High school cheerleader kicked off squad; Refused to cheer for rapist

[Amaris]

Re: High school cheerleader kicked off squad; Refused to cheer for rap

I really don't like that link in the OP (sorry, 00) as it reads a bit too much like an opinion piece than a news piece and I'm having a hard time finding a "good" news piece (from say CNN or something like that) but I'm sure one will hit the streets sooner or later.

To correct myself above he was a basketball player not a football player so that already makes him slightly more useless. And it does seem it was plead out, he was not expelled, because of needing him for a game or something. Part of their argument seems to have something to do with the school disclosing her personal information (what happened/the suit) but the 5th Circuit mostly focused on the whole cheerleader thing, it was made into a First Amendment issue.

It sounds like the whole thing is a mess but it also sounds like they school has its head up its ass.

Oh, well then it's my mistake as well for not double checking like I normally do. That said, my point for the Bengals still stands. We have one of the worst teams in the NFL, and many of them have long criminal records to go with their high salaries for their poor performance.

EDIT -

Screech - did you even read the damn article? The rapist played basketball, not football.

I skimmed through it, but it wasn't exactly written much like a news article so I glanced off of it and started researching it on my own to find a news article rather than an OP-ED blogish post form a women's rights group with an axe to grind. This:

Bolton was set to be on the school's varsity basketball team, and they couldn't risk losing by barring him from playing for a silly thing like a rape charge. That could impact their chances at winning. Who cares about the traumatic impact it would have an a cheerleader who needed to vocally support a team including her rapist?

Paragraph stopped me from reading as something like that just doesn't belong in a news article. It's too much of the author's voice and opinion bleeding into the story. I mean it's not necessarily a wrong statement, it just was out of place. I started looking for something written in a bit more neutral tone.

But whether it was football or basketball hardly seems to make a difference. As I still think the school went after her than him because he was a "star player" and he could still have a potential career in college hoops. So my statements based on it being basketball rather than football are hardly effected by me getting the sport wrong.

The school is still fucked up for treating the young woman like this.

I completely agree here as well.

Well, not really. They did let the rapist bargain down his sentence rather than just giving him the DP.

Par for the course in criminal justice, unfortunately. This part of the story sounds a lot like what happened with the guy who assaulted me. The offender being allowed to stay on site while the victim is burdened with the legal and moral expectation to clean up the mess and keep status quo for everyone else's comfort, and punished in some way upon refusal, is also familiar.

Appalling as it is, these gross imbalances happens in varying degrees to physical and sexual assault victims every day. The rarity of these types of stories actually disseminating through media into public consciousness gives the mistaken impression that these incidents are outliers.

Sometimes the legal system is just mind-blowingly backward. I still get frustrated by how you were, well, I was going to say treated, but I think the more apropos term would be railroaded. "Treated" would imply some level of legal and civil competent professionalism, which you did not receive.

 

[Data Holmes]

Re: High school cheerleader kicked off squad; Refused to cheer for rap

This isn't just a Texas thing... Many school districts protect "star" players by covering up their indiscretions.

As a society we place to high a... I don't know what you would call it really. But it starts in H.S. then continues into colleges, and leads into the pro sports fields as well. These players, who already show that they really are barbarians, soon learn that so long as they play well they are above the law.

It's BS and really needs to be stamped out at all levels.

 

[Amaris]

Re: High school cheerleader kicked off squad; Refused to cheer for rap

This isn't just a Texas thing... Many school districts protect "star" players by covering up their indiscretions.

As a society we place to high a... I don't know what you would call it really. But it starts in H.S. then continues into colleges, and leads into the pro sports fields as well. These players, who already show that they really are barbarians, soon learn that so long as they play well they are above the law.

It's BS and really needs to be stamped out at all levels.

Or, as our own Cincinnati Bengals will prove, they don't have to necessarily play well to be above the law.

(Seriously, I dislike the Bengals, not just on a sports level, but on an off field behavioral one).

