Here it is - no bloody "A", "B" "C" or "D"

[Captain59]

As much as I hate the changes to the Enterprise, it's just barely possible that toy licencees wanted changes made to differentiate this Enterprise from those already sold, in order to increase future toy sales. After all, if you're just selling an Enterprise toy that looks exactly like the one you sold two years ago, your sales might not be so hot.

---------------

Good point, Scott. I don't know if anyone is familiar with Gatchaman, but the first series had a fine looking ship for the Phoenix...the same we see in Battle of the Planets. But after the success of the first Gatchaman series, two more were spawned. However, the production company demanded the Phoenix be redesigned to increase toy sales. So, they made is hideous-looking Phoenix that looked like a deranged rooster. It's not surprising that the more favored ship to this day is by far the original Phoenix.

[hotlinked images removed]


I assume the same will be with this Enterprise vs. the TOS Enterprise.

The design change is not anywhere near as radical or stupid for that matter. I cannot believe how irrational some of the responses to this ship are.

I look for any excuse to post pictures of my favorite space ship of all time! Yes, it's actually not the Enterprise!

 

[Samurai8472]

are any of you by any chance just a little but worried that this new breed of Trek fan (and the ones to follow) will be introduced to this new take on the universe (and in some cases grow up with it like we did with first runs or repeats of TOS or TNG) will recognise the JJ universe as Star Trek and the JJ version of the ship as THE Enterprise?

It reminds me of people who weren't old enough or don't remember the 1984 transformers

To some the 2007 version is the only version they know if. Also I hate how some older fans criticized newer ones because the newer fans didn't see the original series

"You can't call yourself a true fan till you've seen all of the G1 transformers"

 

[Sheridan]

Your argument assumes that the average person knows Star Trek enough to be concerned let alone aware of the design changes made and it also implies that if the person is aware of the changes that they'll actually care.

Actually, no it doesn't. But I'll expand on that in a moment.

To the average person(non trekkies. there's a lot of them btw) who's even just slightly aware of the existence of Star Trek they'll probably recognize the Enterprise as a saucer connected to a cylinder via a neck with 2 engines, which, guess what: The new Enterprise keeps all those basic characteristics. They're not going to be concerned about anything more detailed than that if they're even concerned at all in the first place.

Yes. That's true. Some people will see this and think "It's that Star Track ship, where Doctor Spock fought the Kling-peaches." And they won't care. Of course, they also wouldn't care if the ship looked exactly like the original version, even going so far as to pull the model out of the Smithsonian. And no matter what, they won't remember anything about the movie after a week's gone by... it'll be forgotten and washed away by the latest episode of "American Idol - Human Sacrifice Edition."

So who's the change supposed to be for? What POSITIVE will it accomplish?

People who pay enough attention to the movie to care... will notice.

Some of them post on this BBS and think that the original sucked and want to see the original "redone." They'll be happy-ish... but undoubtedly will think that they could have done it even better. They'll simply be happy that the "canonistas" (as they call them) have been disenfranchised.

Some of them post on this BBS and think that the original is the foundation upon which all the rest of the stuff has grown, and if you rip up those roots, the rest of the tree will inevitably be firewood. They'll notice, and will care, and won't like the changes.

There are some who are "casual fans" and know, very well, what the ship looks like... and they'll go in and notice "that's not right."

Who, other than the production staff, actually profits from making this sort of change? (And in their case, they "profit" only in the area of ego, not in terms of financial profit.)

If this is really what it implies... an attempt to "over-write" TOS, instead of to "extend and expand upon TOS"... then there's gonna be a permanent, irrevocable schism beyond anything that "fandom" has ever seen.

And that will mean that Trek is really dead. This movie will have just performed a final act of necrophilia.

Going back to your battleship analogy...you're applying today's limitations of battleship design to the fictional design of a starship that exists 300 years in the future. In the fictional Star Trek universe where ships can travel at warp 9 and humans can be converted into energy and back into matter and thousands of other technological advances have taken place is it such a far leap to consider that they can *practically* and *easily* produce(using advanced technology of the 23rd century) a stylish starship while they're at it especially since this is the flagship representing the whole federation in uncharted territories? And also, the purpose of the Enterprise is not for battle anyway. Its primary role is exploration. Furthermore, as you yourself have stated the new design does improve structural strength of the neck therefore I see advantages and no disadvantages to the new design.

 

[3D Master]

But that's still a hotlink. Maybe a hotlink to a place designed for it where you put your pictures, but it's still a hotlink.

Furthermore, as you yourself have stated the new design does improve structural strength of the neck therefore I see advantages and no disadvantages to the new design.

It's ugly. It looks like a from different eras cobbled together misshapen turd. There's your disadvantage.

It doesn't even remotely look like the orignal. There's another disadvantage.

 

[cooleddie74]

If it weren't for the big-ass deflector dish and lack of a huge "NCC-1701" emblazoned underneath the saucer section it would look nothing like the old TOS ship.

