Hot Take: Ezri Dax and Jake Sisko are way more rounded characters than Chakotay, Kim and Mayweather

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by Abi Smith, Aug 7, 2019.

  1. NewHeavensNewEarth

    NewHeavensNewEarth Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    You must be a time traveler! :lol:
     
  2. Abi Smith

    Abi Smith Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    What I think we can all I agree on is that Ayala had more character growth than Travis Mayweather.
     
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  3. Terok Nor

    Terok Nor Commodore Commodore

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    I meant DS9 S7 Ep 2:lol:

    Also I don't think Discovery S7 exists in any future timeline:rommie:
     
  4. Infern0

    Infern0 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I shudder at the thought
     
  5. Tenacity

    Tenacity Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I don't know if it was intentional, but to me Chakotay usual come off as simply being calm and self-assured. It shouldn't be seen as a minus that he didn't flamboyantly chew the scenery whenever the camera was pointed at him.
     
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  6. Winterwind

    Winterwind Commodore Commodore

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    My wife and I did a re-watch of VOY a few months back and she asked me a few times why people are down on Chakotay.

    She found him, as I always did, as calm and self-assured with a very dry humour and as someone who enjoyed playing with your mind... he was good at toying with the crew when he felt like it... made Harry squirm a few times for example. And honestly, if push came to shove I'd want guys like Chakotay and Paris in my corner.
     
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  7. Prax

    Prax Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I totally disagree with "I don't blame the actors." The actor's performances inform how they will be written. In the case of Travis, and I feel really bad saying this, it was not the writing. Maybe he would do better in a different setting, but he simply couldn't convincingly pull off a scene. The few episodes that focus on his character make this so apparent. I hope he never reads this.

    The actors who played Jake and Kim have a similar effect, but not nearly as severe. They were mostly just "fine." Kim is usually outshined by Paris, and Jake by Not. There are limits to what the writers can do with their characters(especially Travis).

    The actress who plays Ezri is a genuinely good actress. She doesn't get as much development as Chakotay, but she only had a year. Chakotay was also played by a strong actor, and despite what is commonly said, he actually got quite a bit of attention throughout the series(Just not as much as Janeway, or the Doctor). And while Jadzia had her moments, I would put Chakotay a little bit above her. There are some actors where you never(or at least very rarely) feel like they're reading a script, like Patrick Stewart, or Bob Picardo. Then there are others where you always feel like they're reading a script, like the actor who plays Travis Merriweather. Then there are some where it depends on the scene or episode, like Ferrell or Beltran. I give Beltran the edge because for Ferrell it seems to be ability, while for Beltran, it seems to be motivation.

    Anyways, a writer can't make a good performance. It takes more than a good script to make a good character. Stewart could make even bad episodes seem good. And other actors can make good stories seem like bad episodes.
     
  8. Tenacity

    Tenacity Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Hard to tell given he was so rarely provided with lines. I saw Anthony Montgomery on General Hospital for years playing a psychiatrist, and he played a engaging character. The scripts allowed him to showcase his talent.
     
  9. Unimatrix Q

    Unimatrix Q Captain Captain

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    Beside the doctor, Seven and maybe Tom Paris, none of the characters on Voyager had much of a development.

    That's one of the reasons why it's my least favorite Trek show.

    I like Discovery much much more, because even if the bridge crew hasn't so much to do as the ones in previous iterations of Star Trek, there are hints of character development if one looks closer at what is happening in the scenes. And of cause the focus on Michael Burnham brings with it another perspective than the one we know from the earlier ensemble driven shows.
     
  10. BillJ

    BillJ History’s Greatest Monster Premium Member

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    Unfortunately Burnham ended up being a poorly thought out, poorly written character for most of the first two seasons.
     
  11. Delta Vega

    Delta Vega Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I always thought that Chakotay, or should I say, Beltran, looked like he was going through the motions a little
    As if he knew there would be no major character development for him, so he didn't give a shit.
     
  12. Eyemorg

    Eyemorg Ensign Red Shirt

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    On the whole, all the DS9 characters had the chance to develop. After bingeing TNG and then DS9, nothing about the first episode of VOY made me care enough to watch the rest of that series.

    As for Disco, I watched it out of duty, but that series seems to be all bout them special FX yo, with some soap-opera level writing to pad them out.
     
  13. suarezguy

    suarezguy Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Chakotay isn't that bad, underused and often pretty bland but also some good episodes and moments, usually at least OK when he gets the spotlight and with fine relationships with the other characters. Kim got a small handful of good episodes, many bad ones, but that may be better (or may not) than Ezri's record, her best episodes/roles in episodes were only OK and she was also too often annoying especially with her overdone mixing-up of personas and pushiness with/distaste for Worf.

    Jake had a personality, character, but it wasn't particularly deep, I'd say he and Chakotay and Kim are pretty much tied.

    Mayweather yes is pretty firmly near or at the worst.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2019
  14. Kytee

    Kytee Commander Red Shirt

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    I always felt Chakotay's commitment to combining the crews was and support Janeway was a wonderful early character development . It was the best choice for the survival of of his crew; and I felt it reflected well on him that his crew would accept this decision. He interacted well with both crews and was a good bridge between Maquis and Star Fleet

    Years after VOY was off the air I read an interview where Beltran talked about how he felt that in the later seasons Chakotay devolved into a background character with generic lines about raising shields and such; I would imagine it would be difficult to remain passionate about a role if he felt that way.
     
  15. eschaton

    eschaton Commodore Commodore

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    He openly has admitted that by the end he wouldn't even bother reading the script for the week besides his lines. Meaning he didn't really go into each episode with an understanding of what the story was/what his motivation would be. He memorized his lines, came in, got filmed, and went home.
     
  16. Prax

    Prax Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Unless he was the star of the episode, then he cared
     
  17. JonnyQuest037

    JonnyQuest037 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I wouldn't say that was a hot take. At best, it's a room temperature take.