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Highly Illogical - Part One

GornGenius

Cadet
Newbie
Subject: The Borg

Despite Q's assertions that the Borg are "relentless," and those by Captain Picard (as quoted by Captain Janeway) that the Borg are "utterly without mercy," the Borg do seem to enjoy giving the races they assimilate a sporting chance at survival, with a particular soft spot for the Federation.

How else do you explain the fact that they failed to invade the Federation, not only once, but a total of three times?

The first supposed encounter with the Borg occurred in "Q Who."

But...wait a minute. What about those mysterious outposts that disappeared along the Neutral Zone in the aptly titled episode, "The Neutral Zone?" Didn't Worf say in that episode that "it's as though some great force just scooped it off the face of the planet?"
And later, during "Q Who," he makes an almost identical statement about the ravaged planet they find in system J25. Not only that, but Data specifically notes that it is "identical to what happened along the outposts in the Neutral zone."
But that would mean...(gasp!) that the Borg was already present in Federation space, busy assimilating outposts and doing...nothing?? First invasion, failed. Cause? Borg laziness.
:brickwall:

So, instead of having their presence already in the Federation do a nice, neat, dare I say "efficient" invasion, they send their invading force 7,000 light years to reach Earth.

Okay, barring that horrible waste of time and resources, we recall what Guinan says in "Q Who."
In that episode, Guinan states that when the Borg destroyed her people, "they swarmed through our system," and "when they come, they're going to come in force. They don't do anything peacemeal."

An now, here we are, one year later at "The Best of Both Worlds", and the grand Borg invasion (second wave, mind you) consists of....one ship. One?? They couldn't spare oh, I dunno, two?

Considering one ship nearly kills the entire Federation, you'd think the Borg would have adapted (that is what they do, after all) and sent a friggin' ARMADA of cubes to wipe the annoying Alpha Quadrant species out once and for all.

But no. The second invasion consists of (drum roll please) one ship! Even watching "First Contact" in the theater, I was cocking my head and making noises like a confused Scooby Doo.

And what brilliant plan does a race of billions with a collective consciousness working on this problem come up with?
"Let's not send more ships, oh no! That's too easy! Let's send a special time-warping sphere!"

So..let me get this straight: You are only interested in species because they have technology you want to assimilate. So your solution to a stubbornly resistant species is to go back in time, where the technology you want doesn't even exist yet, and THEN assimilate everyone. :brickwall:

Oh, and let's not ignore the fact that by making the Borg have a central command processor in the form of a "queen" you basically destroy their whole philosophy of maximum redundancy and collective consciousness without "single leaders who can make mistakes, which is far less likely in the combined whole." Borgies, you're being outsmarted by a half-telepathic shrink. Think about it.

Here's some suggestions I would humbly like to make to the Borg Collective:
1. When you assimilate races with cloaking devices (which presumably exist outside of the Romulan and Klingon Empires somewhere in the galaxy), KEEP THEM.

2. When you assimilate telepathic races, since you have genetic modification technology, maybe you should equip all of your drones with that. Think about it - an entire cube full of Borg who can project their thoughts into the minds of their targets.
Borg: Resistance is futile.
Victim: ....yes...master...

3. You have nanotechnology. That pretty much makes you invincible. Which is more efficient - injecting nanoprobes physically underneath the skin, or creating a nanoprobe "dirty bomb" that you transport over to the target vessel, releasing nanoprobes into the air, thus assimilating an entire ship from the inside out without a single drone being lost?

It is logical to assume that, if I can come up with these ideas without the input of a billion other minds from over 8,000 species (according to Voyager), then they must have as well, and rejected them.

Therefore, the Borg enjoy their sport of assimilation and cannot possibly assimilate the Federation or anyone who's closely associated with the Federation because...um...they're just too cool?

And because they all think Captain Picard is sexy and they want him? (The Borg Queen wanted Picard as a counterpart, and since she IS the Collective, Picard was instantly the most wanted man in the history of everything. We're talking billions, maybe trillions of Borg drones all with the Borg Queen's infatuation.) :drool:

That is all for this first post of my "Highly Illogical" critiques of the Next Generation. More to come. :devil:
 
Therefore, the Borg enjoy their sport of assimilation and cannot possibly assimilate the Federation or anyone who's closely associated with the Federation because...um...they're just too cool?
Considering Q's involvement, it wouldn't be surprising to learn that one or more of the evolved races (the aforementioned Q, the Douwd, the Organians, etc.), having taken an especial interest in humanity because of our "potential," subtly (or not-so-subtly) prevent the Borg from overwhelming the Federation.

