That's why the Company and the government should form an alliance - the government realizes that the Company has useful expertise. But it should be a tricky alliance based on mutual distrust and fear.
Heroes: The Five Years Gone route
- Thread starter Joe Washington
- Start date
I'm thinking the Season 5 of your over-arching plan should open with a time leap (think Lost's Through the Looking Glass or BSG's Lay Down Your Burdens) so some time would pass between Sylar becoming President and the climatic events of the final season.
I also think you should have Elle play a role in the story. Maybe start her off as a Company operative like the original or Danko's daughter/second-in-command whose abilities Danko has kept secret so he could use them to his advantage. But at some point, she goes rogue, meets Sylar, and falls for him. They develop some mad sociopathic love for each other. She becomes his right-hand woman when he takes over the Company and more so when he assumes Nathan's form and becomes President of the United States. And, like I said in my thread on Elle, you could have her killed by Peter in Season 5 after she shares news of her pregnancy with Sylar who was so looking forward to being a father until Peter took it away from him. That would definitely add more fuel to the big showdown between Peter and Sylar in the series finale.
I also think you could have Peter form a fatherly bond with the orphaned Micah like he becomes the Wesley (badass version, not the goofy one) to Micah's Buffy. Maybe he becomes a member of Peter's rebel group that would be aganist both the government and the Company.
I also think you should have Elle play a role in the story. Maybe start her off as a Company operative like the original or Danko's daughter/second-in-command whose abilities Danko has kept secret so he could use them to his advantage. But at some point, she goes rogue, meets Sylar, and falls for him. They develop some mad sociopathic love for each other. She becomes his right-hand woman when he takes over the Company and more so when he assumes Nathan's form and becomes President of the United States. And, like I said in my thread on Elle, you could have her killed by Peter in Season 5 after she shares news of her pregnancy with Sylar who was so looking forward to being a father until Peter took it away from him. That would definitely add more fuel to the big showdown between Peter and Sylar in the series finale.
I also think you could have Peter form a fatherly bond with the orphaned Micah like he becomes the Wesley (badass version, not the goofy one) to Micah's Buffy. Maybe he becomes a member of Peter's rebel group that would be aganist both the government and the Company.
Yeah I think Elle and Sylar's Bonnie-and-Clyde routine should be retained.
Agreed to that, too!
Agreed to that, too!
Would Nathan be more of a Lex Luthor archtype? Similar to Smallvilles Lex than the Donner version
Nathan shouldn't be that evil. He should be power-hungry because that's who he is, and prone to cutting corners, but he has an inherent sense of decency and is just trying to avert disaster and keep his family safe.
I can't say I like the Gabriel Petrelli thing, best to make it clear from the start that Angela and Arthur were BSing him.
As for "Five Years" being inevitable, why not do what the 90s X-Men cartoon did with Bishop? To prevent his future, he goes back and prevents the key event that caused it. But upon his return he finds the future pretty much unchanged, and a new event happened to create a similar future with a few differences. He goes back to change THAT event and returns to find a still-ruined future ruined by something else.
In other words, the general state of the future in unchanging but the exact cause is altered.
As for "Five Years" being inevitable, why not do what the 90s X-Men cartoon did with Bishop? To prevent his future, he goes back and prevents the key event that caused it. But upon his return he finds the future pretty much unchanged, and a new event happened to create a similar future with a few differences. He goes back to change THAT event and returns to find a still-ruined future ruined by something else.
In other words, the general state of the future in unchanging but the exact cause is altered.
Temis: But how would Nathan and Peter for that matter go from being presumed dead by the end of Season 1 to their positions in Season 2 with Nathan resuming his political career and Peter helping others as a paramedic?
Solution 1: People hated the S1 finale, so we change that.
Solution 2: Spend a few episodes dealing with the aftermath of the S1 finale. I didn't mind Peter having amnesia for a bit, but shipping him off to Ireland was absurd. Why couldn't he just land somewhere in upstate NY and be a missing person for a while? The amnesia could be caused by shock rather than Rene.
