• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

How did you picture the prequel era/story before the prequels?

HA!!! "Holding onto my fallacy" .... Cleverrrrrrr ....!!!

Look, whatever this book's about you're referring to me, I don't need the whole Bible, just a couple of chapters. So Rinzer's saying what, now? That George Lucas had his shit together and made A New Hope a classic without outside intervention?
Rinzer doesn't really "say" anything on the subject. His books are pretty much definitive accounts of the inception, development and creation of the Star Wars movies via a vast collection of interviews--both old and new--from the people who were directly involved at every step along with period correspondence and relevant ephemera. It's less of a "making of" and more of a biography, though of a film instead of a person.

I cite this because you seem struggling under the misguided assumption that any creative endeavour where the creator doesn't seal themselves inside an airtight chamber and eschews all support, advice and feedback is somehow less than valid. As if the person driving the whole thing is somehow coasting of the efforts of others. The reasoning that the only explanation for the perceived difference in quality from two sets of films made decades apart is the unsubstantiated lack of "outside help" is spurious at best.

Of course Lucas had help. That's never been in contention. He was working on various versions of that initial script since he started making 'American Graffiti'. The whole time he would bounce ideas and seek the advice from his circle of friends from film school as they sought his feedback from the various projects they were working on. And yes, he had help when making the Prequels too. Indeed a whole company and several subsidiaries who's entire purpose was to help him make movies.
 
Didn't Spielberg and Lucas exchange tiny percentages of the money brought in from Star Wars and Jaws as thank yous for helping each other out during their development stages?
I don't know the exact details, but I remember hearing something along those lines a few years ago.
 
Rinzer doesn't really "say" anything on the subject. His books are pretty much definitive accounts of the inception, development and creation of the Star Wars movies via a vast collection of interviews--both old and new--from the people who were directly involved at every step along with period correspondence and relevant ephemera. It's less of a "making of" and more of a biography, though of a film instead of a person.

I cite this because you seem struggling under the misguided assumption that any creative endeavour where the creator doesn't seal themselves inside an airtight chamber and eschews all support, advice and feedback is somehow less than valid. As if the person driving the whole thing is somehow coasting of the efforts of others. The reasoning that the only explanation for the perceived difference in quality from two sets of films made decades apart is the unsubstantiated lack of "outside help" is spurious at best.

Of course Lucas had help. That's never been in contention. He was working on various versions of that initial script since he started making 'American Graffiti'. The whole time he would bounce ideas and seek the advice from his circle of friends from film school as they sought his feedback from the various projects they were working on. And yes, he had help when making the Prequels too. Indeed a whole company and several subsidiaries who's entire purpose was to help him make movies.
I appreciate your considered response. I just know what a tight hold George Lucas had over the STAR WARS franchise. He was basically the iris that everything went through, regardless. But I admit that I'm not particularly aware of George Lucas' collaborations and don't have much else to say on that point ... it really is of no import.
 
Didn't Spielberg and Lucas exchange tiny percentages of the money brought in from Star Wars and Jaws as thank yous for helping each other out during their development stages?
I don't know the exact details, but I remember hearing something along those lines a few years ago.

IIRC it was more of a friendly bet. Lucas didn't think Star Wars would make much money and thought 'Close Encounters' was more commercially viable. He really did Star Wars because it was something he was passionate about. At best he figured it'd break even, maybe make enough to get a low budget sequel made (which is where 'Splinter of the Mind's Eye' came from.)

I appreciate your considered response. I just know what a tight hold George Lucas had over the STAR WARS franchise. He was basically the iris that everything went through, regardless.

So you're saying the guy who invented and owned an intellectual property and put his own money into making the movies independently of the studios had full creative control? Hmm. Strange. I wonder why that was?

But I admit that I'm not particularly aware of George Lucas' collaborations and don't have much else to say on that point ... it really is of no import

And you also say that the degree to which a creator collaborated with others has no bearing on claims about how much collaboration a creator had with others? I must say, that's some impressive mental gymnastics. I'm surprised you haven't strained something yet.
 
Last edited:
A lot of fans of The Prequel Trilogy champion Revenge of the Sith as being the best of them, but for all its flaws, The Phantom Menace has the most charm. That's making a silk purse out of a sow's ear, perhaps, but ... well ... there it is.
 
IIRC it was more of a friendly bet. Lucas didn't think Star Wars would make much money and thought 'Close Encounters' was more commercially viable. He really did Star Wars because it was something he was passionate about. At best he figured it'd break even, maybe make enough to get a low budget sequel made (which is where 'Splinter of the Mind's Eye' came from.)
Ah, that was it. The main thing I remembered for sure was that Spielberg got, and possibly even still gets, a small amount of that good old Star Wars $$$.
 
Rewatching TESB, there's not an explicit Jedi policy of celibacy but Yoda is so insistent that they be focused, spartan and pretty detached that, at least after watching the prequels and maybe even if you hadn't, it's pretty easy to infer it.
 
