Hercules and Xena...thoughts?
- Thread starter RoJoHen
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And why do you keep writing the characters names wrong?
You'll probably enjoy "Pride Comes Before a Brawl" and "The Gauntlet". Other than that there are no real standout episodes in season 1. Even PCBAB is pretty lackluster, but it's the first real Iolaus episode so it gets a few bonus points for that. The Gauntlet is IMO the first great episode of Hercules.
Season 2 is pretty much hit-miss-miss for its entirety -- one good/great episode for every two stinkers. But there are some real gems to find. The King of Thieves, Once More a Hero, and The Other Side are probably the best the season has to offer.
Season 3 is where the series finally gets great. The writers and actors finally get comfortable with their unique blend of comedy and drama and this shows in the quality of the episodes. And this level of quality continues up until the series finale.
Xena arc in the end of season 1 perhaps. Season 2 is weak, in that "just another 90's show" way. Imagine Voyager in Mythical Times. But in mid-season 3, with another arc the show gets strong. And season 4 and 5 have all sorts of wacky episodes. Season 4 is really TEH SEASON!
And now I have this urge to watch the show again.
It's difficult to say, as I haven't watched either of these shows in some time (plus I came into them a little late, so I missed some of the earlier episodes). I don't think there's even a consensus on the matter within fandom (unlike with, say, The X-Files finding its footing around "Ice", and Buffy finding it with "Angel" and then really taking off with "Surprise/Innocence"). The episodes with Xena are pretty good (especially the aforementioned "The Gauntlet")... they're towards the end of the first season.
It's easier to say which seasons one prefers. With Hercules, the first season is fun, if somewhat slight and overly goofy. Season 2 is a bit better (though not by a huge amount), and things become more solid in Season 3.
Season 4, unfortunately, was wildly uneven, with a higher-than-average amount of
-episodes (this was somewhat understandable, though, as Kevin Sorbo suffered an aneurysm during this season which rendered him out of commission for a while, and forcing the producers to rework a number of episodes and write Herc out or limit his involvement). The season ended on a fairly high note, though, and Season 5 was a vast improvement -- IMO, the series' best. Without getting too spoilery, the producers shook things up: the show got a bit darker, and they had Herc travel to some interesting locations outside of Greece.Season 6 was only 8 episodes long, and it was okay... more along the lines of what we got in Seasons 2 & 3.
With Xena, things were a bit more solid than Herc right out of the gate: Season 1 was decent (although I missed a few episodes), Season 2 was pretty good, despite facing a similar problem to the Hercules Season 4-issue: Lucy Lawless fractured her pelvis while taping a segment for The Tonight Show with Jay Leno, and episodes had to be reworked to accommodate her recovery; Lawless later joked that she (Xena) was "in other people's bodies for weeks!" Ultimately, it had little impact on the series.
Season 3 was even better... probably the show's best. Again, without getting too spoilery, I will just mention a few things: there was a musical episode about mid-season, and I daresay it's almost on par with "Once More, With Feeling". Really good stuff. Also, this season started the Dahak-storyline, which weaved in and out of both shows for a couple of years.
Season 4 was solid, but not quite up to the standards previously set up by the series. Season 5 tends to get bashed a lot, mostly for the introduction of some Judeo-Christian themes (it didn't really bug me, though... it seemed a natural progression, given the tendency of these shows to fiddle with a variety of mythologies and telescope certain key historical events or turning points, in this case the decline of polytheism and the rise of monotheism). I enjoyed it... like with Hercules' fifth season, they shook things up (although it bears mentioning that some of the storyline developments were necessitated by certain real-life factors -- if you get that far, you'll see what I mean); plus I personally found the end-of-the-season arc to be very entertaining, but I'm sure many fans will disagree with me on that.
Season 6 was the show's last, and I think that was for the best: it was a bit of a letdown compared to previous seasons... signs of creative fatigue were definitely showing. The final episode was... a bit controversial. I myself had mixed feelings towards it. But again, no spoilers -- I'll let you see for yourself, if you watch the shows in their entirety.
So, those are my personal thoughts on Hercules and Xena, for whatever they're worth.
^Much appreciated!
I've watched the first 4 episodes. I'm enjoying it, but it's not grabbing me like I want it to. I might need to find a secondary show to watch when in between episodes.
Let me ask, are Hercules and Xena like Buffy and Angel were with crossover episodes? When I get to that point, should I alternate between Hercules and Xena? That's how I watched Buffy and Angel, and I definitely think it paid off more than it would have had I watched them separately.
I've watched the first 4 episodes. I'm enjoying it, but it's not grabbing me like I want it to. I might need to find a secondary show to watch when in between episodes.
Let me ask, are Hercules and Xena like Buffy and Angel were with crossover episodes? When I get to that point, should I alternate between Hercules and Xena? That's how I watched Buffy and Angel, and I definitely think it paid off more than it would have had I watched them separately.
Kinda but not really. Hercules and Xena piss all over continuity. There is a continuity, but it's looney continuity. There are some crossovers in early Xena seasons for example. A guy Herc fought in his show, appears later on Xena (the dead king guy). But then they establish their own different universes.
Hard to explain. There are characters and items that cross over, but when the shows are in later seasons it's like two different worlds. Xena goes to Hell and becomes Satan while Herc has crazy adventures in mirror universe with mermaids or something. There's something off between those two shows. Herc pretends most of the time that it is in ancient world, while Xena pretends it's in last few decades of B.C.
The most memorable crossovers are in Xena season 3 and Herc season 4, where the Xena baddie causes a really exciting two-parter in Hercules. And then there's Xena season 2/Herc season 3 thing where Callisto crosses over and makes a choice that changes her into something different for her next battle with Xena.