 

[Bears Discover Fire]

Re: High school cheerleader kicked off squad; Refused to cheer for rap

Sometimes the legal system is just mind-blowingly backward. I still get frustrated by how you were, well, I was going to say treated, but I think the more apropos term would be railroaded. "Treated" would imply some level of legal and civil competent professionalism, which you did not receive.

The biggest shock of this story came when I read that the girl actually got her day in court.

 

[Amaris]

Re: High school cheerleader kicked off squad; Refused to cheer for rap

Sometimes the legal system is just mind-blowingly backward. I still get frustrated by how you were, well, I was going to say treated, but I think the more apropos term would be railroaded. "Treated" would imply some level of legal and civil competent professionalism, which you did not receive.

The biggest shock of this story came when I read that the girl actually got her day in court.

Yeah. You know, I always figured California as a more progressive state, but considering how you were treated, and how much of the news coming out of there lately is not in favor of a bastion of liberal enlightenment, I'm starting to wonder.

 

[Trekker4747]

Re: High school cheerleader kicked off squad; Refused to cheer for rap

What's aggravating is time, cost and turmoil a person has to go through to get retribution when they've been the victim of something.

Hell, the police can bust down your door right now, arrest you with a warrant, lock you up and threaten you with jail time. And it'd cost you money to retain your innocence and in the end you're likely to win but you're out all of the cost and unable to sue to get your money back.

There was a story I recall reading about a few years ago where a man refused to let a BestBuy "bouncer" look in his bag when the alarm went off as he walked out. (Strictly speaking they've no right to look in your bag even if the alarms go off.) Police were called and they tried to get him to show the bag he still refused (again, his right given there's no evidence he did anything wrong) (I do believe he showed the receipt at some point). The policed asked to see the man's driver's license and he refused.

And here's why: The police are not entitled to look at your DL unless you're actually driving and you're under no requirement to carry ID on you.

The guy was eventually jailed, released, and charged with some trumped up charges and, IIRC, in the end he ended up getting off on probation or something like that even though he was in the right! Was he a bit of an ass for not letting the BB Bouncer to see the bad? Maybe. Was he a bit of an ass for just not showing his DL to the cop? Maybe.

But he was still within his rights to do both of those things. Best Buy has no right to search your property, you're under no obligation to carry ID unless you're behind the wheel of a car, and you're under no obligation to show your DL to the police unless you're behind the wheel. So this guy simply stood up for his own rights and cost him a lot of money in court to fight to a stalemate. Giving up only because he couldn't afford to continue to fight it.

A bit off topic here but it just shows how in many cases or justice and legal system is fucked up and begins to lean more and more towards either "Guilty until proven innocent" or "Innocent until proven guilty... if you can afford it."

It's funny how the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals gets harped on a lot for being one of the "most liberal" and being too biased that way and for pushing a "liberal agenda", etc and here we've got the 5th Circuit, the second most conservative court after the 7th court out there and no one bitches.

Will we here Glen Beck or Rush Limbaugh out there complaining about this court pushing a strict, compassion-less, Conservative agenda on it's jurisdiction? I doubt it.

 

[MANT!]

Re: High school cheerleader kicked off squad; Refused to cheer for rap

This is typical for the Texas public school systems...

When the middle school has 3 gyms and an indoor pool..while the computers and schoolbooks are 15 years old...


Or the High School has a 10,000 seat stadium (in a town of 12,000) and a brand new sports complex...while science students have to make do with outdated or broken equipment...

When a football player who is awaiting trial for assault is allowed to play with a special waiver..and the band member who was assaulted is suspended...

And now the star basketball player who raped a cheerleader gets off with a slap on the wrist, and his victim gets kicked off...


The "Jock" culture has permeated schools at EVERY level and now it's bloated requirements are starting to sink the public school system in Texas...


I'm damn glad to be away from that culture...

