None of the TNG movies happened anyway. (Kidding.....maybe)
how did the Defiant survive?
- Thread starter cwl
- Start date
The entirety to your question can be answered with two words:
Ablative Armor
Other than the Defiant-class and the Prometheus-class (which hadn't begun it's trials yet), none of the other starfleet ships at the time had that particular advancement.
Perhaps the Borg hit the Defiant a few times, but focused their attack on the bigger ships instead. We really didn't see enough of the battle to put all the pieces together, but I think if the Defiant was damaged and adrift, the Borg would have been using their resources to attack the fully functional ships that were attacking them.
Except for the times that they do. Like in the Wolf 359 flashback in Emissary, the Saratoga is crippled after the first few hits and Sisko orders evacuation. Then after Sisko's escape pod leaves, the Borg target and destroy the Saratoga, despite the fact that at this point it's just floating wreckage anyway. And there were still other ships putting up a fight.
As it was already mentioned, there were numerous factors at work here.
The movie producers wanted to destroy the Defiant, but Ds9 producers didn't want that and threatened with showing the Defiant as intact in the next episode as if it was never destroyed.
In-universe solution: the Defiant was equipped with an ablative hull armor which might have extended it's stay in the battle and come out of it damaged but salvageable.
Most ships that we've seen destroyed in the movie were probably heavily damaged from Borg weapons beforehand and what we saw were quite likely 'finishing blows', and I doubt that they went down 'easily'.
If anything this wasn't a repeat of Wolf 359.
SF updated it's ships and tactics to combat the Borg.
Realistically though, that so-called 'battle fleet' Sisko mentioned in DS9 should never have been put on indefinite hold because the Borg threat was not 'immediate' (what moron does that exactly? - oh yes, the WRITERS of the show - go figure - perhaps if that battle fleet was made as originally planned, the Dominion war could have gone... exactly the same as we've seen it because the writers would have said so either way
).
The movie producers wanted to destroy the Defiant, but Ds9 producers didn't want that and threatened with showing the Defiant as intact in the next episode as if it was never destroyed.
In-universe solution: the Defiant was equipped with an ablative hull armor which might have extended it's stay in the battle and come out of it damaged but salvageable.
Most ships that we've seen destroyed in the movie were probably heavily damaged from Borg weapons beforehand and what we saw were quite likely 'finishing blows', and I doubt that they went down 'easily'.
If anything this wasn't a repeat of Wolf 359.
SF updated it's ships and tactics to combat the Borg.
Realistically though, that so-called 'battle fleet' Sisko mentioned in DS9 should never have been put on indefinite hold because the Borg threat was not 'immediate' (what moron does that exactly? - oh yes, the WRITERS of the show - go figure - perhaps if that battle fleet was made as originally planned, the Dominion war could have gone... exactly the same as we've seen it because the writers would have said so either way
).Ablative Armour is a decent explanation, although the Borg were familiar with the technology and so could have adapted to it. but even with ablative armour the Defiant seemed to survive miraculously especially as you can see major hull damage on the starboard side of the Defiant early on in the fight and then the same area gets hit by a cutting beam later on. surely that would have been a killer blow. the armour and hull was clearly breached in that area the first time round.
Indeed... but the crew could have shut that section down (or isolated it) in order to not have running power when the Borg beams hit.
That might have prevented a major explosion that could have otherwise destroyed the ship.
But I digress, it should have been destroyed either way.
One thing I'd like to note is that the Borg destroyed crippled ships that were quite likely still able to fire weapons.
Because, even a heavily damaged star-ship can still pose a threat if it's weapons are active.
Remember Voyager in Year of Hell?
With all the extensive damage it took it was still able to fire torpedoes (phasers if I'm not mistaken were out of commission).
It only took them 200 hundred years, but Starfleet finally developed a kind of polarised hull plating that worked reliably.
I always kind of wondered why the Defiant didn't use detachable deflector array/torpedo move she is supposed to be able to do.
That might have done some serious damage to the cube.
And for no reason beyond coolness, I've always liked the Defiant class R&D patch
That might have done some serious damage to the cube.
And for no reason beyond coolness, I've always liked the Defiant class R&D patch
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It's possible but highly unlikely. I mean it was basically the hull around the starboard nacelle that had been breeched. Disabling power to that section would probably disable the ship and would have nothing to do with preventing any of the plasma or etc which would be ripe for explosion.
And for no reason beyond coolness, I've always liked the Defiant class R&D patch
Me, too
I wouldn't be so sure.
SF ships have the ability to isolate a compromised area and remove volatile elements if needed.
They probably diverted the majority of plasma to other parts of the ship (such as supplying energy for the weapons).
They didn't have to disable the entire nacelle though, just the part that was breached (and was probably protected by a force field).
Other heavily damaged ships that were destroyed most likely didn't have disabled weapons (and were still maneuverable - had access to impulse speeds).
I don't know, it seems a stretch especially considering how powerful borg cutting beams are. It would most likely have caused the nacelle to explode even with a force field.
