Absolutely.
Heating rocks with phasers. Once or twice.
- Thread starter Ofthebawdy
- Start date
Did they mention phaser power packs prior to that episode?He also converted phaser energy into an engine propulsion source in TOS S1 - "The Galileo 7" (And talk about a plot complication...you're telling me he couldn't just rig something to plug the phaser power packs into/onto for the system to draw the energy that way? No...he had to lay there and somehow fire the Phaser INTO the engine core.)
If she were on Voyager, she would have gotten it.
So the Galileo has impulse power?
We know that at some stage the Galileo must have Warp Drive to travel between star systems. Does it have Warp Power at this time but is not able to use it because its in a star system?
Anyway I suppose the way they drain the phasers into Galileo's engine must be similar to the way phasers absorb the energy from power packs but much less efficient.
I'm assuming the burning involves ejecting ionised particles and firing at them. All with one click of a button.
Logically thinking a shuttlecraft should not have warp capabilities! It's like a small vehicle used for ferrying a group of people down to a planet especially if the transporters aren't working properly or are inhibited in some way due to outside phenomenon, rather than an elongated car or motor home exploring the galaxy! 
JB
JB
Then again, ships have boats. There is no fundamental difference in propulsion: a sailing ship might have boats with sails, a galley could be paired with boats relying on oars, a steamship could have a steam launch etc. Mixing and matching is always possible, but it's not as if the shuttles of Trek would need to be something fundamentally different, such as helicopters on ships.
Shuttles, like boats, could have a wide range of uses, both dependent and independent. And perhaps the "letter class" nomenclature in TOS and DSC is indicative of that? A is a giant thing worthy of Emperors and with transporters aboard, C can do interstellar quite easily, while the humble midget F may be slow and short-ranged but need not be limited to sublight.
Apropos of the thread at hand, phasers aboard shuttles don't appear to be a thing in the rough DSC/TOS/TAS era. Save for hand phasers, that is. When shuttles get armed in DSC, this requires giant bolt-on modules. Now there's one big difference between the mothership and the auxiliary...
Timo Saloniemi
Shuttles, like boats, could have a wide range of uses, both dependent and independent. And perhaps the "letter class" nomenclature in TOS and DSC is indicative of that? A is a giant thing worthy of Emperors and with transporters aboard, C can do interstellar quite easily, while the humble midget F may be slow and short-ranged but need not be limited to sublight.
Apropos of the thread at hand, phasers aboard shuttles don't appear to be a thing in the rough DSC/TOS/TAS era. Save for hand phasers, that is. When shuttles get armed in DSC, this requires giant bolt-on modules. Now there's one big difference between the mothership and the auxiliary...
Timo Saloniemi
Where do they fit a Warp Drive on tiny baby shuttle Galileo?Logically thinking a shuttlecraft should not have warp capabilities! It's like a small vehicle used for ferrying a group of people down to a planet especially if the transporters aren't working properly or are inhibited in some way due to outside phenomenon, rather than an elongated car or motor home exploring the galaxy!
JB
I mean we've seen sort of the innards in "Galileo 7" and there's not much room there. You know in TOS and TNG and VOY the Warp drive is seen taking up this huge area and having cold restarts and drama this drama that, something that could transport you back in time and not something you think could be tucked in the back of a tiny (already TARDIS like) shuttle. And do all warp drives need dilithium? If there's a dilithium crystal in the shuttle couldn't they use that one when the ones in the Enterprise fail.
Even one of the Voyager shuttles are small (Galileo size) - they abandoned one on a moon in an episode I watched today (I kept thinking don't beam up get in the shuttle and get it back to Voyager - anyway I digress).
We don't know what sort of power a warp drive needs, but we know that there are options and alternatives - the most recently thanks to DSC which tells us that dilithium-regulated annihilation is the best choice by far.
We further know that a warp core goes with a warp drive - but also, thanks to DS9 "The Sound of Her Voice", that a shuttle can omit the warp core even though it has obvious warp coil sets similar to those of its mothership bolted on. So we're free to choose between
a) the shuttle being warp-incapable by design despite having the coil sets (in which case all sorts of shuttles with blatant nacelles might be warp-incapable) and
b) the warp core being easily removable from a shuttle even if not from a starship.
