Help Identifying a Film

[Zachary Smith]

I saw only a bit of this probably last summer some time. It's an older film, black and white. I'd guess maybe mid-1940's. It concerns the actions of a man who, for reasons I didn't get, wants to frame a second man for his own murder. The scene I saw involved the two men talking in a rather luxurious drawing-room type setting. They are talking like friends until the man setting things up knows his butler or footman or whatever he is comes close enough to hear. He then provokes the man he's framing with an argument, making sure the servant hears the commotion. As soon as he knows that is accomplished, he apologizes to the man he's framing and resumes his friendly demeanor. At one point, he asks the man he's framing to pull a draw cord, the handle of which he's substituted with a knife. He wants to get his victim's fingerprints on the "murder" weapon. The schemer asks his victim to leave by the garden exit and asks him to take his car and leave it by the rail-station (I believe) as he needs it repaired the following day and the garage is near that site. He does this so the authorities will believe the victim has stolen the car after fleeing the scene across the garden. After the victim leaves, the plotter trashes the room to make it look like a struggle occurred, retrieves his knife with the fingerprints intact, pinches it between the door and the door-frame and thrusts himself upon it, stabbing himself to death. Of course, when the authorities discover him, he's laying on the floor, dead, every indication seeming that he was murdered by the last person the butler saw with him. The drawing room door is locked from the inside, the door (window?) leading to the garden is open and footprints from the man being framed leading away.

Like I said, I think it was probably something from the 1940's. I caught a little bit of it on cable and by the time I realized I'd gotten interested in it, I was off doing something else. I don't even think I was paying that much attention to the TV at the time and only later did I realize that whatever it was, it looked pretty good. Couldn't even tell you who might have been in it. If anyone can help, I'd appreciate it. Looked like a classic of some sort. Thanks

 

[Zachary Smith]

Seriously? No one knows?

 

[PsychoPere]

Some parts of it sound vaguely like The Lady from Shanghai, but I'm not well-versed in 1940s cinema beyond a few films that I watched for a Politics & Film class this past semester.

 

[SiorX]

Not what you're looking for, but that 'stabbed himself in the back with a knife wedged in a door' trick was used as the B-plot in an ep of CSI. (4 x 17 'XX') I've done a little Googling and can't find anything to say if that's an homage to this old film, but it might be a lead to look into if regular searching isn't working.

I ran this by my father, who's generally a terrifying encyclopedia of all films made prior to 1960, but no luck on this one.

 

[Zachary Smith]

Man, I guess I picked a toughie. Thanks for all the thoughts. Still hoping someone can tell me what it was.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

Outline of The Lady From Shanghai (1947) from Wikipedia:

Plot

Michael O'Hara (Orson Welles) meets the beautiful blonde Elsa (Rita Hayworth) as she rides a horse-drawn coach in Central Park. Shortly thereafter three hooligans waylay the coach, Michael rescues her and escorts her home. Michael reveals he is a seaman and learns Elsa and her husband, the famous disabled criminal defense attorney Arthur Bannister (Everett Sloane), are newly arrived in New York City from Shanghai. They are on their way to San Francisco via the Panama Canal. Michael, attracted to Elsa despite misgivings is persuaded to sign on as an able seaman aboard Bannister's yacht.
After setting sail, they are joined on the boat by Bannister's law partner, George Grisby (Glenn Anders), who proposes that Michael "murder" him in a plot to fake his own death and collect the insurance money for himself. He promises Michael $5,000 and explains that since he wouldn't really be dead and thus there would be no corpse, Michael couldn't be convicted of murder. Michael agrees to this, intending to use the money to run away with Elsa, with whom he's begun a relationship. Grisby has Michael sign a confession.
On the eve of the crime, Sydney Broome, a private investigator who has been following Elsa on her husband's orders, confronts Grisby. Broome has learned of Grisby's plan and that he is actually intending to murder Bannister, frame Michael for the crime and escape suspicion by pretending to have also been murdered. Grisby shoots Broome and leaves him for dead. Unaware of what has happened, Michael proceeds with the night's arrangement and sees Grisby off on a motorboat before shooting a gun into the air to draw attention to himself. Meanwhile, a severely injured Broome goes to Elsa for help and warns her that Grisby is intending to kill her husband.
Thinking the plan is done with, Michael calls to inform Elsa but is surprised to find Broome on the other end of the line. Broome's dying words are to warn Michael that Grisby was setting him up. Michael rushes to Bannister's office in time to see Bannister is alive but that the police are removing Grisby's body from the premises. The police instantly find evidence that Michael was the killer, including his confession and take him away.
At trial, Bannister has offered to act as Michael's attorney and feels the case is more likely to be won if he pleads justifiable homicide, due to all the evidence against his client. As the trial progresses Bannister learns of the extent of his wife's relationship with Michael and ultimately takes pleasure in his suspicion that they will lose the case. Bannister also indicates that he knows the real killer's identity. Michael is able to escape from the courtroom by feigning a suicide attempt before the verdict is to be announced. Elsa follows and she and Michael hide out in a theater in Chinatown. Elsa calls some Chinese friends to meet her. As they wait and pretend to watch the show, Michael discovers that she killed Grisby. Elsa's Chinese friends arrive and take Michael, unconscious to an abandoned Fun House. When he wakes, he realizes that Grisby and Elsa had been planning to murder Bannister and frame him for the crime but that Broome's involvement ruined the scheme and obliged Elsa to kill Grisby for her own protection.
The film features a surreal climactic shootout in a hall of mirrors, the Magic Mirror Maze, in which Elsa is mortally wounded and Bannister is killed. Heartbroken, Michael leaves presuming that events since the trial will clear him of any crimes.

