HBO's "Westworld", starring Anthony Hopkins/produced by J.J. Abrams

[Mudd]

I don't know why they even bothered with the Old West facade and "narratives"...

The Old West is, among other things, an excellent framework for stories about outsiders coming in, stealing from and killing and raping the inhabitants. It's what the Europeans really did, after all. So it lends itself to that narrative.

 

[Skipper]

The Old West is, among other things, an excellent framework for stories about outsiders coming in, stealing from and killing and raping the inhabitants. It's what the Europeans really did, after all.

Look, I admit that when I was a child decades ago, I enjoyed playing "Cowboys and Indians" for an hour or so. Max. But why a grown man should sleep for days in a hovel without hot water or destroying his back riding just to violate some poor damsel? They can't just do it in the comforts of modern life?

 

[Mudd]

Look, I admit that when I was a child decades ago, I enjoyed playing "Cowboys and Indians" for an hour or so. Max. But why a grown man should sleep for days in a hovel without hot water or destroying his back riding just to violate some poor damsel? They can't just do it in the comforts of modern life?

They get to kill and fuck?

That seems to be the short answer.

People do all kinds of arduous "adventure vacations." One gets the sense that the clientele of Westworld don't find much novelty in endless luxury and pampering, which they likely have at their fingertips every moment of their lives.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

I don't know why they even bothered with the Old West facade and "narratives"...

Both the woman Bernard killed and what's her name said that same thing: "Knock it off with the complex narratives, people just want to have sex and kill things!"

I dunno, if I was there I'd want more of a real story and I'd probably take a more heroic role.

Although if I ever went to a park like that it'd probably be a scifi theme.

 

[Shawnster]

Are all the hosts self aware? I got the impression that Delores would not have sacrificed all those Union soldier hosts if they were self aware like her.

 

[Mudd]

It's an interesting question, how the self-awareness spreads or doesn't. Teddy clearly doesn't have access to all his memories. Without that are they "conscious?"

 

[RJDiogenes]

I was half-joking . It's clear that the guests believed the hosts were just a more advanced version of Disney's animatronics. And, unless the park gathered all the rich psychopaths in the world, I don't believe that everyone was there just for the Rape, Pillage, and Burn... But it's evident that Dolores isn't doing any distinction.

I agree, which is why she's no longer the sympathetic and interesting character she was last season.

I dunno, if I was there I'd want more of a real story and I'd probably take a more heroic role.

Almost all people prefer the heroic role in these types of role-playing games. Ford was clearly a misanthrope. Either that, or the real basis for the show is adolescent cynicism rather than an exploration of what it means to be alive, which would be really disappointing.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Almost all people prefer the heroic role in these types of role-playing games. Ford was clearly a misanthrope. Either that, or the real basis for the show is adolescent cynicism rather than an exploration of what it means to be alive, which would be really disappointing.

Then again, there is the Zimbargo prison experiment, that suggests that people easily conform to whatever role is given to them. And of course, Milgram shock experiments. Most people on their own will empathize with anything that has a face, but put them in a groupthink situation that allows them to dehumanize, they will.

And it's true, people's fantasies are usually heroic, but they also ruthlessly kill all the bad guys and always get sex. Ford's thesis is that people in the park will do exactly what they would do if there were no consequences, and thus 'Discover who they really are'. My counterargument to that would be, people can be made to do anything if the mob seems to think it's okay. Hence, the Holocaust and slavery.

 

[Owain Taggart]

I agree, which is why she's no longer the sympathetic and interesting character she was last season.

Yeah, agreed. It just seems to me like there isn't much of a direction for her. Maybe it will make itself more evident later on, but that's part of why it feels random.

 

[Mudd]

Grand Theft Auto.

 

[BillJ]

Finished the first season tonight. Great show that knows how to do twists and turns.

The Discovery writers could learn a thing or two from Westworld.

 

[Mudd]

Riverworld?

Well, I saw Grace coming the moment they started talking about William's daughter, but I don't guess that was supposed to be a tough one.

There ought to be an Emmy in this for Ed Harris.

 

[DigificWriter]

Just as an FYI reminder, "Grace" is not Katja Herbers' character's actual name; it was an alias created by HBO.

The character's actual name is Emily, and we saw her as a child in episode 2, "Reunion".

 

[Cyrus]

No William last episode, no Dolores this episode.

Did Ford do this copying of human brain to host with Bernard? I guess not otherwise he would assume he is Arnold (but he does remember his dead son) and he doesn't have the instability that Delos had. But was this potential immortality the ultimate goal behind the investment into westworld?

 

[DigificWriter]

^ Ford was not directly involved with the James Delos project, and Hale, William, and the rest of the Delos Corporation board are/were not aware that he even knew about it.

It also seems pretty obvious - based on the timing of all of his machinations - that Ford sent Bernard to print a "human control unit" for himself (Ford) in anticipation of his own death.

Also, speaking of timing, I feel like it needs to be pointed out that the James Delos project had been going on for over two decades, and so 149 resets is really not that much progress.

 

[RJDiogenes]

Then again, there is the Zimbargo prison experiment, that suggests that people easily conform to whatever role is given to them. And of course, Milgram shock experiments. Most people on their own will empathize with anything that has a face, but put them in a groupthink situation that allows them to dehumanize, they will.

Aside from the fact that the experimenter influenced the results (and, in fact, the experiment was designed for a foregone conclusion), those aren't comparable to going on vacation. Most people are not "natural born killers."

And it's true, people's fantasies are usually heroic, but they also ruthlessly kill all the bad guys and always get sex. Ford's thesis is that people in the park will do exactly what they would do if there were no consequences, and thus 'Discover who they really are'. My counterargument to that would be, people can be made to do anything if the mob seems to think it's okay. Hence, the Holocaust and slavery.

Again, a thousand years of cultural norms and post-war trauma cannot be compared to going on vacation. Human history may be full of murder and war, yet here we sit discussing a TV show on the Internet-- civilization would not be possible if the good people didn't outnumber the bad by orders of magnitude.

Yeah, agreed. It just seems to me like there isn't much of a direction for her. Maybe it will make itself more evident later on, but that's part of why it feels random.

Yeah, so far it's just been a mass riot of soldiers versus robots.

 

[Mudd]

All of this copying of Guests and/or staff thus far ignores the show's original premise, which was the challenge of creating consciousness/self-awareness. There's no suggestion that Delos solved this on their side or that Ford yet had, and William has made it graphically clear that he has little interest in and less empathy for android/robot/replicants who merely behave as if they're people.

 

[Mudd]

Herbivores outnumber carnivores, which is pretty important to both. Human history for the most part is not about the migrations of sheep.

 

[bigglesworth]

Grand Theft Auto.

I'm not sure that's an apt comparison. It's nearly impossible not to break the law in GTA. The game is specifically designed to encourage the player to be a criminal and missions built around it. I'm thinking a better comparison would be something like an RPG or quasi-RPG game like the Fallout/Elder Scrolls/Mass Effect series or an MMORPG. In these games, the player has the choice of being the hero or villain.

At least personally I almost always play as the hero. Maybe after I've played the game through 2 or 3 times, I'll play through as a bad guy (and it's fun), but I still prefer the hero role.

 

[Mudd]

So, we know William's daughter's name is Grace because it's on an official website. And you can't walk that back; it's part of canon.

Oh, wait, that's not how this works.