Then Angela gets Molly to help her locate him, brings him back home and he recovers. After that experience, he swears off his rotten family, becomes a paramedic and throws himself into his work.
Nathan doesn't need to have been injured at all. He could have let Peter in time. Sure, we could have him recovering as well, but I'd prefer to get right into the political plotline (after Peter is safely back home, that is, since Nathan would focus on that before all else.)
All that could take 3-4 episodes of S2, then we launch into the regularly scheduled plotline.
Solution 2: Spend a few episodes dealing with the aftermath of the S1 finale. I didn't mind Peter having amnesia for a bit, but shipping him off to Ireland was absurd. Why couldn't he just land somewhere in upstate NY and be a missing person for a while? The amnesia could be caused by shock rather than Rene.
Then Angela gets Molly to help her locate him, brings him back home and he recovers. After that experience, he swears off his rotten family, becomes a paramedic and throws himself into his work.
Nathan doesn't need to have been injured at all. He could have let Peter in time. Sure, we could have him recovering as well, but I'd prefer to get right into the political plotline (after Peter is safely back home, that is, since Nathan would focus on that before all else.)
All that could take 3-4 episodes of S2, then we launch into the regularly scheduled plotline.
Temis the Vorta: Do you really think there's nothing you could do with the Nikki character? What about she learns about the future Hiro and Ando went to from Ando and finds out that her future self is alone and there's no sign of D.L. or Micah with her? Which makes her very worried about the future, more so after her husband D.L. dies of the gunshot wound he got from Linderman. She becomes concerned about the fate of her son and does everything she can to protect him. If you wanted, you could take things further have Micah killed off as evidence that though there are some things you can change about the future, there are others like Micah's death that you can't change and Nikki learns this the hard way. I see this devastating Nikki and probably turning her into a deadly individual hungry for revenge.
I think a romance between Peter and Nikki could work if portrayed right. But before she does set her eyes on Peter, I'm thinking Nikki and Micah could move in with Mohinder and Molly who Mohinder takes in after D.L.'s death. They become something of a surrogate family and Mohinder's feelings for Nikki become more than friendly over time. This would create an interesting situation between Mohinder and Pete when Nikki becomes increasingly close to Peter.
I also think Matt's storyline after being nearly killed by Sylar in the Season 1 finale should be his difficulty moving on with his life with Janice because of his obsession to hunt down Sylar which began when he found out Sylar's body wasn't found in Kirby Plaza. Maybe he hallucinates a taunting Sylar which he uses alcohol to keep it at bay.
What do you think?
I think a romance between Peter and Nikki could work if portrayed right. But before she does set her eyes on Peter, I'm thinking Nikki and Micah could move in with Mohinder and Molly who Mohinder takes in after D.L.'s death. They become something of a surrogate family and Mohinder's feelings for Nikki become more than friendly over time. This would create an interesting situation between Mohinder and Pete when Nikki becomes increasingly close to Peter.
I also think Matt's storyline after being nearly killed by Sylar in the Season 1 finale should be his difficulty moving on with his life with Janice because of his obsession to hunt down Sylar which began when he found out Sylar's body wasn't found in Kirby Plaza. Maybe he hallucinates a taunting Sylar which he uses alcohol to keep it at bay.
What do you think?
I'll let you write Nikki's plotlines since she stymies me - I can't think of what would make her useful to the story. But killing her and bringing in a "twin" was lazy, anything would be better than that. I see zero chemistry between her and Peter which is why I object to the pairing.
Which reminds me of something I thought of for Elle, who had abundant chemistry with Peter. Let's face it, Elle was really after Peter all along. Gabriel was a consolation prize. The notion of Peter killing Elle (possibly pregnant) even by accident is probably too harsh. It would drive him around the bend.
How about this? Elle realizes that she's bitten off way too much with Gabriel, who is increasingly insane and dangerous. She needs to fake her own death to get away from him, and enlists Peter's help in the ruse. Being a borderline masochist, Peter jumps at the chance to earn Gabe's eternal ire by pretending to have killed Elle. She scrams, and only after the fact does Peter learn that she's pregnant. Yet he has to continue the lie forever, for her sake, pretending to be a villain.
