Hippocratic Oath

[ReadyAndWilling]

Did anyone else find this to be a real head turner in the perception of the Jem'Hadar? Whoever played Garanga did a marvelous job.

My favorite quote:



"I have fought against races that believe in mythical beings that guide their destinies and await them after death. They call them gods ... The Founders are like gods to the Jem'Hadar. But our gods never talk to us, and they don't wait for us after death. They only want us to fight for them... and to die for them."




Easily one of the best episodes IMO.

 

[Pemmer Harge]

This is one of my favourites too. I especially loved the strain it put on the relationship between Bashir and O'Brien.

 

[Sykonee]

If anything, it was an important episode for Bashir, as it was one of the earliest examples of them trying to break his somewhat optimistically naive outlook on life.

 

[neozeks]

Did anyone else find this to be a real head turner in the perception of the Jem'Hadar? Whoever played Garanga did a marvelous job.

My favorite quote:



"I have fought against races that believe in mythical beings that guide their destinies and await them after death. They call them gods ... The Founders are like gods to the Jem'Hadar. But our gods never talk to us, and they don't wait for us after death. They only want us to fight for them... and to die for them."




Easily one of the best episodes IMO.

Garanga? Actually it's Goran'Agar, IIRC.
But yeah, this episode is one of the underrated jems of DS9. It turned the Jems from standard evil soldiers to something more complex. That line you quoted still sends shivers down my spine. Something about the way he tells it and the music in the background...
I also like: 'You are a soldier?', 'I've been one','Then you explain'. Actually, almost any Goran'Agar's line is great. You can see the killing instinct and conditioning inside him, but even with that you feel a sense of respect and honour about him.

 

[Marie1]

Did anyone else find this to be a real head turner in the perception of the Jem'Hadar? Whoever played Garanga did a marvelous job.

My favorite quote:



"I have fought against races that believe in mythical beings that guide their destinies and await them after death. They call them gods ... The Founders are like gods to the Jem'Hadar. But our gods never talk to us, and they don't wait for us after death. They only want us to fight for them... and to die for them."




Easily one of the best episodes IMO.

Goron'agar was played by Scott MacDonald- a fantastic actor who also played Tosk in DS9; he's also been in TNG, VOY and ENT.

I wouldn't call it a head-turner for me personally because I liked them from the moment I saw them in the Jem'Hadar. But I'm glad they went that direction, showing how much they're individuals, how they can survive off-White, how some will try to be free, instead of the viewer just hoping...

 

[PorthosShadow]

The highlight of this episode was the strained relationship between Bashier and O'Brien but I did like the fresh take on the Jem'hadar which unfortunately didn't really go anywhere in the series. If DS9 had one big failing, it was the Jem'Hadar mostly being portrayed as mindless soldiers which is what they were bred for.

However, episodes like the aforementioned "Hippocratic Oath", "To The Death", "The Abandoned" & "Rocks & Shoals" did attempt to expand The Jem'Hadar beyond that mindless soldier template. I wish TPTB had done more to expand the Jem'Hadar like in HO.

 

[DS9forever]

Hippocratic Oath is an excellent episode. Its also the first episode where ketracel-white is mentioned by its actual name isn't it? I always thought it was a cool sounding name and its reference in the bland Star Trek: Insurrection didn't go unnoticed by myself.

 

[PorthosShadow]

Hippocratic Oath is an excellent episode. Its also the first episode where ketracel-white is mentioned by its actual name isn't it? I always thought it was a cool sounding name and its reference in the bland Star Trek: Insurrection didn't go unnoticed by myself.

Yeah because in "The Abandoned" they do find the subtance among the wreckage where the infinate Jem'Hadar was found but obviously they didn't have a name for it and you're right, that is a pretty cool name. Also, I am a fan of "Star Trek: Insurection" but I did notice that Riker didn't seem to understand the importance of Ketracel White which kind of bugs me.

Maybe he just didn't read his e-mail yet or the security briefing attachment was sent to his junk mail folder instead

 

[T'Girl]

Was Star Trek: Insurection set before or after Hippocratic Oath. I never have figured out between which two DS9 episodes that movie was suppose to have happen.

 

[neozeks]

Was Star Trek: Insurection set before or after Hippocratic Oath. I never have figured out between which two DS9 episodes that movie was suppose to have happen.

