Help remembering an old fan starship design?

[Christopher]

Hi, all. I've recently remembered seeing an old conjectural design for a Starfleet vessel that was kind of unusual. As I recall, it was basically like the secondary/engineering hull and engines of a Constitution-class starship, with no saucer and no dorsal, but a bridge module and impulse engine assembly atop the hull where the dorsal would've connected. I'm pretty sure it was in some fan-published reference book from the '80s, something I used to have but don't anymore. It might have been in the Star Trek 20th Anniversary Tribute book by Hal Schuster, from Files Magazine. That would be an odd place for it to be, but I do recall those Files Magazine things sometimes having incongruous additions that didn't quite fit their themes. Though I could be confusing the ship I'm remembering with something else that was in that book.

Anyway, I've been trying to find it online, but with no luck. I looked all through the LCARS Blueprint Database site, and nothing. There are tons of fan designs with saucers but no engineering hulls, but nothing that has an engineering hull and no saucer. So my inability to track this thing down has made me more eager to find it. Does anyone recognize the description of the ship design I'm talking about? Can anyone direct me to images of it or something equivalent to it?

 

[backstept]

have you browsed through shipschematics.net?
the ship doesn't sound familiar to me, but it's a good place to start

 

[Gepard]

I don't have an answer for you, but your description made me think of the NSEA Protector from Galaxy Quest.

 

[Christopher]

have you browsed through shipschematics.net?
the ship doesn't sound familiar to me, but it's a good place to start

Oh, thanks! That was quick. Here it is:

http://shipschematics.net/startrek/images/federation/corvette_balclutha.jpg

And I was right, it was from the Schuster anniversary book.

Bookmarking that site now...

 

[Vance]

Why... why would you LOOK for something that ugly?

 

[Christopher]

Why... why would you LOOK for something that ugly?

Because I halfway remembered it and I wanted to figure out what it was I'd seen and where it came from.

And I think it's a rather interesting idea for a "kitbash" kind of ship class. Like I said, fan designers have done tons of Starfleet ships with standard saucers and either variations on the engineering hull or none at all, but the idea of something based on the engineering hull without the saucer is apparently pretty rare -- surprisingly so, since that's kind of the idea behind the Galaxy-class battle hull.

And I don't think it looks that bad. It's not so great in overhead and front views, but a lot of ships aren't. The profile view is okay, though. And I can see what Gep Malakai meant about the Protector resemblance. Anyway, I've seen fan designs that were uglier. Canonical designs too, like the ships ILM designed for First Contact.

 

[Dukhat]

Anyway, I've seen fan designs that were uglier. Canonical designs too, like the ships ILM designed for First Contact.

THANK YOU! I thought I was the only person who hated those ships. The only ships that were worse were those ridiculous designs from Last Unicorn Games.

*EDIT* I did like the Akira just like everyone else, but for numerous reasons I hate it now just as much as I hate the other three designs.

 

[Vance]

Like I said, fan designers have done tons of Starfleet ships with standard saucers and either variations on the engineering hull or none at all, but the idea of something based on the engineering hull without the saucer is apparently pretty rare -- surprisingly so, since that's kind of the idea behind the Galaxy-class battle hull.

Yeah, but there's one big problem, and one reason the saucer is the dominant piece... that's where the crew is! Reusing the Enterprise's secondary hull and just slapping a bridge on impulse deck on it kind of ignores the features within the hull.

Anyway, I've seen fan designs that were uglier. Canonical designs too, like the ships ILM designed for First Contact.

Just because there are uglier designs (believe me, I've likely redrawn them once or twice) doesn't mean that this one is any LESS ugly than it is. :P

 

[Patrickivan]

Why... why would you LOOK for something that ugly?

Because I halfway remembered it and I wanted to figure out what it was I'd seen and where it came from.

And I think it's a rather interesting idea for a "kitbash" kind of ship class. Like I said, fan designers have done tons of Starfleet ships with standard saucers and either variations on the engineering hull or none at all, but the idea of something based on the engineering hull without the saucer is apparently pretty rare -- surprisingly so, since that's kind of the idea behind the Galaxy-class battle hull.

