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HD TV

Maestro

Vice Admiral
Admiral
So, it's time for us to upgrade to HDTV. We have two HD capable TVs in the house, but we have been too cheap to upgrade until now. We really enjoy movies on the TVs, and we've put up with the jaggies on TV, but with college football soon to be upon us as well as the NFL and college hoops and hockey, the time has come.

We currently have DishNetwork as our satellite provider, and while they've been great to us, we have no feelings of allegiance to them. Although it would be easier to stick with who we have, they don't carry our locals in HD right now.

Who do we go with, DirecTV or DishNetwork, for HD and why?
 
We had DishNetwork and DirecTV HD in our house at the same time for a while but we ultimately decided to go with DirecTV because of their larger channel selection and of course they have NFL Sunday Ticket.

I don't really have any real bad things to say about Dish as far as pricing, customer service or picture quality goes, although I do prefer DirecTV's hardware. The DirecTV HR21 is a nice box.

If you want to do some solid research, check out both companies websites and maybe look at the HDTV programming section at AVS Forum

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=34
 
The other board I'm active on is DBSTalk, the major satellite TV forum. I have DirecTV but I think I can be unbiased.

First, both are good. There is much more in common than there is different. Both offer a lot of HD channels and will give you more in the future. Both are leased systems. They will give you an HD DVR for cheap or free - you'll probably get a DVR free, plus more free stuff, from DirecTV as a current Dish subscriber - but you will be locked into a multi month commitment. It's 24 months with DirecTV. Dish's commitment will be shorter, but it's still there.

Dish's DVR is probably more reliable and works faster. They have been making their own for longer. Their guide is also more accurate. In general, their human engineering is just better.

I like Dish's remote control better.

DirecTV's strength is in their sports programming including the NFL package and more regional sports networks. If you are a real sports fan, DirecTV is your best bet. Of course, this extra programming will cost you more, and in the instance of the NFL Superfan package, a lot more, but if you want it, they've got it.

DirecTV is known as a technically more sophisticated system. In a close comparison, they have a bit better HDTV picture (a dirty little secret is that all HDTV is compressed and Dish's is more compressed than DirecTV's) and are heading in more innovative directions. If you ask DirecTV what they view the company to be in 10 years, it is not a TV service provider. Sure, they will have some of that, but more they see themselves as offering video on demand as their major service. Along with multi-room viewing, which they hint will be with us in maybe a year, DirecTV is the technological leader. By the end of the year maybe we'll also have DirecTV's PC based system. It's in beta test right now with Microsoft. It will turn your computer into a DVR, and you'll be able to distribute that over a home network to your other DVRs.

There is another interesting difference in satellites. Both companies have recently launched new satellites but Dish's is to replace an existing bird while DirecTV's is to give us more HD channels. Right now they are about equal in HD channels offered. DirecTV should take a significant lead here in the next few months. For example, in my small town of LaCrosse, Wisconsin, DirecTV will give me my local networks in HD by the end of the year. I'd be waiting a lot longer for that to happen with Dish.
 
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I'm not sure when Dish will have the Madison locals, but I know that DirecTV has them now.

Small town of LaCrosse... heh, heh... I live in a town of 2500.

It looks like for the next year, DirecTV will be the way to go. In the long term, Dish might be better.

Gotta crunch some numbers and make some phone calls, I guess.
 
I should have said small media market (DMA #127) of LaCrosse. I'm actually in a smaller town, too, of about 300.

In the long run, I don't see DirecTV walking away from their market. They see the market walking way from them. With downloads and VOD (Video On Demand), they foresee the concept of sitting down in front of a TV and channel scanning for something good to watch being less likely.

Here's a video future: you get home from work. You spend 10 minutes in front of your computer, going through a guide of what's available tonight from the off-air and cable networks that evening, highlighting shows you might want to watch. Add onto that a list of movies you've said you might be interested in watching and which have been downloaded over the previous night and day. You then cook dinner, help the kids with their homework and do a couple of chores. It's finally 8:30 PM and you can sit down and watch TV. Your earlier choices have already downloaded onto your computer's hard drive. As you watch them, they are streamed to the DVR hooked up to that particular TV, saving them there to be watched later if you get interrupted by a phone call or a fight between the kids. The next morning, before you go to work, you go back over the previous day's playlist, keeping what you want and deleting what you'll never get back to. You take a first look at the next day's fare and start downloading some of that. When you get home from work, you repeat the whole cycle.

Does this mean you won't watch the Packers live on Sunday afternoon? Of course you will. But this is also a radical reinvention of the way we watch television.
 
Just get cable...

My local cable company is one of 12 in the US going to full Dig... so, i.e. everyone gets a box.. Once they do that then HD to skyrocket. Remember 1 analog dumped means up to 3 HD in it's place.. plus they are looking into 100meg down for there internet once full dig...
 
