dominion was still fresh, the loses still felt, and the coup by Shinzon still undoing much of the leadership of the Romulans. They would be vulnerable and also even more suspicious that the nova was a lie to undermine their power base.

 

[Admiral Jean-Luc Picard]

As for the Enterprise-D: Am I the only one who actually questions whether the version we saw in PIC is the "real" Ent-D? It's only the saucer, after all. If you put on a new secondary hull, is it even the same ship?

The true Enterprise-D - ANY Starfleet vessel, for that matter - isn't just the saucer, it's the union of primary AND secondary hull. If you replace either one of those, how can you logically call it the same ship?

From a museum POV, I think it would be part of the museum piece story that the saucer section was salvaged and repaired. It's possible the Syraquse (spelling?) had lost it's saucer section, so it was docked to the Ent-D saucer. The question is, was the battle section renamed with Enterprise and 1701-D markings? That it's renamed to "complete" the Enterprise-D would likely be common knowledge for museum goers.

 

[Admiral Jean-Luc Picard]

I believe Praxis was a Kronos moon and devastated the industrial base.


That's not the point at all. The point is leadership. Who rises up to take the place of the lost leaders? Who drives the government forward and commands it? And if you have multiple competing voices who listens to whom?

It has nothing to do with worlds and everything to do with leadership and timing. Remember, the Dominion was still fresh, the loses still felt, and the coup by Shinzon still undoing much of the leadership of the Romulans. They would be vulnerable and also even more suspicious that the nova was a lie to undermine their power base.

If Praxis was a moon over Kronos, wouldn't that shockwave that bitch-slapped the Excelsior have effectively made Kronos uninhabitable, or at least been an extinction or almost extinction event? It makes more sense to me as a moon in another solar system.

Wouldn't Empire and World Leaders be the first ones off Romulus to ensure the empire and the leadership of Romulus prevails? True, the fleet lost in DS9's 3rd season failed attempt to destroy the Changeling home world, the Dominion War, and Shinzon's takeover would definitely mean a temporary loss of ships and complicated leadership.

Am I wrong in thinking Romulan space, meaning solar systems and worlds is on par with the Federation and Klingons?

 

[fireproof78]

If Praxis was a moon over Kronos, wouldn't that shockwave that bitch-slapped the Excelsior have effectively made Kronos uninhabitable, or at least been an extinction or almost extinction event? It makes more sense to me as a moon in another solar system.

Praxis

Praxis was a natural moon of the Klingon homeworld, Qo'noS. It was the only moon of that planet and was inhabited. Praxis was used as the Klingon Empire's key energy-production facility in the 23rd century. (DIS: "Will You Take My Hand?"; Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country; VOY: "Flashback")...

memory-alpha.fandom.com

It says a moon of Kronos. Make of it what you will.

Wouldn't Empire and World Leaders be the first ones off Romulus to ensure the empire and the leadership of Romulus prevails? True, the fleet lost in DS9's 3rd season failed attempt to destroy the Changeling home world, the Dominion War, and Shinzon's takeover would definitely mean a temporary loss of ships and complicated leadership.

This assumes the leadership was intact enough to continue forward. Two, they had two reassurances, one from Spock, one from Picard, of potential support that didn't happen in time or at all.

Am I wrong in thinking Romulan space, meaning solar systems and worlds is on par with the Federation and Klingons?

You're not wrong but that's not the point. Leadership is the point. If you disrupt that leadership, creating smaller factions that war amongst themselves to secure power, or inept leaders, all the worlds in the galaxy will not save them from inept leadership.

 

[DonIago]

If Praxis was a moon over Kronos, wouldn't that shockwave that bitch-slapped the Excelsior have effectively made Kronos uninhabitable, or at least been an extinction or almost extinction event? It makes more sense to me as a moon in another solar system.

Since the shockwave appears to travel primarily along one axis when it occurs, my reasoning has been that Kronos was lucky enough to be outside of the direct path of it.

 

[Admiral Jean-Luc Picard]

Praxis

Praxis was a natural moon of the Klingon homeworld, Qo'noS. It was the only moon of that planet and was inhabited. Praxis was used as the Klingon Empire's key energy-production facility in the 23rd century. (DIS: "Will You Take My Hand?"; Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country; VOY: "Flashback")...

memory-alpha.fandom.com

It says a moon of Kronos. Make of it what you will.

This assumes the leadership was intact enough to continue forward. Two, they had two reassurances, one from Spock, one from Picard, of potential support that didn't happen in time or at all.

You're not wrong but that's not the point. Leadership is the point. If you disrupt that leadership, creating smaller factions that war amongst themselves to secure power, or inept leaders, all the worlds in the galaxy will not save them from inept leadership.

If the moon is over Kronos, how did the moon exploding not cause an extinction level event on the planet below? If that's the Kronos moon, everyone on the planet is dead.

No way in hell the Romulan Star Empire would put the fate of their entire planet in the hands of just two men, even if it's Ambassador Spock and Captain Picard. You take the help, and you continue evacuations. Look how 9-11 united America for a time. Now, put than on a global scale. Romulans gonna work together to evacuate, maybe not globally united, but united enough for people to be fleeing the planet as fast as Romulanly possible.

I just don't imagine in-fighting when the entire planet is going to be destroyed, and the only real answer to survival is to evacuate the planet, knowing that you can't save everyone.

 

[Admiral Jean-Luc Picard]

Since the shockwave appears to travel primarily along one axis when it occurs, my reasoning has been that Kronos was lucky enough to be outside of the direct path of it.

Realistically, it should have been a spherical shockwave, I don't know why sci-fi movies keep doing the ring shockwave. If nothing else, moon debris would rain down on Kronos, killing everything on the planet.