We have seen some really large warp cores. But some fit inside torpedo or probe casings (or at least systems analogous to warp cores do, with these torps and probes having independent warp acceleration capabilities), so size is not an issue. And various graphics do suggest the presence of compact, flat ones on shuttles.
I wouldn't sweat the placement of a warp power source on a Class F, really. It may go underfloor or inside the aft machinery wall of the aft compartment, or it may reside in the nacelles. But dilithium is never mentioned in connection with shuttles, and Class F is said to operate on "ion power" in TOS "The Menagerie" anyway, perhaps never annihilating any antimatter at all.
Timo Saloniemi
We further know that a warp core goes with a warp drive - but also, thanks to DS9 "The Sound of Her Voice", that a shuttle can omit the warp core even though it has obvious warp coil sets similar to those of its mothership bolted on. So we're free to choose between
a) the shuttle being warp-incapable by design despite having the coil sets (in which case all sorts of shuttles with blatant nacelles might be warp-incapable) and
b) the warp core being easily removable from a shuttle even if not from a starship.
We have seen some really large warp cores. But some fit inside torpedo or probe casings (or at least systems analogous to warp cores do, with these torps and probes having independent warp acceleration capabilities), so size is not an issue. And various graphics do suggest the presence of compact, flat ones on shuttles.
I wouldn't sweat the placement of a warp power source on a Class F, really. It may go underfloor or inside the aft machinery wall of the aft compartment, or it may reside in the nacelles. But dilithium is never mentioned in connection with shuttles, and Class F is said to operate on "ion power" in TOS "The Menagerie" anyway, perhaps never annihilating any antimatter at all.
Timo Saloniemi
Shuttlecraft: Warp Drive yes. Two nacelles is evident and nacelles imply warp drive. Power source is an ion power reactor, not a M/AM reactor.
I speculate that an ion fuel is stored in the shuttle fuel tanks and run through a reactor to produce power/energy. I also speculate that the ion fuel may be the same highly charged ion plasma output from the starship's M/AM reactor (i.e. warp plasma). The ion reactor drives the warp engines in the nacelles for interstellar travel between solar systems. The ion reactor also drives its small impulse engine for planetary landings and takeoffs, and most orbital and interplanetary travel. Its fuel is limited, so, range and speed are limited. YMMV
.As for the phaser power to fuel conversion, I further speculate that the phaser beam is more than just pure energy. It could emit highly charged ion particles (particle beam) partially dematerialized and tranported like in a transporter beam. At a low-level charge setting, the ions are transported into a target, and impart its ionic electrical energy in a stun effect (then the depleted ions are possibly transported back out the target so to not leave the nasty ion particles inside the subject. The ion particles may be recycled via recharging the ions inside the phaser). At mid-levels, the ions excite the molecules in the target which heats it up (like a microwave oven). At highest-level charge, the ions disassemble the molecular and maybe even atomic bonds of any mass they hit (then disperse all the matter via a transporter mode into the aether/subspace).
Scotty could have adjusted the phaser to beam its highly charged ion particles directly into the ion reactor since the fuel system was damaged and leaking.
I'm not convinced although then again how else did the shuttlecraft chase the Enterprise in The Menagerie? Maybe it's a limited warp drive or something?
JB
JB
Star Wars had blasters powered by Tibanna gas. Farscape had the pulse pistols powered by Chakan oil
Goes back to the original concept that the warp nacelles were power plants. There wasn't a warp reactor. The engine nacelles produced the power.
Seems like by the TMP/TNG era they are just for the generating of the warp field.
Warp coils are in each nacelle. Warp reactor generates the matter/antimatter energy. The energy combines in the dilithium crystal and creates a plasma stream. That stream is directed into the nacelles where it energizes the warp coils. The energized coils create the warp field
Warp coils are in each nacelle. Warp reactor generates the matter/antimatter energy. The energy combines in the dilithium crystal and creates a plasma stream. That stream is directed into the nacelles where it energizes the warp coils. The energized coils create the warp field
Sort of. They go quite explicit about it in late ENT, really: in "Bound", the Orion women swarm around Kelby, who thinks a good way to impress them is to sprout technobabble that confirms that one first injects matter and antimatter into the dilithium chamber, and that dilithium then controls their annihilation reaction. Supposedly the reaction then energizes the plasma, which isn't necessarily generated in copious amounts, and is fairly seldom vented, too: it just serves as the carrying medium for the somewhat magic energy. And that energy then tickles the magic material of the warp coils into creating a subspace field that, when of the right shape (and perhaps pulsating in just the right way), propels the ship to warp.