Cases in point:
  • The Organians curtailed what clearly would have become a devastating war between the Federation and the Klingon Empire
  • Q went out of his way to warn the UFP about the Borg
  • The Douwd, in his anger at the loss of his human wife, eliminated an entire race of powerful, hostile aliens, the Husnak
In short, beings with such power exist, and are beneficently disposed to humanity. Thus, this conclusion is not unreasonable, especially considering TNG's thematic leanings.

Whether, however, a series of dei ex machina are unsatisfying, in a literary sense, is another matter. :)
 
GornGenius said:
Subject: The Borg

Despite Q's assertions that the Borg are "relentless," and those by Captain Picard (as quoted by Captain Janeway) that the Borg are "utterly without mercy," the Borg do seem to enjoy giving the races they assimilate a sporting chance at survival, with a particular soft spot for the Federation.

How else do you explain the fact that they failed to invade the Federation, not only once, but a total of three times?

The first supposed encounter with the Borg occurred in "Q Who."

But...wait a minute. What about those mysterious outposts that disappeared along the Neutral Zone in the aptly titled episode, "The Neutral Zone?" Didn't Worf say in that episode that "it's as though some great force just scooped it off the face of the planet?"
And later, during "Q Who," he makes an almost identical statement about the ravaged planet they find in system J25. Not only that, but Data specifically notes that it is "identical to what happened along the outposts in the Neutral zone."
But that would mean...(gasp!) that the Borg was already present in Federation space, busy assimilating outposts and doing...nothing?? First invasion, failed. Cause? Borg laziness.
:brickwall:

That may not have been an invasion at all, but rather a long range explorer seeking out possible races for further study, to determine if they are worthy of full assimilation, taking the species and its technology, or one or the other but not both. By that I mean the species may have a high level of technology the Borg could find useful, but the species is frail and useless as drones; or low technology but highly useful as drones.

GornGenius said:
So, instead of having their presence already in the Federation do a nice, neat, dare I say "efficient" invasion, they send their invading force 7,000 light years to reach Earth.

Okay, barring that horrible waste of time and resources, we recall what Guinan says in "Q Who."
In that episode, Guinan states that when the Borg destroyed her people, "they swarmed through our system," and "when they come, they're going to come in force. They don't do anything peacemeal."

An now, here we are, one year later at "The Best of Both Worlds", and the grand Borg invasion (second wave, mind you) consists of....one ship. One?? They couldn't spare oh, I dunno, two?

This second wave, may not have been a second wave at all, but the same ship the Enterprise D met at system J25. It's objective would have been to determine the Federations full technological capacity. To see if it is worth taking for both its technology and drone worthiness or just one or the other. I think it was determined that humans made better drones and that their technology was not critical to the Borg.

GornGenius said:
Considering one ship nearly kills the entire Federation, you'd think the Borg would have adapted (that is what they do, after all) and sent a friggin' ARMADA of cubes to wipe the annoying Alpha Quadrant species out once and for all.

But no. The second invasion consists of (drum roll please) one ship! Even watching "First Contact" in the theater, I was cocking my head and making noises like a confused Scooby Doo.

And what brilliant plan does a race of billions with a collective consciousness working on this problem come up with?
"Let's not send more ships, oh no! That's too easy! Let's send a special time-warping sphere!"

So..let me get this straight: You are only interested in species because they have technology you want to assimilate. So your solution to a stubbornly resistant species is to go back in time, where the technology you want doesn't even exist yet, and THEN assimilate everyone. :brickwall:

Again, I think they determined humans made better drones. Human physiology hadn't changed from the time of First Contact to the time sphere so assimilation in the past would give the Borg drones and a base in the Alpha Quadrant from which they could assimilate the other less advanced species.

GornGenius said:
Oh, and let's not ignore the fact that by making the Borg have a central command processor in the form of a "queen" you basically destroy their whole philosophy of maximum redundancy and collective consciousness without "single leaders who can make mistakes, which is far less likely in the combined whole." Borgies, you're being outsmarted by a half-telepathic shrink. Think about it.

The Queen is the personification of the Collective, the "One Who is Many". She is the Collective and the Collective is her. When one Queen is destroyed or damaged a new one comes online to be the Collective Personified. I would think that the Borg are most vulnerable during the time between one Queen dying and the other comming online.

GornGenius said:
Here's some suggestions I would humbly like to make to the Borg Collective:
1. When you assimilate races with cloaking devices (which presumably exist outside of the Romulan and Klingon Empires somewhere in the galaxy), KEEP THEM.

If you can travel faster and out gun your opponent, why spend energy on a cloak. It's not an efficient allocation of resources.

