I assume the show will simply start cutting back on holographic communications, but we'll still see the occasional holographic displays when it comes to analyzing something.
Holographic Technology in Discovery
- Thread starter Jedman67
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I remember the one in the short Runaway when Tilly was talking to her mother, but were there any in the regular episodes yet?
I agree that the producers might be intentionally cutting back on the use of the holographic communication, and Pike’s line about ripping them out was meant to parrot that reduction in use by the show itself.
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Burnham and Tyler
What I like about the holograms in DSC is the diversity.
- We see full-body holocommunications of Star Wars graininess, only with extra jerkiness.
- We see 2D screens with the face of the discussion partner bulging out from the flat panel.
- We see perfect freestanding mirror images
- We see fairly good 3D interactive environments with at least some tactile feedback.
- We see both 3D and 2D displaying of abstract'ish information, in both freestanding and screen-embedded form.
- We see holographic camouflage that can convincingly alter the wearer's face, at least in dark places and under a hood.
- We see traditional 2D communications screens and hear nonvisual communications.
- We even see direct-neural-stimulation recordings of earlier communications apparently involving a freestanding 2D projection. How cool is that!
There's no single "This is how we do holograms in DSC" thing going on, nothing we could zero in on and declare contrary to precedent or the pseudohistorical flow of things. On top of that, we get explicit user preferences, including a main character who is opposed to holocomms the way weirdos in the 24th century oppose replicators. Diversity is good in fictional realities, and here DSC does exceptionally well.
Now if only every user interface weren't dependent on blue LEDs...
Timo Saloniemi
- We see full-body holocommunications of Star Wars graininess, only with extra jerkiness.
- We see 2D screens with the face of the discussion partner bulging out from the flat panel.
- We see perfect freestanding mirror images
- We see fairly good 3D interactive environments with at least some tactile feedback.
- We see both 3D and 2D displaying of abstract'ish information, in both freestanding and screen-embedded form.
- We see holographic camouflage that can convincingly alter the wearer's face, at least in dark places and under a hood.
- We see traditional 2D communications screens and hear nonvisual communications.
- We even see direct-neural-stimulation recordings of earlier communications apparently involving a freestanding 2D projection. How cool is that!
There's no single "This is how we do holograms in DSC" thing going on, nothing we could zero in on and declare contrary to precedent or the pseudohistorical flow of things. On top of that, we get explicit user preferences, including a main character who is opposed to holocomms the way weirdos in the 24th century oppose replicators. Diversity is good in fictional realities, and here DSC does exceptionally well.
Now if only every user interface weren't dependent on blue LEDs...
Timo Saloniemi
We know however from the Animated Series, which CBS seemingly considers canon now, that there was a full-fledged holographic Rec Room about the NCC-1701. This points to the fact that despite many saying Discovery is more advanced than the Enterprise, the Enterprise always had holograhic tech, that was even more advanced than Discovery's, and just chose not to use it on the bridge. They kept it for entertainment purposes.
And in a way, this might make sense. Starfleet is a military organization on a budget. In the real world, we don't put webcams in our offices for day to day use most of the time, we still have the primitive phone. Which brings into mind another consideration--many alien races that Starfleet encounters may not have holographic tech. So Starfleet is basically wasting all those resources just to have a fancy way to talk to themselves.
I'm guessing Starfleet relegated the holographic tech to entertainment purposes the way most real world office computers don't have webcams or virtual reality headsets.
Timeline-wise, we can easily claim we see a steady progression in the quality of holoentertainment in the UFP.
1) In ENT in the 2150s, the players who will soon be part of the UFP possess fairly rudimentary holograms: Starfleet has 3D target practice projections, a Vulcan criminal has access to a high resolution holocamouflage wall and a small fuzzy 3D family photo projection, and all the rest is in the hands of advanced and secretive aliens.
2) In DSC in the 2250s, we see the goods listed above. The one major improvement in quality is the holomirror tech, which looks as good as Menos' holowall in "The Seventh", but also perfectly mimics a moving humanoid. We are still sort of in the dark on whether the tactical holotraining program had this level of visual quality (literally - the darkness would have obscured the lack of detail), we don't know whether the rudimentary tactile aspects (Tyler can lean on a wall and slap on a door control) were absent from the holowall, and we see too little movement there to decide whether there's any treadmill action involved.
3) In TOS in the 2260s, we never see UFP holograms. Or then we fail to recognize those for what they are if we see the holomirror tech in use: things represented by real props and actors could be holomirrors instead. All sorts of aliens use holoprojections, though, and the heroes retain their cool in face of those.