 

[Corran Horn]

But that's still a hotlink. Maybe a hotlink to a place designed for it where you put your pictures, but it's still a hotlink.

Furthermore, as you yourself have stated the new design does improve structural strength of the neck therefore I see advantages and no disadvantages to the new design.

It's ugly. It looks like a from different eras cobbled together misshapen turd. There's your disadvantage.

It doesn't even remotely look like the orignal. There's another disadvantage.

Not even remotely? Sorry, no.

The Millennium Falcon does not remotely resemble the original Enterprise.

This ship looks like an updated version with a few changes.`

 

[cultcross]

It doesn't even remotely look like the orignal. There's another disadvantage.

I'm sorry but that's a ludicrous statement to make. They look very much alike, the differences are fairly minor, all things considered. The neck's a bit further back, the nacelles are differently finished and there are some difference in surface detail and decals. You have a round saucer which has central protrusions on the top and bottom and a bridge module, connected by a thin neck to a cylindrical drive section, with two tubular nacelles connected by a V shape of struts. On the front of the drive section is a dish. It looks very similar.

 

[Samuel T. Cogley]

Here's a significantly improved version of Abrams' Enterprise:

http://www.trekbbs.com/showpost.php?p=2282511&postcount=2210

All credit goes to AdmiralGarak.

 

[Amaris]

Cary,I really think you're overstating and overthinking this. If this is THE ship, then, yes, I am disappointed that it looks less like the original than I had hoped. I showed this picture to a friend of mine who, while not a huge Trek fan, is a sci-fi fan and he said, " It looks the same." So I do believe that it is we, the select few, who are really obsessing about this. The casual fan and non fan are not going to see this and be as bummed out. They want to see a Star Trek movie and are less concerned with these trivial bits of minutae.

Frankly that's what I want to see, too.

There are hardcore fans like myself who like the new ship, too. When I first saw the ship, my brain said "no!", but I said wait, and just kept staring at the ship. I took in every line, every curve, every detail and assimilated it into my mind's eye, reconstructing it and putting it in a 3D environment, simulating maneuvers and in action, and after a little more analysis, I accepted that this is the new Enterprise, and that I could really grow to like it. People need to understand that rejection of the new doesn't mean devotion to the old.

J.

 

[Sector 7]

I am not entirely certain if this has been posted, as I have not been able to keep up with this thread, but...

Great pic! To me it just blends in when shown with all the other Enterprises.

I love the posts that start with a paragraph about how the poster is a "lifelong fan" who "saw Where No Man Has Gone Before when I was a child during the Napoleonic Wars" etcetera, as if it lends gravitas to their "take" on Trek 11. Like anyone gives a flying fuck. Well done, you had a tv in your house. Your medal's in the post.

We're all fans here, each one of us is entitled to like or loath the JJprise for whatever reason.

I agree. I am NO LESS a fan because I like this movie. It makes me angry when a Haters Club member declares that no one loves Trek like they do. I am here because I love Trek. I support this new movie because I love Trek. Haters will always find something or someone to hate. It is in their nature. Just look at the poster's avatar... it tells volumes about their attitude in general.

The main problem I have with this ship is that it just does not really fit with the TOS and Film E. I mean, the E was already refit once and it came out perfect because they just enlarged and stylized the ship in somewhat timeless way. The engineering section looks like a bad Photoshop mistake and the ship, itself looks to pushed together, very stumpy. It just looks clunky and chunky. There is just none of the aesthetic beauty that the other ships in that collage have.

Well I think you can look at it two ways. First that this new design is something which works around the original design, OR you can imagine that this new design REPLACES the original in CANON. So the 60's TV Show was a low budget version of the new design.

Compare these two images, and tell me which looks more natural in the line of Enterprise Ships...

Thanks for a great pic! I think the new Enterprise fits well into this progression.

IF only both these pics were made for a 1440x900 screen... I'd have a new desktop wallpaper!

 

[archeryguy1701]

But that's still a hotlink. Maybe a hotlink to a place designed for it where you put your pictures, but it's still a hotlink.

Well hotlinks "to a place designed for it" are okay, hotlinking to someone else's website isn't

It doesn't even remotely look like the orignal. There's another disadvantage.

I'm all for respecting other people's opinions, but are you kidding me? I would have to say that they're pretty bloody similar. It's not like he took the original Enterprise and churned out the Defiant- he took the original Enterprise and changed a few things on it. It's cool if you don't like what he's done to the ship, but that's a helluva stretch saying that it looks nothing like the original.

 

[starburst]

looks closer to the original than anything past the TMP one.

It even has the neck which sts further back on the engineering hull so the dish sticks out further which the TOS one does, just this one sticks out a bit more again.

