How did you picture the prequel era/story before the prequels?

[Set Harth]

So, how should Lucas have disposed of Padme, anyway?

Clearly she should have died offscreen between the trilogies, because that would have been totally satisfying, and absolutely no one would have complained!

makes more sense than the "she died of a broken heart" idea

Droids by definition can have no sense of the Force.

and gives Palaptine's "you killed her" line an extra dimension of truth.

Which it does not need.

 

[Tuskin38]

and gives Palaptine's "you killed her" line an extra dimension of truth.

It doesn't need truth.

 

[Reverend]

It doesn't need truth.

I didn't say it did, but I think it makes it more interesting (not to mention sinister) if Palaptine knew that was happening and let it. Maybe even helped it along. Who knows?

 

[Tracy Trek]

Padme is secretly hampered by an astonishing emotional naivete. It makes a certain sense when one considers she's just as much of a child prodigy as Anakin. Presumably spending most of her early childhood in educational institutions, before moving onto politics and altruism.

The scenes that were cut from the movie (but still remain in the novelization) would seem to indicate this. When she and Anakin visit her family, she talks about being in public service from a very young age. And studying for it before that.

Palaptine knew that was happening and let it. Maybe even helped it along. Who knows?

Maybe Palpatine was draining her life force. I watched a video on Youtube where someone put forth that idea.

 

[Reverend]

Maybe Palpatine was draining her life force. I watched a video on Youtube where someone put forth that idea.

Not impossible but also not as thematically powerful as Anakin literally holding onto her too tight. Besides, you'd think if Palpatine thought there was half a chance of another Skywalker he could conceivably train from birth, he certainly wouldn't go out of his way to murder her, especially not after Anakin was crippled.

 

[2takesfrakes]

Clearly she should have died offscreen between the trilogies, because that would have been totally satisfying, and absolutely no one would have complained!

I sure as hell wouldn't have. But Titanic was making all that shittin' money, at the time ...

 

[mos6507]

I used to think of the prequel era as the space-opera equivalent of King Arthur and the Knights of the roundtable. Beyond plot, it had to have a BIG EPIC David Lean or Cecil B Demille quality to it. Instead the prequels had an almost matter-of-fact quality of being thrown in the middle and just being shown one scene after the other without any sort of epic bombast.

I know Star Wars, overall, was cut in a matter-of-fact quality, but it had its epic moments. The big entrance to the throne room with the heraldic fanfare is one of them. It needed big wide-angle sword-and-sandals type shots like this.

The Jedi council chamber should have been much more cathedral like. Instead we got this penthouse apartment thing that could have been done on a TV-movie budget.

 

[LJones41]

The Jedi council chamber should have been much more cathedral like. Instead we got this penthouse apartment thing that could have been done on a TV-movie budget.

And I wonder why I cannot take Prequel bashing seriously.

 

[Reverend]

I used to think of the prequel era as the space-opera equivalent of King Arthur and the Knights of the roundtable. Beyond plot, it had to have a BIG EPIC David Lean or Cecil B Demille quality to it. Instead the prequels had an almost matter-of-fact quality of being thrown in the middle and just being shown one scene after the other without any sort of epic bombast.

I know Star Wars, overall, was cut in a matter-of-fact quality, but it had its epic moments. The big entrance to the throne room with the heraldic fanfare is one of them. It needed big wide-angle sword-and-sandals type shots like this.

The Jedi council chamber should have been much more cathedral like. Instead we got this penthouse apartment thing that could have been done on a TV-movie budget.

The temple's main entry hall *was* very much "cathedral like". Hell, it was as if St. Peter's Basilica had a love child with Khazad-dûm which then got juiced up on steroids!

Having that large a chamber just for the council however would have been far too ostentatious, especially for an order that's meant to be minimalists when it comes to personal comforts and materialism in general. That said, the council room did have a fairly high vaulted dome, it's just that the camera never needed to tilt up so you only ever saw it in the exterior establishing shots.

 

[fireproof78]

I didn't say it did, but I think it makes it more interesting (not to mention sinister) if Palaptine knew that was happening and let it. Maybe even helped it along. Who knows?

That harkens back to an idea I read in an early draft of ROTS, were Palpatine insinuates that Dooku had arranged his mother's death at the hand of the Tuskens.

I sure as hell wouldn't have. But Titanic was making all that shittin' money, at the time ...