I think it's supposed to be somewhere in season 7 of DS9. Though you couldn't tell from the movie that there is a massive war going on at that same moment. That's why I like to pretend it's actually set after the war.

 

[PorthosShadow]

Was Star Trek: Insurection set before or after Hippocratic Oath. I never have figured out between which two DS9 episodes that movie was suppose to have happen.

I think it's supposed to be somewhere in season 7 of DS9. Though you couldn't tell from the movie that there is a massive war going on at that same moment. That's why I like to pretend it's actually set after the war.

In truth, there is probably a logistical story reason why The Enterprise-E isn't on the front lines of the war. If you do that then the writers on DS9 have to work it or similarly the writers of the ST:I have consider DS9 and all their potentional story lines.

 

[ReadyAndWilling]

Was Star Trek: Insurection set before or after Hippocratic Oath. I never have figured out between which two DS9 episodes that movie was suppose to have happen.

I think it's supposed to be somewhere in season 7 of DS9. Though you couldn't tell from the movie that there is a massive war going on at that same moment. That's why I like to pretend it's actually set after the war.

An ST movie based on the Dominion War would have been epic. Even if it wasn't based around DS9. Imagine having the Enterprise E in the battles.

 

[Marie1]

The highlight of this episode was the strained relationship between Bashier and O'Brien but I did like the fresh take on the Jem'hadar which unfortunately didn't really go anywhere in the series. If DS9 had one big failing, it was the Jem'Hadar mostly being portrayed as mindless soldiers which is what they were bred for.

However, episodes like the aforementioned "Hippocratic Oath", "To The Death", "The Abandoned" & "Rocks & Shoals" did attempt to expand The Jem'Hadar beyond that mindless soldier template. I wish TPTB had done more to expand the Jem'Hadar like in HO.

I think it tried to portray them in "one off" episodes as complex individuals-- they had quite a few episodes where we got to know many individuals with many opinions, on par I think with the Bajorans, Cardassians etc. almost! But to a point, the show got pulled in many directions, the war had to end... and that became the focus... so we get neat fodder for post lit.

 

[Navaros]

Hippocratic Oath is definitely a masterpiece of an episode. Top 10, or at least Top 15 material, for sure.

The best part is how the writers for once don't try to ramrod their opinion about what is right down the viewer's throat (as is done so often in Trek, especially in TNG), but instead let him make up his own mind.

 

[I am not Spock]

Hippocratic Oath is an excellent episode. Its also the first episode where ketracel-white is mentioned by its actual name isn't it? I always thought it was a cool sounding name and its reference in the bland Star Trek: Insurrection didn't go unnoticed by myself.

Yeah because in "The Abandoned" they do find the subtance among the wreckage where the infinate Jem'Hadar was found but obviously they didn't have a name for it and you're right, that is a pretty cool name. Also, I am a fan of "Star Trek: Insurection" but I did notice that Riker didn't seem to understand the importance of Ketracel White which kind of bugs me.

Maybe he just didn't read his e-mail yet or the security briefing attachment was sent to his junk mail folder instead

Yeah, I wondered why Riker didn't say 'Woah, wait a minute, why the hell are the Federation dealing with Dominion allies?' It didn't make much sense. Especially if INS is set during DS9 season 7.

 

[I am not Spock]

The highlight of this episode was the strained relationship between Bashier and O'Brien but I did like the fresh take on the Jem'hadar which unfortunately didn't really go anywhere in the series. If DS9 had one big failing, it was the Jem'Hadar mostly being portrayed as mindless soldiers which is what they were bred for.

However, episodes like the aforementioned "Hippocratic Oath", "To The Death", "The Abandoned" & "Rocks & Shoals" did attempt to expand The Jem'Hadar beyond that mindless soldier template. I wish TPTB had done more to expand the Jem'Hadar like in HO.

I think it tried to portray them in "one off" episodes as complex individuals-- they had quite a few episodes where we got to know many individuals with many opinions, on par I think with the Bajorans, Cardassians etc. almost! But to a point, the show got pulled in many directions, the war had to end... and that became the focus... so we get neat fodder for post lit.

Hmm. I agree. DS9 did try to show compelling Jem Hadar characters, but only in 'one off' episodes, like Goran'Agar, or the guy in 'To The Death' or the one in Rocks and Shoals. We never really got the chance to get to know one of them, like we did with Dukat, Damar, etc.