I didn't imagine for a minute that Jedi dressed like moisture farmers from Tatooine. I guess Obi-Wan wasn't really worried about the Empire's inquisitors and Jedi hunters all those years... ;)

Most of my original thoughts on the prequel era involved the snippets we heard in the first couple of OT movies coupled with a lot of Ralph McQuarrie concept art imagery, like Stormies wielding energy swords and Jedi Knights actually wearing some sort of sealed armor that would allow them to survive combat in a vacuum. I also imagined the clone wars as clones against clones, rather than clones versus droids. Or rather, mixtures of both on either side.
 
I didn't imagine for a minute that Jedi dressed like moisture farmers from Tatooine. I guess Obi-Wan wasn't really worried about the Empire's inquisitors and Jedi hunters all those years... ;)

Most of my original thoughts on the prequel era involved the snippets we heard in the first couple of OT movies coupled with a lot of Ralph McQuarrie concept art imagery, like Stormies wielding energy swords and Jedi Knights actually wearing some sort of sealed armor that would allow them to survive combat in a vacuum. I also imagined the clone wars as clones against clones, rather than clones versus droids. Or rather, mixtures of both on either side.
Especially when, in the script or novel (Have to check which) Luke's outfit is described as a "Jedi outfit" and the concept art for TPM was a similar idea, with some different flairs and cuts.
DqLL0UO.png
 
Just to disabuse certain fans of the notion that somehow Jedi wardrobe was somehow retconned because of Sir Alec's costume; various drafts of the ANH script and contemporary notes describe Ben's garb as being Jedi Robes. That they're simple and rustic just serves to underline how simple and non-materialistically the Jedi lived. That plus Ben had been tromping around the desert in those things for going on two decades, so no wonder they look well worn!

Also consider that one of Lucas's stated goals of the original film is for everything in this fantastical world from the props and wardrobe to the spaceships to look very nondescript. That whole living-in universe aesthetic was very deliberate.
 
I never had much issue with the Jedi robes but given what we saw of the order in the prequels the more variegated styles from the second and third films (and later cartoons) make more sense to me.
 
I don't have issues with Jedi robes when they are walking around the streets, visiting diners, etc. Where it falls short is when General Kenobi is wearing robes while flying a fighter and fighting a battle in interstellar space, attempting to board an enemy starship. I remember cringing seeing those buzz droids all over his ship at the start of ROTS. One hole in the canopy- dead. Try to eject? Dead. Systems malfunction resulting in loss of pressurization? Dead. At this point, a flight suit (at a minimum) isn't too much of a stretch, and an armored flight suit would have been even better. Just sayin' ;)
 
I didn't have any pre-conceived ideas on how the Prequel movies would turn out. I thought it was best that I didn't. And I ended up very surprised at how much I enjoyed them.
 
I don't have issues with Jedi robes when they are walking around the streets, visiting diners, etc. Where it falls short is when General Kenobi is wearing robes while flying a fighter and fighting a battle in interstellar space, attempting to board an enemy starship. I remember cringing seeing those buzz droids all over his ship at the start of ROTS. One hole in the canopy- dead. Try to eject? Dead. Systems malfunction resulting in loss of pressurization? Dead. At this point, a flight suit (at a minimum) isn't too much of a stretch, and an armored flight suit would have been even better. Just sayin' ;)

I get the feeling that the Jedi care not for such things and just trust the Force. If they are meant to live, they live. If they are meant to die, it is the will of the Force. So why bother with a flight suit under that kind of ideology? At best they have tiny oxygen breathers from swimming, or if they need to go really deep for long periods of time, deep sea suits. But in a Starfighters? Naw. The Force should be enough to get them through anything, and if it isn't, it was their time.
 
The way I look at it, they were on a rescue mission so they needed to be able to disembark their fighters quickly and while under fire. Bulky flight gear would only get in the way. Which is often the case with Jedi, so they rarely if ever bother with flightsuits or helmets. It's pretty much the same reason they don't often wear armor in battle. It'd only slow them down or get in the way.
 
The robes kind of grew on me, over time, but they didn't really blend in on Coruscant. Works great on Tatooine though.
 
My view of the past was influenced by Timothy Zahn's theory that the Clone Wars were fought against insane clones, including clones of the Jedi.
I imagined that Obi-Wan and Anakin were fighting side by side against the clones.
The rest I never put much thought into....
 
The robes kind of grew on me, over time, but they didn't really blend in on Coruscant. Works great on Tatooine though.
On the upper levels maybe not, but down in the deeper levels like 1313 where they're most needed, they blend right in.
 
The way I look at it, they were on a rescue mission so they needed to be able to disembark their fighters quickly and while under fire. Bulky flight gear would only get in the way. Which is often the case with Jedi, so they rarely if ever bother with flightsuits or helmets. It's pretty much the same reason they don't often wear armor in battle. It'd only slow them down or get in the way.
It's been a while since I played it, but wasn't that also the case in KOTOR? As you progressed up the Jedi levels, any equipped armor was a bigger detriment to your character.
 
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top