I wouldn't have complained either, and don't think it was necessary to see Padme die.

And I wonder why I cannot take Prequel bashing seriously.

Yes, I do wonder this. Mostly because it seems that any criticism is labeled "bashing" and a different point of view is missed out upon due to this labeling.

 

[Tuskin38]

And I wonder why I cannot take Prequel bashing seriously.

That isn't bashing, it is criticism

 

[Reverend]

That harkens back to an idea I read in an early draft of ROTS, were Palpatine insinuates that Dooku had arranged his mother's death at the hand of the Tuskens.

I'm still about half convinced that's actually what went down. If nothing else the timing is awfully convenient for Sidious.

I wouldn't have complained either, and don't think it was necessary to see Padme die.

I don't know, I think it would have been a bit cheap to keep her alive at the end of RotS.
I mean imagine someone is watching the trilogy for the first time: last they saw Padme at the end of RotS she was alive and with Leia.
Then they watch ANH and there's Leia but no mention of Padme. Was she on Alderaan when it was destroyed?
Then they watch tESB: the Vader secret is out but still not even a mention of Padme.
Then they finally get to RotJ: you get that big long talk about Vader and Luke's sister being Leia but still no mention of Padme. Then right before the third act: "she died when I was very young..."
That's going to seem like a very back-handed way of retroactively disposing of her, no?

 

[2takesfrakes]

Padme's 15 minutes of fame were in TPM. Even in AotC, the assassination attempts against her keep pushing her relevancy into the backdrop. Even on Geonosis, when she's firing her blaster in the battle at the arena, she's just shooting into the crowd, along with everyone else. She's just kept around to occasion Annie to spout bad poetry and whisper sweet nothings into her tender ear. In RotS, being pregnant, now, it's even worse. She's preparing the baby's room and otherwise the unwitting star in Annie's nightmares, which propel him towards the Dark Side. Her only other job is to hatch her twins.

And the whole time - OK? - this WHOLE time, we know absolutely nothing about her, except that she's a peace lover and wants her Annie. Outside of her notable beauty, she's completely forgettable. And that's the absolute worst about killing her off in RotS ... there's no impact. It's just there, because she's done all the story requires of her. Made worse by the fact that Vader's birth is such a laughable anti-climax. "NOOOOOOOOOOooooooo ...!!!" Allowing Padme's death to take place unseen, between trilogies would not have been a wrong decision, especially in this light.

 

[fireproof78]

I'm still about half convinced that's actually what went down. If nothing else the timing is awfully convenient for Sidious.

I don't know, I think it would have been a bit cheap to keep her alive at the end of RotS.
I mean imagine someone is watching the trilogy for the first time: last they saw Padme at the end of RotS she was alive and with Leia.
Then they watch ANH and there's Leia but no mention of Padme. Was she on Alderaan when it was destroyed?
Then they watch tESB: the Vader secret is out but still not even a mention of Padme.
Then they finally get to RotJ: you get that big long talk about Vader and Luke's sister being Leia but still no mention of Padme. Then right before the third act: "she died when I was very young..."
That's going to seem like a very back-handed way of retroactively disposing of her, no?

Due to Padme's diminishing role throughout the PT, I'm not convinced that it would have been that difficult. If they had kept her aid in forming the Alliance to Restore the Republic, and the Petition of 2000 in ROTS, as well as a lot of Padme's family stuff in AOTC, then I think her death would be necessary.

So, I'm torn between the two. On the one hand, I do like Padme as a character, and would like the resolution to her in the PT, since it won't come in the OT until later. On the other, her role was reduced to nearly secondary in ROTS, and her death after giving birth to two kids strains credibility for me.

 

[Reverend]

Due to Padme's diminishing role throughout the PT, I'm not convinced that it would have been that difficult. If they had kept her aid in forming the Alliance to Restore the Republic, and the Petition of 2000 in ROTS, as well as a lot of Padme's family stuff in AOTC, then I think her death would be necessary.

So, I'm torn between the two. On the one hand, I do like Padme as a character, and would like the resolution to her in the PT, since it won't come in the OT until later. On the other, her role was reduced to nearly secondary in ROTS, and her death after giving birth to two kids strains credibility for me.