Borg cutting beams are powerful, but SF built the Defiant to fight the Borg specifically... this much was stated.
SF ships abilities to isolate damaged areas is well documented, but as I said, I still think that the Defiant should have been destroyed in-spite of it.
On another note, Borg cutting beams were also used on the Enterprise-D in BoBW if you recall, and it took quite a bit of time for it to reach the core (though to be honest, being the Hero ship and all probably helped the situation).
But despite all of this, I would surmise that the seconday hull of the Enterprise-D contained just as 'volatile' areas that could have caused chain reactions, but did not.
There are many in-universe explanations that allowed the Defiant to survive (even if we do know it really should have been blown to bits either way).
I'm hardly a fan of Ds9 or the Defiant, but even so, this particular situation where the ship survived is 'excusable'.
SF ships abilities to isolate damaged areas is well documented, but as I said, I still think that the Defiant should have been destroyed in-spite of it.
On another note, Borg cutting beams were also used on the Enterprise-D in BoBW if you recall, and it took quite a bit of time for it to reach the core (though to be honest, being the Hero ship and all probably helped the situation).
But despite all of this, I would surmise that the seconday hull of the Enterprise-D contained just as 'volatile' areas that could have caused chain reactions, but did not.
There are many in-universe explanations that allowed the Defiant to survive (even if we do know it really should have been blown to bits either way).
I'm hardly a fan of Ds9 or the Defiant, but even so, this particular situation where the ship survived is 'excusable'.
We don't know if the Defiant ever was a successful Borg-fighter, rather than a failed one. We do know that Starfleet dropped her, though. And we know that her engines never overcame their teething troubles, not until Sisko revigorated the project (and possibly not then, either). But in addition, it might be that all the underlying assumptions about the Borg threat were proven false, and the Defiant as originally designed was actually a poorer Borg-fighter than the standard starships were.
We don't have any particular reason to think that Starfleet would have invented a way to protect starships from the Borg. Perhaps the Defiant was built because Starfleet thought it had invented a good way to hurt the Borg (say, pulse phasers with each pulse customized to defeat the adaptation routine), but Starfleet still had no means of protecting the Defiant from inevitable and quick death?
Nothing about ST:FC establishes the Defiant as a particularly apt survivor. Many ships are seen suffering hits of various degrees, and only Steamrunners die immediate and fiery deaths. At de-warping, it appears to come as news to Picard's posse that the admiral's vessel has been lost - so the obvious assumption is that this vessel survived from Typhon to (near) Earth just like the Defiant did.
Timo Saloniemi
We don't have any particular reason to think that Starfleet would have invented a way to protect starships from the Borg. Perhaps the Defiant was built because Starfleet thought it had invented a good way to hurt the Borg (say, pulse phasers with each pulse customized to defeat the adaptation routine), but Starfleet still had no means of protecting the Defiant from inevitable and quick death?
Nothing about ST:FC establishes the Defiant as a particularly apt survivor. Many ships are seen suffering hits of various degrees, and only Steamrunners die immediate and fiery deaths. At de-warping, it appears to come as news to Picard's posse that the admiral's vessel has been lost - so the obvious assumption is that this vessel survived from Typhon to (near) Earth just like the Defiant did.
Timo Saloniemi
I said that SF designed the Defiant 'to fight and defeat the Borg'... I hadn't really mentioned anything that indicated it was successful at the said function.
I was merely stating that because SF designed it to fight the Borg, the additions SF put in it that were mentioned on-screen could be seen as contributed to not cause destruction but hold out in combat with the Borg a while longer (at least until the Enterprise-E showed up).
Then again, on-screen evidence suggests other ships have been fighting the cube for as much time or longer and managed to survive (apart from some ships of course).
It all came down to just how much fire did individual ship take and all.
I was merely stating that because SF designed it to fight the Borg, the additions SF put in it that were mentioned on-screen could be seen as contributed to not cause destruction but hold out in combat with the Borg a while longer (at least until the Enterprise-E showed up).
Then again, on-screen evidence suggests other ships have been fighting the cube for as much time or longer and managed to survive (apart from some ships of course).
It all came down to just how much fire did individual ship take and all.
They never used the Defiant class ships like they should have, in swarms.
The way for them to be at their most effective against a cube would be SQNs of them working like present day fast attack missile boats.
Exactly, the Defiant is meant to be mass produced. It's small, manouverable and powerful for its size. when starfleet fields 3-4 Defiants for every standard cruiser sized ship then the numbers would prove a real threat to the Borg or anyone else for that matter.
the Defiant has ablative armour, I'm sure it's also reinforced and strengthened in other ways making it very durable for its size. but let's remember that it's a 130metre long ship. it's not meant to replace existing ships 1 v 1.
the fact that the Defiant survived too cutting beams to the same area for me is a bit of stretch. sure it's theoretically possible that the crew took damage control actions to prevent the second hit from being fatal but for me considering that other ships were dropping like flies it's a bit too much Deus Ex Machina.
When an akira class ship blows up so easily it says a lot. and the Akira isn't an old design by any means.
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