Another idea: Claire's power is really quite boring, which is probably why she didn't get very many plotlines using her power, which led to all the awkward ways they kept trying to find some role for her in the story at all. There needs to be a rule that the powers these people have must be kept at the forefront of the story to a reasonable degree (and must be used intelligently). She needed to start evolving her power, and a natural step would be to gain the kill/heal power introduced in S4.
As for Matt, after the S1 finale, he should have gone back to his wife. The idea that she would divorce him seemed totally out of left field. She'd be weirded out by his odd injuries but she knows about his power anyway. Matt's role in the story is to try desperately to stay out of the story - live an average, unremarkable life - and fail at it.
Which reminds me of something I thought of for Elle, who had abundant chemistry with Peter. Let's face it, Elle was really after Peter all along. Gabriel was a consolation prize. The notion of Peter killing Elle (possibly pregnant) even by accident is probably too harsh. It would drive him around the bend.
How about this? Elle realizes that she's bitten off way too much with Gabriel, who is increasingly insane and dangerous. She needs to fake her own death to get away from him, and enlists Peter's help in the ruse. Being a borderline masochist, Peter jumps at the chance to earn Gabe's eternal ire by pretending to have killed Elle. She scrams, and only after the fact does Peter learn that she's pregnant. Yet he has to continue the lie forever, for her sake, pretending to be a villain.
Another idea: Claire's power is really quite boring, which is probably why she didn't get very many plotlines using her power, which led to all the awkward ways they kept trying to find some role for her in the story at all. There needs to be a rule that the powers these people have must be kept at the forefront of the story to a reasonable degree (and must be used intelligently). She needed to start evolving her power, and a natural step would be to gain the kill/heal power introduced in S4.
As for Matt, after the S1 finale, he should have gone back to his wife. The idea that she would divorce him seemed totally out of left field. She'd be weirded out by his odd injuries but she knows about his power anyway. Matt's role in the story is to try desperately to stay out of the story - live an average, unremarkable life - and fail at it.
I don't know. A Peter-Elle-Sylar triangle would be very interesting to watch but I've always felt that Sylar and Elle made quite the pair because of their mutual love for killling and suffering.
Now on the subject of Claire, I can't think of any useful storylines for her though I wished her losing the ability to feel physically after Sylar attacked her and took some of her power could have been permanent and put her on the path of becoming Dark Claire of the future. That and maybe her relationship with the flying guy from Season 2 were the only storylines for her that I found interesting.
What do you think about Peter and Noah joing forces and forming their own rebel Company that's aganist the government and the Company under Sylar's control?
Now on the subject of Claire, I can't think of any useful storylines for her though I wished her losing the ability to feel physically after Sylar attacked her and took some of her power could have been permanent and put her on the path of becoming Dark Claire of the future. That and maybe her relationship with the flying guy from Season 2 were the only storylines for her that I found interesting.
What do you think about Peter and Noah joing forces and forming their own rebel Company that's aganist the government and the Company under Sylar's control?
Peter and Noah just might team up because I see these characters in terms of whether they trust law and order/"the system" to handle problems, or have more faith in their own innate goodness or sense of justice. That should govern which side they fall on.
Law and Order
Nathan - He must have chosen to pursue the fields of law and politics for some reason, and being a cynic, he wouldn't be inclined to see much innate goodness in people. He'd regard the metas' powers as inherently corrupting and in need of being controlled.
Matt - Believing in law and order is an integral part of who he is.
Mohinder - Borderline case, but he would have faith in science as a system that could solve everyone's problems.
Angela - Definitely in it for herself, but tempermentally inclined to hide behind a larger organization or power structure. Like Nathan, too much of a cynic to have much faith in individual goodness.
Individual Justice
Peter - He sees the world in terms of people, not abstract systems. He'd trust only people as long as he thought they were good.
Noah - He may have joined a "system" (The Company) but his loyalty is to individuals - his family.