GornGenius said:
2. When you assimilate telepathic races, since you have genetic modification technology, maybe you should equip all of your drones with that. Think about it - an entire cube full of Borg who can project their thoughts into the minds of their targets.
Borg: Resistance is futile.
Victim: ....yes...master...

That might be a good idea.

But then again a telepathic race, depending on the strength of their telepathy, might be able to free individual Borg, by reawakening memories of past lives.

Other than that, telepaths should be good additions to the Borg.

GornGenius said:
3. You have nanotechnology. That pretty much makes you invincible. Which is more efficient - injecting nanoprobes physically underneath the skin, or creating a nanoprobe "dirty bomb" that you transport over to the target vessel, releasing nanoprobes into the air, thus assimilating an entire ship from the inside out without a single drone being lost?

A very valid point.

Perhaps the nanoprobes need some sort of medium, other than air, to survive in and travel? We do see the Borg injecting the nanoprobes into their victims. If the nonoprobes could survive outside of some sort of liquid medium, then a simple gas blast would begin assimilation.

GornGenius said:
It is logical to assume that, if I can come up with these ideas without the input of a billion other minds from over 8,000 species (according to Voyager), then they must have as well, and rejected them.

Or found them as inefficient in one way or another.

GornGenius said:
Therefore, the Borg enjoy their sport of assimilation and cannot possibly assimilate the Federation or anyone who's closely associated with the Federation because...um...they're just too cool?

Arturis' people (Species 116) had also been able to mount a successful defense against the Borg and they were closer to Borg territory than the Federation.

That would suggest that the Federations resistance is not unique, and could mean that the Borg have made the Federation a lower priority. It may just be Federation arrogance that leads them to believe the Borg were looking to assimilate them the next morning

GornGenius said:
And because they all think Captain Picard is sexy and they want him? (The Borg Queen wanted Picard as a counterpart, and since she IS the Collective, Picard was instantly the most wanted man in the history of everything. We're talking billions, maybe trillions of Borg drones all with the Borg Queen's infatuation.) :drool:

:guffaw::guffaw::guffaw:

GornGenius said:
That is all for this first post of my "Highly Illogical" critiques of the Next Generation. More to come. :devil:

Keep them coming, you make very good points.
 
They're just messing with the Federation. Every time they attack, The Federation has to adapt - developing new technology.

Once The Borg decide their tech is of sufficient value, they'll send a thousand cubes and wipe the floor with them. :borg:
 
GornGenius said:
Subject: The Borg

So..let me get this straight: You are only interested in species because they have technology you want to assimilate. So your solution to a stubbornly resistant species is to go back in time, where the technology you want doesn't even exist yet, and THEN assimilate everyone. :brickwall:

This makes perfect sense. Going back in time to assimilate Humanity, the lynchpin of the Federation and the Borg's toughest foe, outside of Species 8472, at a period in their history where they are at their weakest and can put up the least resistance makes sense. Even Riker mentioned that in "First Contact". He said, "Makes sense, ten years after World War III, most of the cities destroyed, 600 million dead, no resistence." Remember, without Humanity there would be no Federation (I remember someone saying that in one of the series). It was Humans who got the major powers in the region (Vulcans, Andorians and Tellerites) to stop fighting among themselves and to band together to defend themselves against a common foe (the Romulans) who were bent on destabilizing the region. It was humans who pushed for this cooperation and for an alliance that became the Federation.

Oh, and let's not ignore the fact that by making the Borg have a central command processor in the form of a "queen" you basically destroy their whole philosophy of maximum redundancy and collective consciousness without "single leaders who can make mistakes, which is far less likely in the combined whole." Borgies, you're being outsmarted by a half-telepathic shrink. Think about it.

I don't have a problem with the Borg having Queens. Aside from dramatic license, it makes sense. Can mindless drones make strategic decisions, like what system to invade? Besides, the Borg's "society" is based on that of insects. There, they have drones who do the work and they have queens who procreate and lead the hive. The shows have even used the terms "drones", queen" and "hive mind". I don't think that there has to be only one queen n the entire Borg Collective, just like insects don't have only one queen for the entire species, why should the Borg do? Perhaps there is a queen assigned to different sectors or something like that.



3. You have nanotechnology. That pretty much makes you invincible. Which is more efficient - injecting nanoprobes physically underneath the skin, or creating a nanoprobe "dirty bomb" that you transport over to the target vessel, releasing nanoprobes into the air, thus assimilating an entire ship from the inside out without a single drone being lost?