4) In TAS in the late 2260s, we see the next iteration of the holodeck type of simulation. We get confirmation for tactile feedback, temperature control and treadmill action, including vertical action. The facility also succeeds in projecting the visual illusion of vast spaces, unlike the DSC tactical simulation. We have no idea whether the visuals are smooth or cartoony, though, and McCoy thinks it natural that the machinery would make whirring/giggling sounds when adjusting. All other holodeck is either absent or in the hands of non-UFP aliens. For the first time, we see a bit of civilian life, though - we peek into Spock's childhood home, which in DSC had holotech but here reveals none.
5) In TOS movies in the 2270s, 2280s and 2290s, there is zero hologram action, for whatever reason. Except for one tabletop game in ST3, and the usual caveat for real-seeming things being holographic.
6) In the TNG era, holograms in entertainment are constantly referred to in terms of their improving quality, although the audience fails to spot any improvement (naturally, because the show portrays holograms through reality, while the audience sees the result through television, so a lot of information is lost there). Most holoaction is confined to specific holodecks, perhaps because the modern user craves for the extra features of tactile perfection, temporarily replicated props and whatnot; tabletop holograms are on their way out. Holocomms, now with holomirror-like perfection, make a comeback instead.
The "progression" with its ups and downs is close enough to tango in comparison to the progression of real-world entertainment or communication technologies and practices. IMHO.
TImo Saloniemi
1) In ENT in the 2150s, the players who will soon be part of the UFP possess fairly rudimentary holograms: Starfleet has 3D target practice projections, a Vulcan criminal has access to a high resolution holocamouflage wall and a small fuzzy 3D family photo projection, and all the rest is in the hands of advanced and secretive aliens.
2) In DSC in the 2250s, we see the goods listed above. The one major improvement in quality is the holomirror tech, which looks as good as Menos' holowall in "The Seventh", but also perfectly mimics a moving humanoid. We are still sort of in the dark on whether the tactical holotraining program had this level of visual quality (literally - the darkness would have obscured the lack of detail), we don't know whether the rudimentary tactile aspects (Tyler can lean on a wall and slap on a door control) were absent from the holowall, and we see too little movement there to decide whether there's any treadmill action involved.
3) In TOS in the 2260s, we never see UFP holograms. Or then we fail to recognize those for what they are if we see the holomirror tech in use: things represented by real props and actors could be holomirrors instead. All sorts of aliens use holoprojections, though, and the heroes retain their cool in face of those.
4) In TAS in the late 2260s, we see the next iteration of the holodeck type of simulation. We get confirmation for tactile feedback, temperature control and treadmill action, including vertical action. The facility also succeeds in projecting the visual illusion of vast spaces, unlike the DSC tactical simulation. We have no idea whether the visuals are smooth or cartoony, though, and McCoy thinks it natural that the machinery would make whirring/giggling sounds when adjusting. All other holodeck is either absent or in the hands of non-UFP aliens. For the first time, we see a bit of civilian life, though - we peek into Spock's childhood home, which in DSC had holotech but here reveals none.
5) In TOS movies in the 2270s, 2280s and 2290s, there is zero hologram action, for whatever reason. Except for one tabletop game in ST3, and the usual caveat for real-seeming things being holographic.
6) In the TNG era, holograms in entertainment are constantly referred to in terms of their improving quality, although the audience fails to spot any improvement (naturally, because the show portrays holograms through reality, while the audience sees the result through television, so a lot of information is lost there). Most holoaction is confined to specific holodecks, perhaps because the modern user craves for the extra features of tactile perfection, temporarily replicated props and whatnot; tabletop holograms are on their way out. Holocomms, now with holomirror-like perfection, make a comeback instead.
The "progression" with its ups and downs is close enough to tango in comparison to the progression of real-world entertainment or communication technologies and practices. IMHO.
TImo Saloniemi
I did really like the holocomms in season one. The way they glitched and spazzed, my favourite being when the USS Europa was hit and the admiral spun around a little. My thought was, these people have played glitchy videogames
Best use of all goes to "Calypso", which holographically transformed the entire front of the bridge. That was spectacular, seeing old footage made 3D and projected.
Best use of all goes to "Calypso", which holographically transformed the entire front of the bridge. That was spectacular, seeing old footage made 3D and projected.
What continuity issues specifically? When has it ever been established that holographic communication wasn't around in the 23rd century? People often refer to O'Brien installing new holo communicators on the Defiant but that doesn't mean the technology itself is new just the specific equipment that got installed. It's like me saying "my new oven is awesome, it can do this and that and blablabla", doesn't mean ovens have just been invented.
