How can Shatner be written into the film?

[Eddie Roth]

The facts are:

- Kirk died in GEN.
- Abrams & co. want Shatner in the new film.
- Shatner himself said he was "disappointed" that he wasn't in the script.

Which leads me to believe that a deal WILL be worked out and before filming begins the script will be rewritten to include Old Kirk in some fashion. The question is: How can TPTB get around the GEN death?

Surely, they can't devote the entire film to a Kirk resurrection story. I for one still think that any role for the old actors will be something like bigger cameos, no more than 10 minutes screentime in a 120-ish minute film. Besides, an apparent goal of TPTB seems to be to make a film that anybody can watch and get without any previous knowledge of Star Trek.

Could they pull off setting the Old Kirk/Old Spock segment right after the end of TUC when both characters still lived? Wouldn't this be wiser dramatically than cooking up the afore-mentioned resurrection story that might just take away from the First Adventure story? After all, Jonathan Frakes and Marina Sirtis (in 2005) played themselves ca. 1994 in the ENT finale and with a little suspension of disbelief, it half worked. Would they go down that route with Kirk?

What other ways short of resurrecting Kirk are there?

 

[theARE]

Maybe he can play Peter Kirk, James T's nephew.

Old Spock can tell him how he met his uncle.

 

[C.E. Evans]

Personally, I would simply gloss over the events in "Generations" and begin with Kirk meeting Spock as they currently are at some sort of conference or whatever:

Hypothetical scene:
KIRK: Aren't you dead?

SPOCK: I believe we've both died a number of times in the past, Jim...

And that would simply be it myself. The subject would never be mentioned again. Leave it to the imagination of the audience to figure out how Kirk came back and just move forward with the movie or framing story...

 

[Mr J]

I say don't bother. The continuity baggage is just too much to deal with IMO, especially considering that this movie is intended for the mass-audience who probably don't even know that Kirk is dead or what happened in 'Generations'. Also, personally I think that we as fans over-rate just how many people actually want to see Shatner as Kirk again - especially an old and past his prime one. I'm certainly not too bothered if either Shatner or Nimoy make an appearance in this movie.

If they do feature Shatner, then I hope they don't go for a pre-Generations era setting to avoid the issue. Shatner and Nimoy are just too old now and the suspension of disbelief would be far too much (and before anyone says it, age does matter with that sort of thing). Troi and Riker looked ridiculous in the ENT finale, and I believe that there are more creative ways to dance around Kirk's death in Generations. If Shatner has to be in it though, personally I would just ignore the continuity of Generations and feature old Kirk and Spock as if the death never happened. Take a new Doctor Who approach to the original continuity - ignore everything but the best bits.

 

[Basill]

Outside of using his voice for captain's logs or something, I just don't see it happening. Unless it actually is some sort of Spock on his deathbed thing and a glowing white ghost of Kirk is welcoming his Katra into the Nexus of the Afterlife. And then I'd just hurl.

 

[seigezunt]

C.E. Evans said:
Personally, I would simply gloss over the events in "Generations" and begin with Kirk meeting Spock as they currently are at some sort of conference or whatever:

Hypothetical scene:
KIRK: Aren't you dead?

SPOCK: I believe we've both died a number of times in the past, Jim...

And that would simply be it myself. The subject would never be mentioned again. Leave it to the imagination of the audience to figure out how Kirk came back and just move forward with the movie or framing story...

I actually like that. Easier that trying to shoehorn in the Shatnerverse or some such, which would be a whole film in itself (that no one would want to see outside of me and maybe 20 other people), and would be a good way to laugh off a truly terrible movie made in the past...

a hard call, this one. I was quite comfortable with the Shat not being in it, and I'm a little worried he's going to kill himself trying to slim down for this if they do indeed write him in. Again, I will be fascinated to see how tey accomplish this all...

 

[Superman]

Good way to go: find a creative way around GEN or ignore it completely (what I do with my own "personal canon")

Bad way to go: Ask the audience to believe that Kirk and Spock are fifteen years younger than they are courtesy of CGI de-aging.

What's the best story solution? As C.E. suggested, just have a line of dialogue acknowledging that Kirk was dead and Spock saved him.