It's possible. Voyager used just such a weapon against Species 8472 and gave the Borg the technology for it in exchange for safe passage through their space so there is no reason why they couldn't use this again in the future. All this assumes that they are able to find a way to penetrate the enemy's shields so they can transport the "nanoprobe bomb" to their ship. This weapon might be more useful though in assimilating planets where you can just drop a whole load of them over populated areas and assimilate the population much more quickly than having drones do it.
 
sunbari1 said:
I don't have a problem with the Borg having Queens. Aside from dramatic license, it makes sense. Can mindless drones make strategic decisions, like what system to invade? Besides, the Borg's "society" is based on that of insects. There, they have drones who do the work and they have queens who procreate and lead the hive. The shows have even used the terms "drones", queen" and "hive mind". I don't think that there has to be only one queen n the entire Borg Collective, just like insects don't have only one queen for the entire species, why should the Borg do? Perhaps there is a queen assigned to different sectors or something like that.

Yes, but this shows how the writers misinterpret (OK, maybe for dramatic reasons) the idea of a collective mind. It's not a matter of 'mindless' drones - all those drones are meant to be working together as one giant superbrain. As for the queen in an insect hive, there's no evidence she actually runs the show, she's apparently just a captive birth mother.
 
Wouldn't each Unimatrix have its own Queen, with a designated drone ready to become Queen should she go offline or die?
 
And if your plan is to travel back in time and assimilate Earth in the past... why do you have to travel to Earth in the present--fighting through the entire Star Fleet--to do so? Why not travel to the 21st century in the Delta Quadrant and then take a nice leisurely trip to Earth and do as you please? They were definitely not thinking 4th dimensionally.
 
EliyahuQeoni said:
And if your plan is to travel back in time and assimilate Earth in the past... why do you have to travel to Earth in the present--fighting through the entire Star Fleet--to do so? Why not travel to the 21st century in the Delta Quadrant and then take a nice leisurely trip to Earth and do as you please? They were definitely not thinking 4th dimensionally.

Good point.

I only have theories, maybe wild, maybe not.

The Borg may have been kept away from the Alpha Quadrant by some other power. It could have been a highly technologically advanced civilization, or a Q like creature. That civilization may have recently collapsed through civil war or some plague, or left for greener pastures. If it was a Q like creature, it may have seen that the Alpha Quadrant powers were now able to defend themselves and left.

The Borg may not have calculated the variables of passing through space in the past and found the risk of creating a powerful adversary too great.

They could have calculated the chances of success were significantly greater if they came to Earth first before traveling to the past.

Theories get more wild and improbable from here on, so I'll stop now.
 
Subject: The Borg

But...wait a minute. What about those mysterious outposts that disappeared along the Neutral Zone in the aptly titled episode, "The Neutral Zone?" Didn't Worf say in that episode that "it's as though some great force just scooped it off the face of the planet?"
And later, during "Q Who," he makes an almost identical statement about the ravaged planet they find in system J25. Not only that, but Data specifically notes that it is "identical to what happened along the outposts in the Neutral zone."
But that would mean...(gasp!) that the Borg was already present in Federation space, busy assimilating outposts and doing...nothing?? First invasion, failed. Cause? Borg laziness. :brickwall:

Not necessarily. Guinan says at the end of "Q Who?" that Q essentially caused first contact with the Collective sooner than it should have happened; perhaps their initial foray into the AQ was mainly reconnaissance, but the encounter with the Enterprise made them realize the AQ was a valid target.

Okay, barring that horrible waste of time and resources, we recall what Guinan says in "Q Who."
In that episode, Guinan states that when the Borg destroyed her people, "they swarmed through our system," and "when they come, they're going to come in force. They don't do anything peacemeal."

An now, here we are, one year later at "The Best of Both Worlds", and the grand Borg invasion (second wave, mind you) consists of....one ship. One?? They couldn't spare oh, I dunno, two?
The writers weren't very good with handling such a potentially powerful race. I personally agree with you that sending a lone ship every time is very inefficient. But it keeps the heroes alive. :D

Oh, and let's not ignore the fact that by making the Borg have a central command processor in the form of a "queen" you basically destroy their whole philosophy of maximum redundancy and collective consciousness without "single leaders who can make mistakes, which is far less likely in the combined whole." Borgies, you're being outsmarted by a half-telepathic shrink. Think about it.
Again, not necessarily. It's never been entirely clear whether there are multiple queens, although I personally favor that idea. A single queen would be a tactical weakness, and multiple queens would be more efficient as "embodiments" of the Collective. Several things in the series have also suggested it, like how the queen's death in FC didn't seem to affect the Borg in the Delta Quadrant. Only those aboard the Enterprise.

I can understand why some fans hate the idea of a queen, but to me it works fine. The alternative seems to be a collective consciousness that isn't sustained by any sort of authority, and without individuality or individual awareness that doesn't make much sense. Someone has to tell the drones what to do, because they lack they capacity to decide on their own.
 
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