Maybe holo communication is a fad that comes and goes every few decades kinda like 3D movies, it's an ass old technology but when Avatar came along everyone acted like it was the second coming of christ himself and now it's back to a gimmick very few people care about.
We even see it in DS9, they introduce it and half a season later it's back to "on screen" and the holo communicators are just gone.
TOS basically just showed five starfleet ships and only one of them extensively, holographic communication could very well be widely used during that time. We tend to think of the Enterprise as the standard but maybe she was the exception.
Wishing I never said it. The OP doesn't want the thread to be about continuity. There are dozens of threads about that side of it.
Well, how about continuity within the series? I'm still waiting for the moment where one of the characters themselves is fooled by a hologram... Hasn't happened yet, even though we have seen utterly perfect and convincing projections (that is, real props and people filmed and then retroactively established as holograms by making them disappear or whatever).
Continuity within series also affects Pike's predisposition towards flat comms. Two characters have remarked upon that, and a third is supposed to think the same. But Lorca did flatscreen comms more often than not, too. Was Lorca another exception to the all-holo rule, or an example of the both-ways-are-fine majority, or what?
Holocomms tend to involve people standing up in order to talk. How many ITRW would be bothered to do that? Lorca seemed to object to chairs in general. Pike likes to sit down, though, even during tense moments of action on the bridge. Is there a connection?
Timo Saloniemi
Continuity within series also affects Pike's predisposition towards flat comms. Two characters have remarked upon that, and a third is supposed to think the same. But Lorca did flatscreen comms more often than not, too. Was Lorca another exception to the all-holo rule, or an example of the both-ways-are-fine majority, or what?
Holocomms tend to involve people standing up in order to talk. How many ITRW would be bothered to do that? Lorca seemed to object to chairs in general. Pike likes to sit down, though, even during tense moments of action on the bridge. Is there a connection?
Timo Saloniemi
Yes, I remember now. Thanks!
Artistically, the ghostly image of the scenery around Fred Astaire and Audrey Hepburn made a far greater impact than if it were a perfect "solid and realistic" projection.
If they would have made Craft and Zora look as through they were really in the "solid" movie scene, that would not have been as effective and touching of a scene.
And of course they could have - they would simply have reshot the scene in a recreated set. Just some fake grass and flowers and a sunshiney matte on the background; it's a cheap shot, literally.
Which has always been a key issue with Star Trek holograms: making them less than perfect costs an awful lot of money and rendering time, when due to production realities they are perfect by default initially (that is, mere ordinary acted scenes that are established in dialogue to be "holograms"). DSC is basically the first-ever Trek incarnation, the movies included, that can afford to show imperfect holograms.
Timo Saloniemi
Which has always been a key issue with Star Trek holograms: making them less than perfect costs an awful lot of money and rendering time, when due to production realities they are perfect by default initially (that is, mere ordinary acted scenes that are established in dialogue to be "holograms"). DSC is basically the first-ever Trek incarnation, the movies included, that can afford to show imperfect holograms.
Timo Saloniemi
TNG generally used digital compositing in its infancy, DS9 and VOY were able to take advantage of digital editing more robustly and were therefore able to use special effects better and cheaper. But as we see from transporter effects and Odo morphing, the ability to make holograms look artificial was there and doable. Maybe not cheap, but not prohibitive either.
So far, DSC has shown very few instances where holograms are meant to appear "real" to the characters - where MU Lorca finds MU Stamets hiding behind a holographic wall is one example.
Overall, holographic communication in DSC is meant to look partially transparent, as In "The Vulcan Hello" where Burnham holds an entire conversation with Holographic Sarek, or the finale when the Starfleet Chiefs of Staff hold conference with Saru and Cornwell.
You can convey more information in 3 dimensions than one but that doesn't always mean its preferable or better.
The Incans seem to have developed a 3 dimensional alternatives to writing using a special system of knots on strings, called Quipu. Nevertheless, they also seem to have been the only civilization that bothered trying. 2d writing is still in use and doesn't seem to be in danger of going away any time soon.
The Incans seem to have developed a 3 dimensional alternatives to writing using a special system of knots on strings, called Quipu. Nevertheless, they also seem to have been the only civilization that bothered trying. 2d writing is still in use and doesn't seem to be in danger of going away any time soon.
Maybe Holocoms will be found to have an insecure backdoor and not be used until the 24th century?
Which they seem to be addressing with the technical difficulties holotech generated on the Enterprise.
Where they once again are found to be unstable, lead to evil sentient AI's and at best provide a source of free mining labor in the form of retired EMH Mk 1s
And then promptly discontinued again. It makes perfect sense!
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