Or even better, have the old Kirk and Spock part of the story take place on Earth a few days after he's been returned to life. No need to mention how it happened, just that Kirk is adjusting to being alive in a new century.

But even that's too dense story-wise.

I say just acknowledge it in passing and move on. Kirk's death in GEN was a huge mistake that should just be glossed over and forgotten anyway.

\S/

 

[chardman]

I'm aboard with this idea too.

I'd think the easiest way of dealing with it would be to use the "Superman Returns" method, and simply ignore that "Generations" and Kirk's death ever even happened. Simply strike those events from the timeline.

It wouldn't really conflict with any Trek films or television programs that happened later, because (iirc) none of the specific events of that film were ever really mentioned again.

Besides, "Generations" never properly fit into canon anyway because of TNG's depiction of Scotty in "Relics".

I say J.J. should just carry on as if "Generations" never happened, without any fanfare or explanation, and simply assume that his audience is smart enough to "get it".

 

[ancient]

I could see Kirk showing up at the very end without directly contradicting GEN:

SPOCK: I thought you were dead!

KIRK: Yeah, it was what, the fifth time I died? Pfft.
___________

Or if they want to go with an explanation:

KIRK: It was evil Kirk/Android Kirk/Alternate Universe Kirk/Other cliche, who died!

But I'd be just as happy not seeing him. I'm easy to please that way.

 

[Warp Coil]

I think that it's going to be really difficult to figure out how to work Shatner's Kirk into the story when we don't even know what the story is! What era is everything set in? What's the timeline? Obviously we're going to see Young Kirk and Spock in the 23rd century.... and we'll see old Spock at some point - late 23rd? Late 24th? Not really sure.

What if old Spock (Nimoy) has flashbacks to his earlier life? Couldn't there be a flashback involving older Kirk (Shatner)? There could be something pre-GEN I think if done right. Or what if older Spock, in the late 24th century, has a dream or vision of his long-dead friend?

I feel like there are options. But since we have no idea what's in the script, it's hard to speculate.

 

[LoneStranger]

Spock, who knows he is nearing the end of his life, finally goes back to the Veridian system to visit the resting place of his dear friend, Jim Kirk. But wait! The rocks have been moved? Kirk's not here? The nexus ribbon apparently altered something on the planet that healed Kirk's body and brought him back to life?

Spock proceedes to follow clues to track down his old friend. His travels send him across the galaxy, visiting places that had a large impact on their relationship. At these locations, while Spock is looking around, they can play small clips of audio from TOS epiosodes, like Spock was remembering.

In between travels, he flashes back to the days when they first met and the initial problem they faced. The flashbacks would actually be the majority of the movie, with all the action and tension. I won't bother to come up with what the problem they face is, except that it builds respect and trust between the two and showcases the younger crew.

And the clues finally lead him where? To that very location where they first met. Kirk is there, apparently waiting for Spock. They have a tender moment where they share their feelings of friendship. Movie ends with them staring off into a sunset, camera pans to space, then fades into the viewscreen on the U.S.S. Enterprise. Young Kirk, Spock & Co. are there, fresh off their first mission, while the young Kirk voice overs the "Space, the final frontier" spiel. Roll credits.

This doesn't ignore Generations, and actually uses that as a launching pad for the new one. The feelings we build up inside while watching Spock tracking down his old friend and thinking about their life together end up transfering over to the younger crew. It makes us see them as the same people and care for them the same.

 

[Zachary Smith]

There are several possibilities;

One is that is has been established that a mind-meld leaves both participants with a "piece" of the other's psyche. It would be very easy for Spock to have a "conversation" the aspect of Kirk which remains with him--I could see it being almost a kind of method of him dealing with Kirk's "death" a second time when he hears of the events on Veridian III. Clearly Spock believed Kirk died with the Enterprise B or he would have turned any stone to recover him from the Nexus. His shock at the realization that he had a chance for nearly 100 YEARS to rescue Kirk and simply failed to think it through could be devastating to Spock. He turns inward to revisit his old friend, old times and to have a kind of reckoning with Kirk to find absolution and resolution. Done properly, I think it could be extremely moving. The elements of friendship, loss, self-recrimination and a desire for absolution are so powerful here even I could write this film and make it work. There is also ample opportunity to tell the story of Kirk and Spock's "early days" as it's an obvious bookend to this frame-work of their "last meeting".