Just get cable...

My local cable company is one of 12 in the US going to full Dig... so, i.e. everyone gets a box.. Once they do that then HD to skyrocket. Remember 1 analog dumped means up to 3 HD in it's place.. plus they are looking into 100meg down for there internet once full dig...

I get the 3 channel thing with rabbit ears...

Of the ten stations I get, only ETV (PBS) actualy shows three programs at a time.

The major networks just show weather on the other two.

And one local station is not digital at all yet.

Ofcourse, I'm too cheap to pay Time Warner the 80 bucks to get the digital tier.

And the Dish guys want me to cut down three 60 plus year old oak trees to line up the satellite.
 
I just spoke to Dish. $200 to upgrade, they'll wave $50 of it because we've been dual receiver users for 5 years. They'll waive the DVR access fee because we're upgrading both receivers to HD, because we're getting locals (SD until December), and because we've been loyal customers for 5 years.

After the $150 upgrade fee, it's going to cost us $12 a month more than what we're paying now.

For the first year, that will be a little more than the comparable DirecTV package with "new customer discount." After the 12 month discount runs out, it will be significantly
less than DirecTV.

Anybody know if the Dish receivers "upconvert" SD along the same lines as an upconverting DVD player?
 
Anybody know if the Dish receivers "upconvert" SD along the same lines as an upconverting DVD player?
No.

Good deal you got, BTW.


EDIT: I will qualify my "no". You do select the output you want from one of their DVRs, which should match the native resolution of your monitor. For example, if your TV's best resolution is 720p, which is the case with many HD monitors, especially from a few years ago, then you should set the output of the DVR to 720p. If your TV is capable of accepting 1080i, then you select 1080i (Dish, and DirecTV for that matter, recently announced a 1080p VOD option that will be coming, but it is only for VOD downloads). Everything, including your SD broadcasts, will be upconverted to whatever resolution you select. BUT - and this is the crucial BUT - there are no algorithms to try and fill in the missing pixels to make SD broadcasts approach hi-definition, as there would be with a 1080p upconverting DVD player. You won't get any better resolution, and a SD broadcast should look the same whether you've selected 480i, 480p, 720p or 1080i as the output resolution of the DVR. OK?
 
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So, it's going to clear up the picture jaggies and at least make it look better, right?
 
No. It will look like an SD picture, no better and no worse.

It has to be upconverted somewhere, either in the DVR or in the TV itself, to the TV's native resolution. What isn't happening is interprelating the undefined pixels between a 480i picture and 1080p picture. It's just lighting more pixels to fill in the blanks, but not re-creating what is missing.

It's like the old, "three points define a curve" rule I learned in high school drafting. If you had three points and you wanted to connect them, you got out your curve and lined it up on the three points, tracing a nice round path between the three points. That's what the best up-converting DVD players do. They add in information. With your DVR, it is simply drawing straight lines between the three points. Jagged, if you will.

Every HD display is upconverting. Say you have an LCD TV with a native resolution of 1080p. It has to convert the incoming picture, be it an SD picture at 480i, or a regular DVD at 540p, or an ABC HD broadcast at 720p, or even HBO HD at 1080i, to 1080p to display it on the screen. It's just doing it the simpliest way it can.

With your DVR, you're simply doing it inside the DVR instead of inside the TV.

Upconverting is not a be all and end all.

Have you heard of Faroudja? They are an company that makes upscalers that are smarter, adding in information to make the jagged lines into curves, to use my way-oversimplistic analogy above. The best upconverting DVD players use Fraoudja, or other similar intelligent upscaling technology, to improve the picture somewhat, although it will never get to real HD. Neither Dish or DirecTV DVRs or most TVs for that matter, use this kind of technology. It costs money and most companies don't want to pay the licensing fees.

When upthread I said DirecTV is more technically sophisticated than Dish, this is one of those places. A DirecTV DVR has an option called native pass-through. Whatever is the native resolution and screen format of the original picture, it will put that out. A 4:3 picture that's at 480i, which is analog TV and most SD satellite broadcasts, that's what it puts out. A basic off-the-air digital picture, which is 4:3 and 480p, it will pass that through, too. Same thing with HDTV pictures, with an aspect ratio of 16:9 and resolutions of 720p or 1080i. Those will also be passed through unchanged. If you have a smart upscaler later down the stream, and some expensive home theater receivers and televisions do (look for one with DCDi by Faroudja), it will upscale those various different formats to whatever the native resolution of your TV is, which, if you have expensive gear like this, is probably 1080p. You'll get a better picture. A Dish DVR can't do this. It will only output one resolution. It doesn't have native pass-through.

This is all real inside baseball, though, Maestro. We are quickly going to all HDTV. I wouldn't worry about this too much. SD television is SD television, which means it's yesterday's technology. I wouldn't spend too much time or money sweating it.
 
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