 

[Bears Discover Fire]

Re: High school cheerleader kicked off squad; Refused to cheer for rap

Sometimes the legal system is just mind-blowingly backward. I still get frustrated by how you were, well, I was going to say treated, but I think the more apropos term would be railroaded. "Treated" would imply some level of legal and civil competent professionalism, which you did not receive.

The biggest shock of this story came when I read that the girl actually got her day in court.

Yeah. You know, I always figured California as a more progressive state, but considering how you were treated, and how much of the news coming out of there lately is not in favor of a bastion of liberal enlightenment, I'm starting to wonder.

Partisanship has no claim on the general apathy endemic of most employed in public vocation.

And California may seem uniformly progressive on the national scene, but like most reality, it's a complete crapshoot in practice from the prospective of the average resident.

 

[Amaris]

Re: High school cheerleader kicked off squad; Refused to cheer for rap

Partisanship has no claim on the general apathy endemic of most employed in public vocation.

It's a shame, too, because the average citizen relies on such people to see that they win their day in court, something you were denied. In the corporate world, this would lead to either a firing or a demotion. In the public service world, it's just another notch on the belt of ineffective bureaucracy.

And California may seem uniformly progressive on the national scene, but like most reality, it's a complete crapshoot in practice from the prospective of the average resident.

Ah, see, now that just shows off the silly ideas of a mid-western country boy.

 

[Bears Discover Fire]

Re: High school cheerleader kicked off squad; Refused to cheer for rap

Partisanship has no claim on the general apathy endemic of most employed in public vocation.

It's a shame, too, because the average citizen relies on such people to see that they win their day in court, something you were denied. In the corporate world, this would lead to either a firing or a demotion. In the public service world, it's just another notch on the belt of ineffective bureaucracy.

And California may seem uniformly progressive on the national scene, but like most reality, it's a complete crapshoot in practice from the prospective of the average resident.

Ah, see, now that just shows off the silly ideas of a mid-western country boy.

You'll get a laugh out of this then: I interviewed for a job with the LA County Sheriff's department. I was prompted by an employee there, who knew nothing of my political persuasions, to stuff away any hint of liberalism I may have lest I find myself quickly alienated from and fired by the ultra-conservative department.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

Re: High school cheerleader kicked off squad; Refused to cheer for rap

http://womensrights.change.org/blog...cheer_for_her_rapist#share_source=blog-top_fbWhat the fuck is going on in Texas that this could happen?

This really seems par for the course for Texas to me.

How do you know Texans aren't outraged?

BTW, that was Louisiana that used to give the death penalty for rape, not Texas. And the Supreme Court unfortunately struck down that law.

I am not sure whether the Louisiana legal code (which functions very differently from any other state in the Union) would have allowed that law to apply to minors, though.

 

[doubleohfive]

Re: High school cheerleader kicked off squad; Refused to cheer for rap

Oh I know Texans who are outraged. I share their outrage. I'm not blaming ALL Texans for this, just the ones on that dumbass school board.

 

[Teelie]

Re: High school cheerleader kicked off squad; Refused to cheer for rap

This is going to get wordy because it's so easy for people to skim through and misread opinions or comments and come to a wrong conclusion. So read it thoroughly before you jump on me.

It's Texas so it doesn't surprise me. They are notorious for this kind of thing. The site is a women's rights blog so blatantly biased that the "reporting" doesn't surprise me. It's just shy of having a castrated man burning in effigy on the main page.

I'm sure there is more to the truth in this story than we're getting but with the very scant information provided there's no way to know how much of this is true and how much is exaggerated or even outright lies from either side.

For instance, after going through a few links and finding the original story, the person in question did play football, not basketball when the assault occured.

Keep reading the story. The guy sounds like an total ass "no hard feelings" towards the girl for his involvement, but the assault was said to happen at a party with drinking which leads to how much was consensual (at least initially) and how much was just drunken stupidity on both his and/or her part?