 

[cooleddie74]

If you omit the original, classic 1701 from the timeline and canon...YES. The new movie ship fits in extremely well and makes lots of sense. But that's the problem. The older NCC-1701 hasn't been decanonized even if we're supposed to assume and accept this is the same vessel in the same timeline and history.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

I just noticed that the new Enterprise looks better the bigger the picture is and worse the smaller the picture is, wierd.

 

[Jim Steele]

If you omit the original, classic 1701 from the timeline and canon...YES. The new movie ship fits in extremely well and makes lots of sense. But that's the problem. The older NCC-1701 hasn't been decanonized even if we're supposed to assume and accept this is the same vessel in the same timeline and history.

We coped with Bumpy Headed Klingons vs Smooth Headed Klingons for years, didn't we?

Before ENT came along with its (frankly crap) "explanation" for the difference between TOS and TNG-era Klingons, people just accepted it. The make-up improved and the budgets got fatter, we all knew it, we didn't let it bother us.

Even when DS9 put new and old Klingons in the same room and laughed it off, we still accepted it.

You're telling me people won't be able to reconcile the JJprise and the original? Some people used to say "the Klingons always had ridges... we just didn't see them". Well, the ship always looked like that. We were just too preoccupied with the people inside of it to notice.

 

[Sheridan]

If you omit the original, classic 1701 from the timeline and canon...YES. The new movie ship fits in extremely well and makes lots of sense. But that's the problem. The older NCC-1701 hasn't been decanonized even if we're supposed to assume and accept this is the same vessel in the same timeline and history.

We coped with Bumpy Headed Klingons vs Smooth Headed Klingons for years, didn't we?

Before ENT came along with its (frankly crap) "explanation" for the difference between TOS and TNG-era Klingons, people just accepted it. The make-up improved and the budgets got fatter, we all knew it, we didn't let it bother us.

Even when DS9 put new and old Klingons in the same room and laughed it off, we still accepted it.

You're telling me people won't be able to reconcile the JJprise and the original? Some people used to say "the Klingons always had ridges... we just didn't see them". Well, the ship always looked like that. We were just too preoccupied with the people inside of it to notice.

Agreed. People, you have an imagination. Use it. When you see a TOS episode just imagine them in the new sets and ship or when you watch XI just imagine them in the old sets and ships. Whichever you like better. The story is primary. The look is secondary.

 

[M'Sharak]

Good point, Scott. I don't know if anyone is familiar with Gatchaman, but the first series had a fine looking ship for the Phoenix...the same we see in Battle of the Planets. But after the success of the first Gatchaman series, two more were spawned. However, the production company demanded the Phoenix be redesigned to increase toy sales. So, they made is hideous-looking Phoenix that looked like a deranged rooster. It's not surprising that the more favored ship to this day is by far the original Phoenix.

[hotlinked images removed]


I assume the same will be with this Enterprise vs. the TOS Enterprise.

The design change is not anywhere near as radical or stupid for that matter. I cannot believe how irrational some of the responses to this ship are.

I look for any excuse to post pictures of my favorite space ship of all time! Yes, it's actually not the Enterprise!

Posting pics of your favorite ship is well and good (even when off-topic) but be sure that they're hosted on web space belonging to you. Posting inline images hosted on web space to which you aren't authorized to link is against the board policy concerning images, and is generally considered bad form.

 

[EnderAKH]

We coped with Bumpy Headed Klingons vs Smooth Headed Klingons for years, didn't we?

Before ENT came along with its (frankly crap) "explanation" for the difference between TOS and TNG-era Klingons, people just accepted it. The make-up improved and the budgets got fatter, we all knew it, we didn't let it bother us.

Even when DS9 put new and old Klingons in the same room and laughed it off, we still accepted it.

You're telling me people won't be able to reconcile the JJprise and the original? Some people used to say "the Klingons always had ridges... we just didn't see them". Well, the ship always looked like that. We were just too preoccupied with the people inside of it to notice.

Or how about the 1701-A bridge changing from ST4 to ST5 to ST6.

 

[JuanBolio]

We coped with Bumpy Headed Klingons vs Smooth Headed Klingons for years, didn't we?

Before ENT came along with its (frankly crap) "explanation" for the difference between TOS and TNG-era Klingons, people just accepted it. The make-up improved and the budgets got fatter, we all knew it, we didn't let it bother us.

Even when DS9 put new and old Klingons in the same room and laughed it off, we still accepted it.

You're telling me people won't be able to reconcile the JJprise and the original? Some people used to say "the Klingons always had ridges... we just didn't see them". Well, the ship always looked like that. We were just too preoccupied with the people inside of it to notice.

Or how about the 1701-A bridge changing from ST4 to ST5 to ST6.

Well, the bridge modules swap out, and a lot of people (myself included) think the Enterprise looked great as it was, and would've been good on the big screen with some simple detailing and minor changes. I'm okay with the new design, I just don't think its inherently better because it has a more "modern" aesthetic.

 

[Captain59]

Hey mod...I run that site with the Gatchaman images. Please put them back.