And I don't think it looks that bad. It's not so great in overhead and front views, but a lot of ships aren't. The profile view is okay, though. And I can see what Gep Malakai meant about the Protector resemblance. Anyway, I've seen fan designs that were uglier. Canonical designs too, like the ships ILM designed for First Contact.

It kinda looks to me like where the idea for the defiant could have come from. All power. Small crew. Short tours. And a smaller profile and more agile with the bulk of the saucer gone.

Anyway, I've seen fan designs that were uglier. Canonical designs too, like the ships ILM designed for First Contact.

THANK YOU! I thought I was the only person who hated those ships. The only ships that were worse were those ridiculous designs from Last Unicorn Games.

*EDIT* I did like the Akira just like everyone else, but for numerous reasons I hate it now just as much as I hate the other three designs.

Dudes- you're not alone. Trust me. But shhh- you'll get reamed for saying so.

[

QUOTE=Vance;4901728]

Like I said, fan designers have done tons of Starfleet ships with standard saucers and either variations on the engineering hull or none at all, but the idea of something based on the engineering hull without the saucer is apparently pretty rare -- surprisingly so, since that's kind of the idea behind the Galaxy-class battle hull.

Yeah, but there's one big problem, and one reason the saucer is the dominant piece... that's where the crew is! Reusing the Enterprise's secondary hull and just slapping a bridge on impulse deck on it kind of ignores the features within the hull.

Anyway, I've seen fan designs that were uglier. Canonical designs too, like the ships ILM designed for First Contact.

Just because there are uglier designs (believe me, I've likely redrawn them once or twice) doesn't mean that this one is any LESS ugly than it is. :P

[/QUOTE]

Loosing the saucer is no different then all the designs where there's just a saucer and warp nacelles. Like I said above, make it a strike ship used for short tours, reduce the crew (no sciences, exploration related, xenobiological, et c), just command, engineering, and tactical (some medical of course), and this ship is nothing but raw power. And it's still not THAT small. The cargo areas would be converted to appropriate use because of the reduced crew supply requirements. There's more then enough room to shove say 80 people in there.

I'll say the one issue I have (other then coming up with a new design as opposed to using an existing space-frame. Though that is a history in Starfleet), are the nacelles locations. They're just not quite right...

 

[Christopher]

*EDIT* I did like the Akira just like everyone else, but for numerous reasons I hate it now just as much as I hate the other three designs.

I've always hated the Akira. It's a hideous, hunchbacked ship, very unpleasantly proportioned.

Yeah, but there's one big problem, and one reason the saucer is the dominant piece... that's where the crew is! Reusing the Enterprise's secondary hull and just slapping a bridge on impulse deck on it kind of ignores the features within the hull.

Depends on what you say is inside the engineering hull. FJ's blueprints included duplicates of pretty much all the major functions of the primary hull. Sure, the refit version is mostly hangar and cargo space as well as engineering, but that doesn't mean it always has to be. If you wanted a ship design that had a relatively small crew and relatively little cargo space, I don't see why it couldn't work.

Just because there are uglier designs (believe me, I've likely redrawn them once or twice) doesn't mean that this one is any LESS ugly than it is. :P

Eye of the beholder.

I'll say the one issue I have (other then coming up with a new design as opposed to using an existing space-frame. Though that is a history in Starfleet), are the nacelles locations. They're just not quite right...

Hmm. Where would you put them, then? Keeping them in the standard Connie configuration would leave the design rather unbalanced. At least I think you'd need shorter pylons.

 

[Vance]

THANK YOU! I thought I was the only person who hated those ships. The only ships that were worse were those ridiculous designs from Last Unicorn Games.

I'm not sure if the designs for LUC's games were so bad (since they were mostly required to be canonical), but the artwork certainly was.

 

[Vance]

Loosing the saucer is no different then all the designs where there's just a saucer and warp nacelles.