 

[Zachary Smith]

^^

I don't think so, but thanks. I don't remember seeing any females, though if I had I'd have remembered Rita Hayworth ("Gilda? Are you decent?" "ME?!?!"). I'm certain also I would have recalled if Orson Wells had been one of the men involved in the scene I watched.

 

[The Lensman]

There's something familiar about it, but I've had no luck googling either. The only thing I can recommend, if you haven't done it already, is maybe trying the forums over at Turner Classic Movies (TCM.com).

 

[RJDiogenes]

I would suggest TCM, too. That's probably where it aired. If we had an idea of who any of those three actors were, it would be pretty easy.

 

[Finn]

Was Jimmy Stewart in it?

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

Jimmy Stewart was in every movie in the 40's

 

[Greg Cox]

Jimmy Stewart was in every movie in the 40's

I thought he was great in the THE WOLF MAN . . . . .

(Just kidding!)

 

[Zachary Smith]

Nah, no Jimmy Stewart. I don't recall any identifiable actors--that'd make it easy to track down through IMDB. Now, that doesn't mean there weren't "name-actors" in it. Some of these old-time guys look familiar but I can't name them--or I recognize the name but can't put a face to it (someone like Robert Montgomery come to mind). People like Orson Wells, Rita Hayworth or Jimmy Stewart though, no way. They're way to recognizable to be missed.

 

[McCoy]

American or British actors?

 

[Zachary Smith]

American or British actors?

To the best of my recollection the actors were using that 1940's kind of pseudo-formal affected dialect that no one actually spoke in real life and only appeared in movies. If I remember right, the actors were American but it's possible they had light British accents. A lot films were so mannered in those days it can be hard to tell.

That's a good question though because the more I consider it, the more I do feel it might have had a British vibe to it--what with the expansive drawing room, the pull-cord to summon domestic help, the butler or footman or whatever he was, the man set up exiting through the garden and leaving the car down by the train station etc.

I'm going to lean toward the early 1940's also as it seems to me the entire scene I watched was shot almost exclusively from one side of the room, with very little camera movement. The exit to the rest of the house was stage left (this is also where the villain wedged the knife-handle in the door hinge to stab himself and frame the other man) and the window(?) door exiting outside to the garden was stage right. Seems there was quite an impressive desk in the center of the room also. The pull-cord where the villain hid the knife in order to get his victim's fingerprints was at the far side of the room opposite the camera and it was a knotted white rope with a ball and fringe at the end. The villain had jammed the blade of the knife into the end of it to hide it there and asked the victim to pull the cord, which is how he got his prints on the knife handle.

That's all I can recall right now. Thanks everyone who is trying to help find this thing. I appreciate it.

 

[RJDiogenes]

I tried doing a Google search with the appropriate key words and came up with this thread.

 

[scotpens]

American or British actors?

To the best of my recollection the actors were using that 1940's kind of pseudo-formal affected dialect that no one actually spoke in real life and only appeared in movies.

“Affected dialect”? I’m afraid I don’t quite get your meaning, sir!

 

[Mordi]

I too have been wondering about this film for years. No-one I've mentioned it too recognises it and I've tried to research it but to no avail. The knife in the pull cord was such a strong image that really stuck with me. I too cannot recall any actors or if it was British or not. So I can't help accept to say ME TOO!!!!!! I AM DYING TO KNOW THE NAME OF THIS FILM

 

[Spot's Meow]

I couldn't figure out what the film is, but I did find a few more details about it from somebody else searching for it online. It would seem that the two men are brothers, fighting over the same woman. If you search this page for the word butler, it is the second post containing that word.

http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/2223889

 

[Mordi]

Someone on IMDb solved it - it's rage in heaven!!!!!!!!!!