Claire - Rebellious streak makes her the individual type.
Micah - Being orphaned and forced to live by his wits would give him little faith in any system.
Law and Order
Nathan - He must have chosen to pursue the fields of law and politics for some reason, and being a cynic, he wouldn't be inclined to see much innate goodness in people. He'd regard the metas' powers as inherently corrupting and in need of being controlled.
Matt - Believing in law and order is an integral part of who he is.
Mohinder - Borderline case, but he would have faith in science as a system that could solve everyone's problems.
Angela - Definitely in it for herself, but tempermentally inclined to hide behind a larger organization or power structure. Like Nathan, too much of a cynic to have much faith in individual goodness.
Individual Justice
Peter - He sees the world in terms of people, not abstract systems. He'd trust only people as long as he thought they were good.
Noah - He may have joined a "system" (The Company) but his loyalty is to individuals - his family.
Claire - Rebellious streak makes her the individual type.
Micah - Being orphaned and forced to live by his wits would give him little faith in any system.
Temis the Vorta: Do you think it would be better to kill off Nathan by the end of Season 3 of your Five Years Gone vision, with Sylar assuming Nathan's form out of survival and then during Season 4, Sylar becomes seduced by political power and becomes bent on becoming President to gain more of that power? Then Peter finds out that Nathan is really Sylar by the end of the season when it's a moment too late to stop him from taking over the Presidency?
And maybe Peter and Elle could have a passionate affair behind Sylar's back while Elle works as Peter's double agent making Sylar think she's on his side, using Sylar's confidence in her to secretly report some of what Sylar's doing to Peter and his resistance group. Then things become complicated when Elle finds out she's pregnant with Sylar's child.
And maybe Peter and Elle could have a passionate affair behind Sylar's back while Elle works as Peter's double agent making Sylar think she's on his side, using Sylar's confidence in her to secretly report some of what Sylar's doing to Peter and his resistance group. Then things become complicated when Elle finds out she's pregnant with Sylar's child.
Why not just kill Sylar off in the S1 finale and have there be a new villain for each season? The whole point of it would be that despite their efforts the future still ends up bad, with some other villain impersonating Nathan as President (or not even bothering with the impersonation and just ending up as the President somehow).
I think Nathan should be Nathan when he wins the Presidency. I don't see Sylar ever having the savvy and discipline to pull of a successful Presidential run, regardless of who he looks like. He'd be under far too much scrutiny to be able to maintain the facade impeccably. And Sylar is a scavenger: he'd let Nathan do the work and then grab the glory, maybe right before the Inaguration.
When "Nathan" enters the Oval Office, the audience should be uncertain just who they are looking at. They realize the truth only when the new Prez sets something on his desk: a snow globe that says Souvenir of Oregon.
(I like the idea that the snow globe is Mount St Helens spewing "ash" instead of snow. I don't even know if they make such a thing but it would be a nice joke.
)I always thought Peter was scared of Elle. I can't see that relationship working out at all.
If they can come up with a good villain for each season, sure. But look at their track record:
Sylar - they got a terrific actor to play a poorly written villain.
Adam - they got a terrific actor to play a poorly written villain.
Arthur - they miscast the role, which was poorly written anyway.
Elle - they got a terrific actor to play an inconsistently but not terribly written villain but they couldn't hang onto the actor.
Danko - they got a terrific actor to play a an okay but too cliched villain.
Samuel - they got a terrific actor to play a poorly written villain.
This pattern doesn't fill me with a whole lot of confidence.
Why bother killing a character if the next one is going to suck just as much? Killing a character means you lose the actor but keep the writers. They need to do the reverse.
I'd say Adam was a more mistreated character than an inherently bad one.
Arthur, well I wouldn't have made him a villain for one thing. Just someone who opposed the Company.
Elle, well they should've just killed her off early since they KNEW they couldn't hold onto Bell.
Danko, he served his purpose. Just needed some more depth and he was okay.
Samuel, I haven't watched season 5 so I can't comment.