The main issue is that the secondary hull (as shown in the graphic) is a large hangar bay, a huge cargo section, and a little bit of space up front for sensors and labs. If Hal hadn't used the exact secondary hull, with every little external detail, it would be more fudgible on its capabilities.

It wouldn't have taken too much to clean up this design and make it more passible, but that little extra effort was pretty well beyond Hal's modus operandi. Reference his TOS ships...

 

[Patrickivan]

[

QUOTE=Christopher;4901773]

I'll say the one issue I have (other then coming up with a new design as opposed to using an existing space-frame. Though that is a history in Starfleet), are the nacelles locations. They're just not quite right...

Hmm. Where would you put them, then? Keeping them in the standard Connie configuration would leave the design rather unbalanced. At least I think you'd need shorter pylons.

[/QUOTE]

It's really the line of sight issue I have. I'd have to play around with it. I'd want to strike a balance between the original concept of the volitility of the nacelles (though I think that was when there was an idea that the m/arc's were in them- TOS ones anyway), warp geometry blah blah, and aesthetics.

Loosing the saucer is no different then all the designs where there's just a saucer and warp nacelles.

The main issue is that the secondary hull (as shown in the graphic) is a large hangar bay, a huge cargo section, and a little bit of space up front for sensors and labs. If Hal hadn't used the exact secondary hull, with every little external detail, it would be more fudgible on its capabilities.

It wouldn't have taken too much to clean up this design and make it more passible, but that little extra effort was pretty well beyond Hal's modus operandi. Reference his TOS ships...

I agree... The shuttle bay would be reduced to just the back end- no lower repair bay or beyond the bulkhead... The lower lounge- gone. Window arrangement would no doubt have to change. Even the bridge should be different. That's something that should be more then a simple add-on.

You know- now I'm kinda getting into making this puppy fly. I can't wait to get back to my mother's (NO- I don't live with her. I'm house sitting! I swear. I'm married. To a real woman who accepts my nerdness! Children- dogs- et c), download google SU and get cracking!

 

[Dac]

Heh, I rather like it...

 

[Vance]

Dac makes God cry!

 

[Christopher]

Dac, did you have those already, or did you whip them up just now?

 

[publiusr]

I really like the idea of relocating the Impulse deck. That is similar to Red Bell Peppers re-imagined Constitution class.
http://www.scifi-meshes.com/forums/showthread.php?65856-Enterprise-WIP


Here is something similar--the Carver class:
http://federationreference.prophpbb.com/topic135.html

Now I really like those nacelles. What some of you might do is to flip that upside down, and put an ABBE saucer atop it. There, both Primary and secondary hulls would have their own impulse decks. The aft torpedo bay would be between the widely spaced impulse vents on ABBE, that are split apart for its spar aft.

Fitted atop a Connie hull, that gap would have an aft torp deck between the vents.

The upside down Carver Hull would have the Secondary Hull at the bottom/ventral section, to aid in core jettison perhaps. The STO Excalibur has a similar secondary hull.

To me, the real value of these saucer-less designs is in showing how other structures can be relocated... but keep the saucer anyway

Misc
http://www.scifi-meshes.com/forums/showthread.php?40197-Kobayashi-Maru-From-Fan-Blue-Prints

 

[Dac]

Dac, did you have those already, or did you whip them up just now?

I have my TMP Connie, and I just kitbashed it just now in about 10 mins.

 

[Dukhat]

I'm not sure if the designs for LUC's games were so bad (since they were mostly required to be canonical), but the artwork certainly was.

Bad artwork aside, the main problem with LUG's designs (at least in my opinion) was that they weren't very true to the conjectural classes they were meant to represent (e.g. their designs for the Apollo and Deneva classes IIRC were far more advanced-looking than their registry numbers made them...the Deneva in particular looked nothing more than a rearrangement of Akira-class parts, when the class only had a four-digit registry, contemporary to the Constitution class).

 

[Avon]

i like this design. it's like the sixth doctor's coat of starfleet.