However poorly she was developed in the PT (and I have issues with how she was used even in TPM) the fact is just being Luke & Leia's mother makes her fate very relevant and having her die off screen between the trilogies in unspecified circumstances would be really bad storytelling. For that alone they had to kill her off in RotS.
Of course that's not to say that the twins *had* to be born in the last 10 mins of that movie, but to do otherwise would necessitate a drastic restructuring of not only that movie, but probably the two before it. So by the time they got around to RotS the dye was already cast.

 

[fireproof78]

However poorly she was developed in the PT (and I have issues with how she was used even in TPM) the fact is just being Luke & Leia's mother makes her fate very relevant and having her die off screen between the trilogies in unspecified circumstances would be really bad storytelling. For that alone they had to kill her off in RotS. Of course that's not to say that the twins *had* to be born in the last 10 mins of that movie, but to do otherwise would necessitate a drastic restructuring of not only that movie, but probably the two before it. So by the time they got around to RotS the dye was already cast.

Again, I disagree. But, this thread is about how we imagined the PT prior to the PT, I did not think their mom warranted a death scene. I thought that the news of Anakin's "death" (becoming Darth Vader) would cripple her but she would try to carry on for the sake of Leia and the Rebellion.

I will generally agree that the way the PT sets it up leads to that inevitable scene, but I don't think the PT needed to go that way. Also, it still strains credulity when a lady gives birth to twins and feels she has no reason to live. Not saying not possible, just that it is a sticking point for me.

 

[Reverend]

Again, I disagree. But, this thread is about how we imagined the PT prior to the PT, I did not think their mom warranted a death scene. I thought that the news of Anakin's "death" (becoming Darth Vader) would cripple her but she would try to carry on for the sake of Leia and the Rebellion.

If one were designing the saga from scratch, I might agree but the PT was made in a world where RotJ existed first and so that line needed to be addressed.

I will generally agree that the way the PT sets it up leads to that inevitable scene, but I don't think the PT needed to go that way. Also, it still strains credulity when a lady gives birth to twins and feels she has no reason to live. Not saying not possible, just that it is a sticking point for me.

As I've said, I'm not convinced by the "lost the will to live" argument. I'm pretty well convinced Vader really did kill her, even if he didn't realise that was what he was doing.

 

[mos6507]

The temple's main entry hall *was* very much "cathedral like". Hell, it was as if St. Peter's Basilica had a love child with Khazad-dûm which then got juiced up on steroids!

I understand there's more to that building besides the council set, but it was not featured well enough, especially in Episode I. Again, it's the "ho-hum" way that environments are revealed that bugs me. There's no shortage of sweeping vistas in the prequels, but you're not given any big showy "reveals" of those vistas like the old epics of the 50s. My head canon was expecting that and I didn't get it.

Remember the revised Corouscant ending in ROTJ special edition? That's a little more like it.

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Episode I revealing the prequel universe with closeups of aliens speaking in Jackie Chan accents and a spy-like "caper" with Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan immediately dashed my childhood expectations. By the time we get to the Wacky Races announcer it's gotten ridiculous. That's not even factoring in Jar Jar.

 

[2takesfrakes]

As I've said, I'm not convinced by the "lost the will to live" argument. I'm pretty well convinced Vader really did kill her, even if he didn't realise that was what he was doing.

I've not watched Revenge of the Sith since before the Holidays, last year, but my recollection is that George Lucas had not connected the dots in this fashion. He had not envisioned it, that way. It's been a little while since I've seen it, as I say, but if it had ever crossed his mind that Annie was sucking Padme's will to live during that sequence, he didn't get that across, onscreen. But as just an idea of your own, I think it's a neat idea, but ... can the Force even work like that? Shit ...

I liked how in the Original Trilogy, for the most part, at any rate, it looked like the Force was -- basically -- just believing in yourself. Having faith that there's NOTHING you can't do ... no matter who are. And that's sweet, you know? That ... that's the kind of message to dish out to paying customers. Now, it's all about bloodlines and horseshit like that. So how it actually works in-Universe baffles me. I kind of put that out of my mind and keep the view that this is just something the Jedi promote, the same way the Trill try to say only The Chosen Few have the aptitude to host a symbiant. The Force is whatever you want it to be ...

 

[Tracy Trek]

Another theory I read somewhere. Padme willed herself to die, not because of a broken heart (although her heart probably was broken). But to make sure Anakin couldn't trace her which might lead him and Palpatine to the children.