I think just having Adam as the central master villain who reassumes control of the Company when he escapes captivity in S2 would work out. Heroes' "Ra's al Ghul". Then it gets hairier when Arthur turns out to be alive and tries to form Peter and co into his own Company to fight Adam with.
The crossfire convinces Nathan to have them all locked up which gives us Danko.
Then Samuel emerges as a wildcard.
Arthur, well I wouldn't have made him a villain for one thing. Just someone who opposed the Company.
Elle, well they should've just killed her off early since they KNEW they couldn't hold onto Bell.
Danko, he served his purpose. Just needed some more depth and he was okay.
Samuel, I haven't watched season 5 so I can't comment.
I think just having Adam as the central master villain who reassumes control of the Company when he escapes captivity in S2 would work out. Heroes' "Ra's al Ghul". Then it gets hairier when Arthur turns out to be alive and tries to form Peter and co into his own Company to fight Adam with.
The crossfire convinces Nathan to have them all locked up which gives us Danko.
Then Samuel emerges as a wildcard.
Adam was mistreated by the writers, who gave him a stupid motivation: he couldn't get over Hiro stealing his girlfriend??? The guy's immortal. I'm sure he's long since used to romances coming and going. He should have been far too blase to care about Princess whatserface, especially after centuries.
But wait till you see Samuel. Wow, did they goof that guy up. And I had such high hopes. Among all their other failings, the Heroes' writers don't have a clue how to give a villain a motivation that goes beyond surface cliche.
But wait till you see Samuel. Wow, did they goof that guy up. And I had such high hopes. Among all their other failings, the Heroes' writers don't have a clue how to give a villain a motivation that goes beyond surface cliche.
I assumed Adam wanted revenge on Hiro for totally stealing ALL his glory in everything, not just the princess. But yeah, even that didn't make sense since he's immortal.
But then again, what IS the right motivation for an immortal guy? He could easily become a Ra's Al Ghul or Vandal Savage knock-off so it's tricky.
But then again, what IS the right motivation for an immortal guy? He could easily become a Ra's Al Ghul or Vandal Savage knock-off so it's tricky.
Look, they should have gone the Watchmen route - have these people discovering superpowers and then show how that affects the world we live in.
The villains would be motivated by the most basic of human instincts - greed; or perhaps just out of insanity, like Sylar.
But I would like to see how the "heroes" would cope with being found out and having everyone try to take advantage of them, and how the world in turn would be affected by, save, someone like Peter who could end the War on Terror in days. Nuclear Guy being treated as a strategic asset (or threat). Claire being hunted for her blood. There are endless moral and ethical and social issues that could have been addressed, and never were.
The villains would be motivated by the most basic of human instincts - greed; or perhaps just out of insanity, like Sylar.
But I would like to see how the "heroes" would cope with being found out and having everyone try to take advantage of them, and how the world in turn would be affected by, save, someone like Peter who could end the War on Terror in days. Nuclear Guy being treated as a strategic asset (or threat). Claire being hunted for her blood. There are endless moral and ethical and social issues that could have been addressed, and never were.
Ennui. He might just wreak havoc out of sheer boredom.
The worst villains would think they had been given a special gift by God to use their powers to shape the world into "what it should be." What exactly that is, isn't important. The attitude is going to lead to bad things.
The greedy and insane ones would seem tame by comparison. Greed in particular is a relatively mild failing. A greedy person gets goodies and then is too distracted by the goodies to wreak too much more havoc. The ones you need to watch out for are the ones who think they know what's best for everyone.
Just today, I thought of a plotline for Claire at long last - she's really stumped me so far, trying to think of a good plotline for her that Hayden Panetierre could handle.
Now I have it. Her powers need to evolve so that she has the power to heal others (possibly also kill others). So you have an angelic-looking young blonde girl who can heal the sick for real, of course a massive, fanatical cult would form around her. She'd be naive and overconfident enough to think it's okay, she can manage this new religion so that it's a force for good. Of course she'll be wrong.
It would be fun if Nathan became President in parallel to the Cult of Claire gaining ascendancy and perhaps threatening the political power structure.
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