People do stupid things when they get drunk. Before anyone jumps on me for daring to doubt, I'm not saying she deserved to get raped, I'm saying if the guy did rape her then he was stupid to start with but it's also possible she was under the influence of alcohol herself and regretted it and called it rape. I'm not saying that is what happened, only that it has before and that colors my perception of situations like this where there's no clear evidence of what did happen.

I'm not going to blindly believe anyone who claims anything because it's so easy to call out "rape" and people accept it without question only to find out later either it was consensual or nothing happened at all. Anyone remember the Duke Lacrosse team from a few years ago? A woman claimed she was raped by the team, turns out she never had sex with one of them. But they were all permanantly incriminated for it regardless.

Given he was convicted of a lesser crime though, I am inclined to believe he at the very least took advantage of her condition. Regardless of how consensual she was or wasn't at the start, the guy got off too easy for what amounted to sexual assault.

And finally to conclude, the school is unfortunately doing exactly what I expect of schools these days; giving their athletes a break and a proverbial finger to everyone else and giving safety, security and education a backseat to a "star."

TL;DR version: This is a biased report which taints the facts and makes the story look uglier than it is (which is already ugly) and didn't need. The school was wrong to kick her off the team and if he or the school had any sense, they would have avoided this conflict from the beginning.

 

[JiNX-01]

Re: High school cheerleader kicked off squad; Refused to cheer for rap

This is rigoddamndiculous.

The guy raped her, served time after bargaining down his sentence (community service and anger management for raping a girl, assisted by two of his friends?), and she gets kicked off the team because she refused to cheer his name (and only his name) after having been to every event all along since she was first assaulted?

On top of this, she has the gumption to sue the school, only to have the Texas courts uphold the school's decision.

Her silence apparently "constituted substantial interference with the work of the school because, as a cheerleader, H.S. was at the basketball game for the purpose of cheering, a position she undertook voluntarily." Well, I'm sure H.S. never expected to be "volunteering" to cheer for someone who had assaulted her. And the idea that by just being silent during Bolton's free throws, a barely noticeable act, was "substantial interference with the work of the school" — um, we're talking extracurricular sports, not classroom disruption — makes little sense.

Excuse me, it's more than just "makes little sense." It's goddamn incomprehensible.

What the fuck is going on in Texas that this could happen?

Why are you surprised? For God's sake, it's TEXAS! They execute retarded people! You think anyone is going to give a damn about a rape victim when bragging rights are on the line?

 

[Amaris]

Re: High school cheerleader kicked off squad; Refused to cheer for rap

Partisanship has no claim on the general apathy endemic of most employed in public vocation.

It's a shame, too, because the average citizen relies on such people to see that they win their day in court, something you were denied. In the corporate world, this would lead to either a firing or a demotion. In the public service world, it's just another notch on the belt of ineffective bureaucracy.

And California may seem uniformly progressive on the national scene, but like most reality, it's a complete crapshoot in practice from the prospective of the average resident.

Ah, see, now that just shows off the silly ideas of a mid-western country boy.

You'll get a laugh out of this then: I interviewed for a job with the LA County Sheriff's department. I was prompted by an employee there, who knew nothing of my political persuasions, to stuff away any hint of liberalism I may have lest I find myself quickly alienated from and fired by the ultra-conservative department.

Wow. That's almost like a "Truth is stranger than fiction" kind of situation. I think I really need to re-assess what I think I know about California!

 

[Teelie]

Re: High school cheerleader kicked off squad; Refused to cheer for rap

Why are you surprised? For God's sake, it's TEXAS! They execute retarded people! You think anyone is going to give a damn about a rape victim when bragging rights are on the line?

It's also very highly likely they executed an innocent man for an arson that killed his daughters when it was never an arson to begin with.

 

[Data Holmes]

Re: High school cheerleader kicked off squad; Refused to cheer for rap

This is going to get wordy because it's so easy for people to skim through and misread opinions or comments and come to a wrong conclusion. So read it thoroughly before you jump on me.