One could pack all of that in a nacelle. Or then only put the warp coils there. Kirk's ship in "One Of Our Planets Is Missing" could be kickstarted by placing antimatter in one of the nacelles, but this was an exceptional maneuver - perhaps it normally goes into a central pot in the engineering hull, one that Scotty can then fix or eject all on his own in "That Which Survives".
How much you need to pack in a hand phaser to achieve that other brand of magic is another thing altogether. Although we might rule out the presence of antimatter or dilithium in those, for various indirect reasons and circumstantial lack of evidence and other such handwaving.
Timo Saloniemi
One could pack all of that in a nacelle. Or then only put the warp coils there. Kirk's ship in "One Of Our Planets Is Missing" could be kickstarted by placing antimatter in one of the nacelles, but this was an exceptional maneuver - perhaps it normally goes into a central pot in the engineering hull, one that Scotty can then fix or eject all on his own in "That Which Survives".
How much you need to pack in a hand phaser to achieve that other brand of magic is another thing altogether. Although we might rule out the presence of antimatter or dilithium in those, for various indirect reasons and circumstantial lack of evidence and other such handwaving.
Timo Saloniemi
Most dialogue in TOS strongly indicates that the nacelles (AKA the pods) are the source of power for the ship's propulsion. The term "warp core" is never mentioned but the mixing of matter and antimatter is assumed to take place inside the nacelles, much like an aeroplane.
Dilithium crystals do seem to be a part of the M/AM reaction in TOS but not the dinky crystals or paddles which occasionally show up in the live action episodes - those tend to be used more for ship's system power generation plot points. Instead in TAS' The Terratin Incident we get indications that there are also some bigger, specialised crystals in the nacelles who's sole job it is to be involved with the M/AM reaction:
SCOTT: Engineering. No casualties, Captain, but trouble aplenty with the engines. Every dilithium crystal connection's smashed in the warp engine circuitry. We're trying to bypass them now.
KIRK: What about main circuits?
SCOTT: Well, you have to see it to believe it, sir. Those big crystals in there have come apart. Each of them unpeeling like the rind of an orange.
KIRK: What about main circuits?
SCOTT: Well, you have to see it to believe it, sir. Those big crystals in there have come apart. Each of them unpeeling like the rind of an orange.
That situation is unusual as it seems rare if not unheard of for the "big crystals" to fail - they are different somehow.
With this in mind it is unlikely that the crystals in the shuttle nacelles could be looted for spares in emergencies
Almost. There's still separate fuel supplies for each nacelle, as least on the Runabout which Picard used in Timescape:
LAFORGE: The starboard nacelle just cut out.
DATA: Attitude control has been restored.
PICARD: Full stop. What happened?
LAFORGE: The starboard antimatter pod is completely drained. The fuel reserves are empty.
PICARD: Is there a fuel containment leak?
LAFORGE: No, sir. The containment field is intact. all engine systems are operational. The fuel is just gone.
DATA: Attitude control has been restored.
PICARD: Full stop. What happened?
LAFORGE: The starboard antimatter pod is completely drained. The fuel reserves are empty.
PICARD: Is there a fuel containment leak?
LAFORGE: No, sir. The containment field is intact. all engine systems are operational. The fuel is just gone.
...Which should be an exclusively good thing. They are weapons: if they inflict a lot of hurt, they're just doing their day jobs.
No phaser ever blew up by accident. Some were blown up by the enemy - but when said enemy could also turn you to a toad with a mean look, this isn't a particularly glaring weakness.
Timo Saloniemi
No phaser ever blew up by accident. Some were blown up by the enemy - but when said enemy could also turn you to a toad with a mean look, this isn't a particularly glaring weakness.
Timo Saloniemi
I don't think anyone definitively answered the original question. I know Sulu warmed rocks in The Enemy Within. But, I wasn't sure about Spock's Brain, and I wasn't in the mood to sit through it again. I found screenshots at Trekcore to confirm:
Oops! I didn't mean to break a rule, so I removed the hotlink.
Oops! I didn't mean to break a rule, so I removed the hotlink.
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