Another possibility would simply to have Spock die also, perhaps of old age at the end of the film, and we get a glimpse into the "afterlife" where he meets Kirk to embark on a journey to the literal "final frontier".

Actually, there's a lot of ways and structures that could be used. Spock could experience a near-fatal (or actually fatal) illness/accident and, without even realizing what has happened to him, embark on a review of lessons learned and the direction of his life with Kirk along-side like a guardian angel or spiritual "teacher", showing Spock various events in his life. Spock may realize only at the last that he has "died" and must make the choice to continue on with life, which means parting with Kirk once again, or to continue the voyage into the unknown with his friend. I'm sure he'd make the "logical" choice.

Frankly, it wouldn't be hard to come up with any number of stories that would allow Shatner as Kirk to appear and you don't have to undo the events of "Generations" or restore Kirk to life to make it happen.

 

[Aragorn]

Rocky Balboa never brought up the brain damage from Rocky V, but Stallone explained it by saying Rocky was simply going along with Adrianne's wishes and never got a second opinion that would've disproved the first diagnosis. So why not just say Kirk cheated death yet again after Generations with no explanation?

Or go with the Shatnerverse book explanation -- The Borg.

How about old Spock and Kirk sitting out on a balcony at night at Starfleet Headquarters, smoking cigars?

 

[fudgefase]

Now I realise that I have a serious problem with time travel and spacial anomalies, but once you're in the V-thingy (the energy wave that was going across the sky in the Gen film - I want to call it vortex or vector or something) don't you live in there forever. So in effect, isn't Kirk permanently alive in there - even though one of him 'came out' (so to speak) to save the world. If you went back in there, he'd still be there....

 

[fudgefase]

Nexus - that's the word. Sorry. Brain's going.

 

[nostradamus]

Here is a really bad idea: A Holodeck ... oh well, I surely hope they dont do that.

 

[The Mule]

C.E. Evans said:
Personally, I would simply gloss over the events in "Generations" and begin with Kirk meeting Spock as they currently are at some sort of conference or whatever:

Hypothetical scene:
KIRK: Aren't you dead?

SPOCK: I believe we've both died a number of times in the past, Jim...

And that would simply be it myself. The subject would never be mentioned again. Leave it to the imagination of the audience to figure out how Kirk came back and just move forward with the movie or framing story...

yeah, i had almost exactly the same idea after watch TWoK the other night. i just had the dialogue go:

Spock: Are you not dead?
Kirk (smirks): I got better.

 

[backstept]

fudgefase said:
Now I realise that I have a serious problem with time travel and spacial anomalies, but once you're in the V-thingy (the energy wave that was going across the sky in the Gen film - I want to call it vortex or vector or something) don't you live in there forever. So in effect, isn't Kirk permanently alive in there - even though one of him 'came out' (so to speak) to save the world. If you went back in there, he'd still be there....

yeah, didn't Guinan appear to Picard when he was in the nexus, even though she left it when the B rescued them?

 

[drasche]

Flashback is the worst idea. It's like saying Nimoy is the main character and Quinto only a shadow of the past. I don't believe it would be Abrams' intent.

I don't have anything against the fact that Nimoy will take part to the movie but to have him playing Spock in his old age is really a bad idea. Trek need a *fresh* start. (Leonard, I don't mean any disrespect )

 

[Zachary Smith]

backstept said:

fudgefase said:
Now I realise that I have a serious problem with time travel and spacial anomalies, but once you're in the V-thingy (the energy wave that was going across the sky in the Gen film - I want to call it vortex or vector or something) don't you live in there forever. So in effect, isn't Kirk permanently alive in there - even though one of him 'came out' (so to speak) to save the world. If you went back in there, he'd still be there....

yeah, didn't Guinan appear to Picard when he was in the nexus, even though she left it when the B rescued them?

I always found it interesting that Guinan's "reflection" of herself that Picard encountered talked to him as though she knew him, even though Guinan entered and left the Nexus LOOOong before she ever MET Picrd or, in fact, before he was even born.

And,of course by using the word "interesting" I mean "stupid".