It's Texas so it doesn't surprise me. They are notorious for this kind of thing. The site is a women's rights blog so blatantly biased that the "reporting" doesn't surprise me. It's just shy of having a castrated man burning in effigy on the main page.

I'm sure there is more to the truth in this story than we're getting but with the very scant information provided there's no way to know how much of this is true and how much is exaggerated or even outright lies from either side.

For instance, after going through a few links and finding the original story, the person in question did play football, not basketball when the assault occured.

Keep reading the story. The guy sounds like an total ass "no hard feelings" towards the girl for his involvement, but the assault was said to happen at a party with drinking which leads to how much was consensual (at least initially) and how much was just drunken stupidity on both his and/or her part?

People do stupid things when they get drunk. Before anyone jumps on me for daring to doubt, I'm not saying she deserved to get raped, I'm saying if the guy did rape her then he was stupid to start with but it's also possible she was under the influence of alcohol herself and regretted it and called it rape. I'm not saying that is what happened, only that it has before and that colors my perception of situations like this where there's no clear evidence of what did happen.

I'm not going to blindly believe anyone who claims anything because it's so easy to call out "rape" and people accept it without question only to find out later either it was consensual or nothing happened at all. Anyone remember the Duke Lacrosse team from a few years ago? A woman claimed she was raped by the team, turns out she never had sex with one of them. But they were all permanantly incriminated for it regardless.

Given he was convicted of a lesser crime though, I am inclined to believe he at the very least took advantage of her condition. Regardless of how consensual she was or wasn't at the start, the guy got off too easy for what amounted to sexual assault.

And finally to conclude, the school is unfortunately doing exactly what I expect of schools these days; giving their athletes a break and a proverbial finger to everyone else and giving safety, security and education a backseat to a "star."

TL;DR version: This is a biased report which taints the facts and makes the story look uglier than it is (which is already ugly) and didn't need. The school was wrong to kick her off the team and if he or the school had any sense, they would have avoided this conflict from the beginning.

That was a well put post Teelie.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Re: High school cheerleader kicked off squad; Refused to cheer for rap

the assault was said to happen at a party with drinking which leads to how much was consensual

If the girl was drunk, doesn't that mean she was incapable of legally giving consent? So he can't use that as a defense.

 

[Teelie]

Re: High school cheerleader kicked off squad; Refused to cheer for rap

That was a well put post Teelie.

Thanks, I did not want it to be misinterpeted I doubted she was somehow assaulted but I'm also skeptical of incomplete stories such as this, especially those from blogs with an obvious bias in the reporting.

the assault was said to happen at a party with drinking which leads to how much was consensual

If the girl was drunk, doesn't that mean she was incapable of legally giving consent? So he can't use that as a defense.

Exactly, I tried to make that point but I was already wordy with it. Things like this are very delicate and hard to properly convey opinions on. As I said above, I have no doubt he took advantage of her but I also have some doubts as to how it happened as well. It was not a clear rape in the traditionally viewed sense that he grabbed her and raped her in some dark alley but at an alcohol-fueled party where inhibitions and common sense are reduced.

I think the lesson from this is a) don't go to a party and drink excessively (or even at all if you're under age) and b) don't have sex with someone, whether they consent or not. Sex under the influence of alcohol can easily become a case of rape.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Re: High school cheerleader kicked off squad; Refused to cheer for rap

It was not a clear rape in the traditionally viewed sense that he grabbed her and raped her in some dark alley but at an alcohol-fueled party where inhibitions and common sense are reduced.

It may not be a "clear" rape, but it's a *legal* rape. Assuming the girl really was drunk.

Although I think there is still a question, would the guy have been expected to know she was drunk. If she's obviously sloshed, then he should have been convicted on the spot. But if she was not noticeably drunk, just legally intoxicated (it is possible for somebody to be drunk but not LOOK it), it might be more complicated in assigning culpability to him.