Hard to explain. There are characters and items that cross over, but when the shows are in later seasons it's like two different worlds. Xena goes to Hell and becomes Satan while Herc has crazy adventures in mirror universe with mermaids or something. There's something off between those two shows. Herc pretends most of the time that it is in ancient world, while Xena pretends it's in last few decades of B.C.
The most memorable crossovers are in Xena season 3 and Herc season 4, where the Xena baddie causes a really exciting two-parter in Hercules. And then there's Xena season 2/Herc season 3 thing where Callisto crosses over and makes a choice that changes her into something different for her next battle with Xena.
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Yep. Conveniently, this happened shortly after they'd shot an episode where Xena had switched bodies with her archenemy Callisto (Hudson Leick). All they had to do was slightly reshoot the ending so that Xena was still stuck in Callisto's body at the end, and then rewrite the next episode to incorporate that fact, with a scene at the end using a stand-in, voiceover, and stock footage to establish Xena's rather sudden and inexplicable restoration. Plus I think they did a couple of other Xena-light episodes, but staggered them through the season so they didn't all air at once.
Anyway, Hudson Leick did a really amazing job imitating Lucy Lawless's Xena delivery. They both did a great job playing each other in the body switch episode, but Leick was just uncanny in both of the episodes where she played Xena.
There is only one big major crossover that you'd have to watch one specific episode of one series and then one of the other in that order, and it'll take quite awhile before you'll be at that point. My suggestion for now is to watch all of season 1 of Herc, then starting with season 1 of that, watch one Herc disc then one Xena disc, and just alternate back and forth.
Agreed! Hudson was was an amazing find for the show. And Callisto's character arc, which unfortunately requires many episodes of both Xena and Herc to get in full, was just astonishing.
Okay, I'm gonna have to try to use that in a sentence now.
Speaking of which - here's a chart I made of the people met, places and events depicted in Xena and Herc (mostly Xena, 'cause I didn't watch all of Herc), charting the time periods those people actually lived in. I guess it's a little spoilerish, but not a lot:
http://www.inpayne.com/charts/xenachrt.jpg
From this we can see that Xena time-hopped randomly between 1250 BC and 60AD, with major stops in 5th century BC and the 1st century BC. Let's just ignore Genghis Khan, shall we?
^ Neat Chart - great idea.
But then there are several semi-mythical people she meets also. Was it Xena or Hercules who meet King Midas? I think there are probably more such characters.
There is also a story where either Herc or Xena are present at Christ's birth. Either they are the Three Wise Men or they guide the wise men or something.
But then there are several semi-mythical people she meets also. Was it Xena or Hercules who meet King Midas? I think there are probably more such characters.
There is also a story where either Herc or Xena are present at Christ's birth. Either they are the Three Wise Men or they guide the wise men or something.
I could be wrong, but I think that was actually an Iolaus-centric episode of HERC.
But yeah, real history wasn't really relevant here. Both series took place in a fantasy realm, not in the actual past. The real Ancient Greece didn't look a thing like New Zealand. This was a separate reality all its own, so they could play as fast and loose with history as they wanted.
^But what was totally freaky about that one was that it was actually "told" using clips from the Stanley Kubrick Spartacus feature film! That was "Athens City Academy of the Performing Bards," which I believe was the very first example of the shows' zany approach to clip shows (not counting the lame fifth Hercules movie). Instead of merely cramming it with clips from past episodes of Xena, they used a mix of clips from HERC/XENA and other old movies, culminating in the Spartacus scenes. For instance, there was one "bard" whose stories were all action clips from old Steve Reeves Hercules movies.
There were occasional crossovers, but not to the extent that there were on Buffy and Angel -- it didn't seem like the separate writing teams were as much in synch as the ones for the Slayerverse shows. Hercules and Iolaus popped up a couple of times on Xena, and likewise Xena and Gabrielle made an appearance or two on Hercules (thought not always as their usual characters... well, you'll see). Plus there was the stuff that Jimmy Bob mentioned: the villainous character of Callisto first appeared in Season 1 of Xena and reappeared in Season 2. She also showed up on Hercules later that same season (its third), and from there she popped up on both series every now and then for the next couple of years (she was, however, first and foremost a Xena villain). There was also the Dahak storyline which started on Xena in its third season and weaved in and out of both shows for a couple of seasons.
Correct. Iolaus was suggested to be one of the Three Wise Men in the episode "A Star to Guide Them".
Ah, I loved these shows -- the birth of Christ, the Trojan War, the rise of Julius Caesar... one wouldn't expect to see all these things in one series and its spinoff, but somehow, they pulled it off.One thing to keep in mind is that these shows are very much of the 90s, and they were syndicated to boot, so you definitely shouldn't expect to see the kind of stuff that's a bit more common in TV today (i.e. complex ongoing storylines, multifaceted characters with a lot of layers, etc.). As I've said, these shows were generally fun, and could sometimes deliver effective drama, but they're definitely not as deep as shows like Buffy and Angel, or, from what I gather (as I haven't actually watched them) BSG and Farscape.
I loved Jack of All Trades, m'self. Of course, it's mostly carried by the sheer force of charisma on the part of Bruce Campbell and Angela Dodson.
I've been meaning to go back for the past couple of years and rewatch both of these series. I know there are some episodes I missed, but in general I saw most of them first run. As a kid, it was part of my appointment viewing for a good couple of years... but then again I watched a lot of TV back then and always stuff outside my "demographic"
Father Dowling Mysteries is still a childhood favorite that no one else I know my age ever watched. I had to of been 9 or 10 I guess.
Father Dowling Mysteries is still a childhood favorite that no one else I know my age ever watched. I had to of been 9 or 10 I guess.
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