How Come Stargate goes on but Star Trek died?
- Thread starter Infern0
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Yeah, Enterprise was not at all great. SG-1 has the same issue with plenty o' ripoff stories, but in comparison to Enterprise, I find the characters far more endearing and entertaining. I also think there are a lot more elements more appealing to mainstream viewers, like the modern-day setting and feel.
Stargate is cheaper to make than Star Trek, and it definitely shows in both production quality and the quality of the writing and much of the acting (especially the horrid guest actors). Stargate gets what, 1-2M viewers? That's okay by Sci Fi standards, but on any real network, even CW (which would be demographically wrong for Trek), that would be too low. Network shows that get much less than 6-7M routinely get the axe.
Sure, a cheap-ass variety of Star Trek could be aired on the Sci Fi channel at a cost that could support itself even at Stargate-level ratings, but Paramount would have to be insane to devalue their brand that way. And Star Trek is still a valuable, premium brand name. It just needs some buffing up. Paramount is protecting their valuable asset by not allowing it back on TV until it can be done in a way that will support a high-quality approach.
Even when it was cancelled, ENT got higher ratings than Stargate does. So I don't think the modern day setting or the characters have much to do with it. There's a certain hard-core audience for space shows, but it's not enough to support a premium production.
BSG is a better example of Stargate of a show that can be produced cheaply enough that 1-2M viewers is okay, but doesn't look terribly cheap and still has high standards in writing and acting. So maybe it would make sense to turn Star Trek's TV incarnation over to Ron Moore. The visual quality would not be equal to what we'll see in the movie, and the movie actors wouldn't be involved, except for as occasional guest stars, but it could work.
Sure, a cheap-ass variety of Star Trek could be aired on the Sci Fi channel at a cost that could support itself even at Stargate-level ratings, but Paramount would have to be insane to devalue their brand that way. And Star Trek is still a valuable, premium brand name. It just needs some buffing up. Paramount is protecting their valuable asset by not allowing it back on TV until it can be done in a way that will support a high-quality approach.
Even when it was cancelled, ENT got higher ratings than Stargate does. So I don't think the modern day setting or the characters have much to do with it. There's a certain hard-core audience for space shows, but it's not enough to support a premium production.
BSG is a better example of Stargate of a show that can be produced cheaply enough that 1-2M viewers is okay, but doesn't look terribly cheap and still has high standards in writing and acting. So maybe it would make sense to turn Star Trek's TV incarnation over to Ron Moore. The visual quality would not be equal to what we'll see in the movie, and the movie actors wouldn't be involved, except for as occasional guest stars, but it could work.
It is a different series and it has only been running since 1996. Star Trek has been running almost continously since 1966 and has spawned 4 series and 10 movies. In 30 years time Stargate might be still running and into into it's own fifth series and several more movies.
I think Temis has said it all.
I grew tired of boring Stargate at about the time Enterprise became quite good, and I wouldn't want a new Trek series with the low production standarts of Stargate.
I grew tired of boring Stargate at about the time Enterprise became quite good, and I wouldn't want a new Trek series with the low production standarts of Stargate.
In my opinion.
The dropoff in quality from StarGate SG:1 to StarGate: Atlantis wasn't nearly as bad as the dropoff in quality from ST:OS & ST:TNG to ST
S9 then to Voyager then to Enterprise.
Star Trek started out much better than StarGate ever was so it makes the failures of the most recent series more glaring.
The dropoff in quality from StarGate SG:1 to StarGate: Atlantis wasn't nearly as bad as the dropoff in quality from ST:OS & ST:TNG to ST
S9 then to Voyager then to Enterprise.Star Trek started out much better than StarGate ever was so it makes the failures of the most recent series more glaring.
Recent seasons of Atlantis have seen a drop-off in quality compared to its earlier seasons and even SG-1's first eight seasons. Depending on how well Stargate Universe is, Stargate may be facing the same fate as Star Trek.
But yeah, comapred to what Star Trek became in its later years, specifically with Enterprise, Stargate is gold. In fact, SG-1 saw a huge increase in viewership during the Enterprise years from disgruntled Trek fans sick of the waning quality of Enterprise and saw SG-1 as the top quality entertainment it was back then.
Also, the Stargate franchise isn't exactly something that sets it aims very high. An average season costs significantly less than a Trek season, and now they're moving onto DVD movies and telemovies, which have less pressure on them than theatrical movies do.
Finally, the Stargate shows, regardless of the qaulity of the episodes, always have memorable characters which can make any show worth watching. Seriously, anyone can think up something they like about characters like Jack O'Neill, Teal'c, John Sheppard, or Rodney McKay.
But yeah, comapred to what Star Trek became in its later years, specifically with Enterprise, Stargate is gold. In fact, SG-1 saw a huge increase in viewership during the Enterprise years from disgruntled Trek fans sick of the waning quality of Enterprise and saw SG-1 as the top quality entertainment it was back then.
Also, the Stargate franchise isn't exactly something that sets it aims very high. An average season costs significantly less than a Trek season, and now they're moving onto DVD movies and telemovies, which have less pressure on them than theatrical movies do.
Finally, the Stargate shows, regardless of the qaulity of the episodes, always have memorable characters which can make any show worth watching. Seriously, anyone can think up something they like about characters like Jack O'Neill, Teal'c, John Sheppard, or Rodney McKay.
Actually, this is the fourth Stargate series coming up. This was the second. Atlantis is the third.
And no, Enterprise didn't kill the TV franchise. Voyager did, and Enterprise didn't improve quickly enough to resurrect it. The fourth season of Enterprise was on par with good TNG, in my opinion - it was just too late.
But the TV franchise isn't really dead, anyway - it's just asleep.
Oh, and I'd say SG1 was as good as Trek ever was on the whole - there were high points and low points, but overall, pretty darned good. But then again, it didn't start out as a Sci-Fi Channel show, it started on Showtime.
Well, Stargate is making Direct-to-DVD movies, and Star Trek is getting a $150-million blockbuster on the big screen made by one of the most popular Hollywood teams right now. Which one are you calling dead?
They made Enterprise. They're clearly clinically insane.
I think Stargate's success has a lot to do with the fact that (most of the time) the show doesn't try to take itself too seriously.
Does Wormhole X-treme count too?
No, but as they say, "One bad apple spoils the whole bunch." ENT was certainly bad enough that it deserved to die (including - maybe especially - the fanboi fourth season), but it didn't actually 'kill' Star Trek. What it did was leave a bad enough taste in the mouths of many to make them extremely wary of further attempts to create a prequel or to rewrite Trek's history just to fit a pet storyline ...
... oh, crap ...
I think that started out as a strength (e.g., the comedy in "Window of Opportunity"), but this also ended up being its biggest liability too. There used to be lighter moments that spiced up the occasional episode, but the creators are now reveling in being flippant, wading deeper into self-parody, and neck deep in cheese.
I think the same thing... it took a few years to find its feet but the comedy within the scripts, especially the rip off episodes (the Armageddon one springs to mind) really helped to make the show watchable.
I don't think much of Atlantis and only really watched it for McKay's rants but for all I like about it - I found it boring as hell.
I don't know what'll happen with the new series - but as said it doesn't have the audience Trek had and the ST franchise might find itself revived in a big way come May 2009. Even if it all goes tits up, it's still more than Stargate has.
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