How bad would it 've had to be 4 Picard 2 send Bozeman back?

[Guy Gardener]

A Picard with a falling down Federation around him, sent the Enteprise C back into the past to change everything. Was the present half way through the 5th season really that grand that a little renovation couldn't have been called for?

I mean the Cardassians were itching for a fight, they were between Borg invasions, barely recovered form the massacre at Wolf 359, and the death toll from the recent Klingon Civil War left the Alpha Quadrant open to all sorts of problems from opportunists trying to take advantage of that.

 

[od0_ital]

The big difference is that there was a way for the alternate Picard to send the E-C back to its timeframe. For the crew of the E-C, no time had passed, and when they went back, they were right where they started.

Once the E-D broke the loop, that was it. The Bozeman was there, in the 24th century with no way to go back. While they didn't know it, time had passed for them on the ship.

 

[SmoothieX]

Exactly - no convenient temporal vortex to send the ship back through. The Bozeman was here for good.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Re: How bad would it 've had to be 4 Picard 2 send Bozeman b

The Federation was sending back exploratory missions on purpose into Earths past as early as 2267. Assignment Earth.

They didn't have to send the Bozeman back the same way it arrived, and hell, it's odd given that they had the technology available and all while they were looking at mankinds twilight hours that they hadn't already sent people into the past to make things better.

 

[Crewman47]

Re: How bad would it 've had to be 4 Picard 2 send Bozeman b

I think it's been said before on here that it's odd that Starfleet forgot about the slingshot maneuver by the middle of the 24th century in situations like these.

 

[SmoothieX]

Re: How bad would it 've had to be 4 Picard 2 send Bozeman b

I always thought it was funny how whether you went clockwise or counterclockwise around the sun determined if you went back or forward in time.

 

[od0_ital]

Re: How bad would it 've had to be 4 Picard 2 send Bozeman b

Guy Gardener said:
The Federation was sending back exploratory missions on purpose into Earths past as early as 2267. Assignment Earth.

That was before the Temporal Prime Directive, which was probably put in place thanks to Kirk's trips into the past.

And, there's no way to know how the Bozeman's return to the late 23rd century would alter the future, which would make the admirals back at Starfleet Command a bit squeamish about sendin' 'em back. As far as they'd be concerned, everything turned out alright, for the most part, without the Bozeman - why send it back just to much things up?

 

[jayrath]

Re: How bad would it 've had to be 4 Picard 2 send Bozeman b

Who says the Bozeman wasn't sent back? (After the commercial break.)

No, I think the difference is going to the past. You can come back, with no change to the timeline. Vice versa, and you're in trouble.

 

[STIntergalactic]

Re: How bad would it 've had to be 4 Picard 2 send Bozeman b

I know I'll get rocks thrown at me for this, but....

The Bozeman was at the battle with the Borg at the beginning of First Contact, so we know it wasn't sent back.

 

[od0_ital]

Re: How bad would it 've had to be 4 Picard 2 send Bozeman b

And Kelsey Grammer did a voice cameo, too!

 

[Guy Gardener]

Re: How bad would it 've had to be 4 Picard 2 send Bozeman b

The highly contracted question at the top is... How bad would it have had to have been for Picard to Send the Bozeman back? How rooted by some war, how close to the brink, in the aftermath of some emotional tragedy... You saw beardy Riker in Parallels, he as good as committed suicide throwing himself against all those other Enterprises to stay in that universe rather than be returned to the hell where he belonged.

And Janeway didn't know about any temporal Prime Directive in Voy Relativity, that's the law form the 29th century Ducane taught Seven who blindsided Kathy. Although Bashir in Past Tense cited some equivalent ideas as regulations.

Things were going on in the fifth season, but they were just short of being uncontrolably disasterous right? Just how much of a little nudge towards the apocolypse would have been needed for Picard to throw the rules about time travel out the window just like the alternate version of him also did in yesterdays Enterprise?

 

[Vic Sixx]

Re: How bad would it 've had to be 4 Picard 2 send Bozeman b

Maybe that decision to stay or go back was left up to the Bozeman's Captain, I doubt Picard would have ordered him to stay if he didn't want to.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Re: How bad would it 've had to be 4 Picard 2 send Bozeman b

Oh no, I think they figured out, and said so on screen, that the Bozeman was supposed to be lost and the present as it stood was contingent on the Bozeman being missing lost.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Re: How bad would it 've had to be 4 Picard 2 send Bozeman b

Also, perhaps the Bozeman wasn't equipped to handle the stresses of the slingshot maneuver. It was just some piddly little frigate or something, wasn't it? Maybe ships that small would be destroyed if they tried.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Re: How bad would it 've had to be 4 Picard 2 send Bozeman b

The engineering of the Bozen was still a couple generations ahead of the constitution (first) refit of Enterprise, and to hear them talk about that Klingon ship, the only thing holding it together was the stench acting as airfix glue.

 

[Nebusj]

Re: How bad would it 've had to be 4 Picard 2 send Bozeman b

Crewman47 said:
I think it's been said before on here that it's odd that Starfleet forgot about the slingshot maneuver by the middle of the 24th century in situations like these.

They didn't: in ``Time Squared'' while discussing ways that the second Picard might have got back, Picard and Riker discuss whether it might have been through a slingshot around a star at warp. That seems like dangerous knowledge to hand out to everyone who reaches the rank of Commander, given the number of insane and traitorous Admirals the Federation has, but perhaps they don't pass out precise details. (After all, most anyone who wants to knows what makes an atom bomb work, but you have to be some kind of Boy Scout to actually build one.)

Interestingly, from the Original Series, it appears to be the sun's magnetic field that's the important element to the slingshot; gravity doesn't rate a mention as an important factor.

 

[Sec31Mike]

Re: How bad would it 've had to be 4 Picard 2 send Bozeman b

Gravity is the most important factor in the slingshot maneuver. As a star rotates it generates a gravity wave that travels in the same direction of the star's rotation.

Going with the current or against the current would determine the temporal direction, not clockwise or counter clockwise. A gravity wave is a distortion in the space-time continuum.

The application of a subspace field would be the catalyst for the temporal shift, high warp speed would be required for the desired subspace field.

I don't think the run of the mill Starfleet officer would have the knowledge tto actually implement the manuever, so knowledge of it wouldn't be so dangerous.

I don't think it there were any realistic options for Picard to send the Bozeman back.

 

[Nebusj]

Re: How bad would it 've had to be 4 Picard 2 send Bozeman b

Sec31Mike said:
Gravity is the most important factor in the slingshot maneuver. As a star rotates it generates a gravity wave that travels in the same direction of the star's rotation.

Going with the current or against the current would determine the temporal direction, not clockwise or counter clockwise. A gravity wave is a distortion in the space-time continuum.

That's all very clever and highly imaginative, but if you go by what is actually said on screen we have, according to Spock, who should have a fairly good idea what he's doing, that we ``fly toward the sun, seek out its magnetic attraction, then pull away at full power''. Not a word about gravity (although it's likely a factor since Spock aims for the Sun rather than Jupiter), nor about subspace, nor about clockwise nor counterclockwise stuff.

 

[Sec31Mike]

Re: How bad would it 've had to be 4 Picard 2 send Bozeman b

The understanding of cosmology is quite different in the late 60s from what it is now.

I am going by what I read in current cosmological theory. The most believable technobabble/very loose theory is what I used in my previous post to try to explain the slingshot maneuver.

The fact that it isn't real should be taken into considereation.